My plans for enrolling in a PhD program got a reality check today. I spoke to a few acquaintances who've gone through doctoral programs and they all said, basically, there's no way in hell I'd be able to complete a PhD program as a single mom, without someone else helping to take care of my son. Even if I do use daycare. So there goes my plan.
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- Post starter Casey_03
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Because, clearly, these friends know everything. :rolleyes:
I know countless single parents in doctoral programs, including medical school (plus interning&residency) which is arguably one of the hardest doctorates out there. Some worse than single parents, but parents in abusive relationships, so not only no help but the person who isn't any help also making shit even harder for them.
Will it be hard?
Of course it will be.
Doctoral programs are hard.
Parenting is hard.
Being hard doesn't mean it's not possible, much less not probable. Doesn't mean you'll be able to do it, not everyone can. Doesn't mean you won't rock out with your cock out, though, either.
<chucking> these friends remind me of oeople who tell me I can't move to a foreign country without knowin the language! Because I'll never be able to make it. :hilarious: As I know you've done that one, too? Figured it might give you a bit of a laugh. Is it harder? Absolutely. Does that mean it's impossible? Pfft.
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Again, put your research skills to use. Universities (& then each of these have stages where the Uni allowed but "hard" programs took several years to follow suit in practice) used to disallow married women from attending, & then disallowed mothers from attending, & then disallowed single mothers from attending (although single fathers got a pass???), & now... They don't disallow anyone by virtue of their personal life. Why? Because come to find what "everyone" thought was true, that married women wouldn't be able to both be a wife AND devote time to their studies & excel, that a mother wouldn't, that a single mother wouldn't... Is all bullshit.
I know countless single parents in doctoral programs, including medical school (plus interning&residency) which is arguably one of the hardest doctorates out there. Some worse than single parents, but parents in abusive relationships, so not only no help but the person who isn't any help also making shit even harder for them.
Will it be hard?
Of course it will be.
Doctoral programs are hard.
Parenting is hard.
Being hard doesn't mean it's not possible, much less not probable. Doesn't mean you'll be able to do it, not everyone can. Doesn't mean you won't rock out with your cock out, though, either.
<chucking> these friends remind me of oeople who tell me I can't move to a foreign country without knowin the language! Because I'll never be able to make it. :hilarious: As I know you've done that one, too? Figured it might give you a bit of a laugh. Is it harder? Absolutely. Does that mean it's impossible? Pfft.
***
Again, put your research skills to use. Universities (& then each of these have stages where the Uni allowed but "hard" programs took several years to follow suit in practice) used to disallow married women from attending, & then disallowed mothers from attending, & then disallowed single mothers from attending (although single fathers got a pass???), & now... They don't disallow anyone by virtue of their personal life. Why? Because come to find what "everyone" thought was true, that married women wouldn't be able to both be a wife AND devote time to their studies & excel, that a mother wouldn't, that a single mother wouldn't... Is all bullshit.
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- #3
I think it would be possible if I had someone, anyone, around to help babysit from time to time. But if it's literally just me? I don't see how it'd be possible to complete all the coursework, work as a TA, and still come home and take care of a toddler. The program I'm looking at (and a few others I've looked at) don't offer daycare services. They connect grad students to daycare services and offer a discounted rate, but it's still at least 50$ a day. I can't afford that. And even if I could, if little man went to daycare during the day when I was in classes or teaching, how on earth would I find the time to complete all my research and coursework when I take him home from campus? I'm already struggling now with a part-time job, and a PhD program would be at least three times as intensive.
MD and PhD programs are hard. No doubt. That being said, with tenacity, it is doable. In my post graduate program, we were paid a low stipend. It was so low that I shared a one bedroom apartment with two others. Yes, we slept in bunk beds in our 20s. We developed a morning routine. One would shower while another would eat, then swap. Then we would wake up the third roommate. We would share things, as roommates do. Waffles for breakfast? First one up made the batter and their waffle. Then as we made our way out of the house in the morning, each of us cooked our own. I had a bike but no car. I didnt eat out a lot, etc.
But we had so many friends. We were all in the same boat. None of us were rich, but it was one of the richest times of my life. I was single, yes, but a majority of my friends did have kids (some of them more than one and a spouse without a work permit to support). Friends go a long way. It was an extended family that we got to pick for ourselves. I did my share of babysitting for friend's kids while they studied for tests, did night shifts, etc. and loved every minute of the distraction.
We didn't have expensive things, but I never felt poor during that time (and I was). I was stressed, for sure, but also focussed on the end product.
Sure, there were rough times. It is not easy. Life isnt easy though with or without he MD or PhD. program (or even the title).
Hindsight is 20/20. I can say this now. If I could go back to any period of time in my life and do it over again, it would probably be this time of my life. I wouldn't go back just because of the degree that I have now, but because the experience, in retrospect, was THAT good.
I will say that if you are the type of person to believe the friends that say it cannot be done, it probably can't. It takes more tenacity than that. If you are a "finisher" that is determined enough to get it done, and has the grades and can get accepted....go for it.
The worst thing is having regrets.
But we had so many friends. We were all in the same boat. None of us were rich, but it was one of the richest times of my life. I was single, yes, but a majority of my friends did have kids (some of them more than one and a spouse without a work permit to support). Friends go a long way. It was an extended family that we got to pick for ourselves. I did my share of babysitting for friend's kids while they studied for tests, did night shifts, etc. and loved every minute of the distraction.
We didn't have expensive things, but I never felt poor during that time (and I was). I was stressed, for sure, but also focussed on the end product.
Sure, there were rough times. It is not easy. Life isnt easy though with or without he MD or PhD. program (or even the title).
Hindsight is 20/20. I can say this now. If I could go back to any period of time in my life and do it over again, it would probably be this time of my life. I wouldn't go back just because of the degree that I have now, but because the experience, in retrospect, was THAT good.
I will say that if you are the type of person to believe the friends that say it cannot be done, it probably can't. It takes more tenacity than that. If you are a "finisher" that is determined enough to get it done, and has the grades and can get accepted....go for it.
The worst thing is having regrets.
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- #5
Thanks. I would like to think that tenacity is all it takes, but am not so sure. One of the professors in the department said basically the same thing -- that considering the workload, it might not be the best idea. The problem is I have no friends to help look after my son. If I had a supportive network of friends like you described, that would work. But without that? I'm really not so sure. I think without a support network, I'd have to severely neglect my kid to get any work done.
scout86
VIP Member
Maybe you could track down a few other grad students with kids and form some kind of childcare coop? I guess it actually wouldn't even have to be grad students, students in general would work.
Also, something to consider is that labor laws and how they pertain to graduate education have changed over the past 2-3 years. Graduate school used to be considered the last legal form of slavery, and this mentality has changed somewhat. There are now overtime laws, etc. that also apply to graduate students. This was not the case previously. It has changed the entire system for better and for worse. In your case this would probably go in your favor as they cannot overwork you as much as times past. Your friends, depending on who they have spoken to or listened to may have somewhat of a skewed perspective.
From a kid who's parents went for an education to provide a 'better' life..it wasn't worth it. It didn't make MY life better ever.
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- #9
Yeah, that's part of my concern. If I go for it, I'll inevitably neglect my kid. If I don't go for it, I don't know how the hell I'll ever be able to afford having a kid and giving him a decent life.
The other issue is money -- I'm not even sure the stipend would be enough to cover all my expenses for my kid. I doubt it would be.
One of the friends I talked to did the same program I want to enroll in, and he had a kid when he was in the program. And a wife. But he ended up having to postpone because he said he couldn't manage it all.
@scout86 The childcare coop might be an idea. I just don't really know where to start. I haven't applied yet, and don't want to until I know for sure I am seriously intending to do the program (I have to take the GRE just to apply, pay a lot of money to my old university to get transcripts released, etc ... there are a lot of obstacles just to apply). But I don't know if I am seriously intending to do the program if I don't know about childcare, finances, etc.
Guess what... none of us had friends when we arrived there. I guess it can be seen somewhat like a battalion in the military in the sense of camaraderie. I realize it isn't life or death, but post graduate friends become battle buddies that you will do anything for (at least this was the case with our group). We arrived at the first day lost and friendless. People were from all over the world! We left as the best of friends who still are in touch years later.
It is a matter of priority.
Have you ever participated in a ropes course? They are sometimes used for team building. There is an exercise called the swinging log. It isnt the fanciest or most dangerous or most exciting thing on the corse, but it drove home a point to me. It's the one I remember the most.
A log is suspended between two poles or trees on ropes, so it swings. The course participant's job is to walk across the swinging log without falling. The thing is, once you take the first step, the log begins to shake and move. Most participants will stop, at which point they lose their balance and fall. The trick to traversing the log is to "commit and go." Once you take the first step, if you dont stop, but take each step after, the log swings with your stride and you make it across.
The point is, you have to commit to go all the way when you start. Thr level of education you are speaking of is the same way. The middle may be shaky, but if you commit, dont stop!
It is a matter of priority.
Have you ever participated in a ropes course? They are sometimes used for team building. There is an exercise called the swinging log. It isnt the fanciest or most dangerous or most exciting thing on the corse, but it drove home a point to me. It's the one I remember the most.
A log is suspended between two poles or trees on ropes, so it swings. The course participant's job is to walk across the swinging log without falling. The thing is, once you take the first step, the log begins to shake and move. Most participants will stop, at which point they lose their balance and fall. The trick to traversing the log is to "commit and go." Once you take the first step, if you dont stop, but take each step after, the log swings with your stride and you make it across.
The point is, you have to commit to go all the way when you start. Thr level of education you are speaking of is the same way. The middle may be shaky, but if you commit, dont stop!
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- #12
I don't think I can commit to moving my kid to another state just in the hopes that I will find friends who will help take care of him. Sure, maybe I would make friends who would help, but maybe I wouldn't. And then what? Then I've relocated to another state, yet again, for a program that I fail out of because I have to tend to my kid instead of doing the coursework. I find it really difficult to commit to anything when all I have to go on is hope. That's basically what got me into my current situation. I moved back from overseas with the belief my family would be more involved (they did say they would be). But they're not. So why would I trust complete strangers in a grad program to help me? I do see your point, I guess I'm just too cynical to commit to something without a surefire plan. (To be fair, my whole life has been what you described -- commiting to tasks that require tenacity and a strong will. And that has gotten me absolutely nowhere)
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