SGT.Sunshine.
Silver Member
Sorry I just got the south park plug, haha what no log ride? :LOL:
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Woman In Combat Arms...
- Post starter combatgoldfish
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Hey SGT
Yeah, me too. I had a friend that was stationed in Saigon. He worked in an air conditioned office, went to the em club at night and to the pool on weekends. War is strange. How some are bustin' their butts and others have a nice ride. Can't fault anyone who's had it that way.
No, no log ride. Except feeling like I was wipin' my arse with bark. :ROFLMAO:
Jar
This thread is a bit old but I am still just reading through some interesting topics I find.
I would just like to point out that women have been in combat before this. I was in my unit based on a technicality because my MOS was considered support. Shortly before we deployed, I was moved from a support battalion to an armored one. I was the only female in my unit. I was one of five in the whole battalion, the rest lived across the street and served the HQ. I still had to go out on missions and do "man's work." At one point there was a stir about any females being there and I was told by my NCOs about the technicality BS. In hindsight, I should have kicked and screamed and demanded that I be reassigned. 99% of the guys were dicks to me, talking all kinds of shit about me constantly. Yet, on guard duty, they were real quick to try to f*ck me. Assholes. I had less than a handful of "friends." I was very isolated. When assigned battle buddies; I was automatically f*cking mine, according to them, because we hung out. It was miserable.
In the end, when shit hit the fan, I had to get out there right along side those miserable bastards and do what needed to be done. If a woman wants to sign up as infantry, or the like, let them. I think we all know that it doesn't matter whether you are on a FOB or out on patrol. It doesn't matter what your MOS is. We were all taught to be a soldier first, MOS second. We all get shot, mortared, IED'd, etc. all the same.
The irony of all this is that I have always gotten along with guys much better than other chics. The short time I was in my support battalion I witnessed a few prissy bitches that pissed me off to no end. Afraid to get their hands dirty, etc. But if they think they have the balls to be out there in the thick of shit, so be it. I wouldn't sign up for it. On the other hand, the guys in my unit were just a bunch of bitches anyway. (No bitterness here :p )
I would just like to point out that women have been in combat before this. I was in my unit based on a technicality because my MOS was considered support. Shortly before we deployed, I was moved from a support battalion to an armored one. I was the only female in my unit. I was one of five in the whole battalion, the rest lived across the street and served the HQ. I still had to go out on missions and do "man's work." At one point there was a stir about any females being there and I was told by my NCOs about the technicality BS. In hindsight, I should have kicked and screamed and demanded that I be reassigned. 99% of the guys were dicks to me, talking all kinds of shit about me constantly. Yet, on guard duty, they were real quick to try to f*ck me. Assholes. I had less than a handful of "friends." I was very isolated. When assigned battle buddies; I was automatically f*cking mine, according to them, because we hung out. It was miserable.
In the end, when shit hit the fan, I had to get out there right along side those miserable bastards and do what needed to be done. If a woman wants to sign up as infantry, or the like, let them. I think we all know that it doesn't matter whether you are on a FOB or out on patrol. It doesn't matter what your MOS is. We were all taught to be a soldier first, MOS second. We all get shot, mortared, IED'd, etc. all the same.
The irony of all this is that I have always gotten along with guys much better than other chics. The short time I was in my support battalion I witnessed a few prissy bitches that pissed me off to no end. Afraid to get their hands dirty, etc. But if they think they have the balls to be out there in the thick of shit, so be it. I wouldn't sign up for it. On the other hand, the guys in my unit were just a bunch of bitches anyway. (No bitterness here :p )
I have never had an issue with women in combat.
However, I have an issue with women who are integrated in units. During garrison times this works. During deployments it doesn't work as well. For the very reason Loca mentions with her experience.
During GW1 female troop pregnancy was the main reason for a 3 times higher non-deployment rate.
I'm not trying to be sexist. I just think it causes issues with unit cohesion.
However, I have an issue with women who are integrated in units. During garrison times this works. During deployments it doesn't work as well. For the very reason Loca mentions with her experience.
During GW1 female troop pregnancy was the main reason for a 3 times higher non-deployment rate.
I'm not trying to be sexist. I just think it causes issues with unit cohesion.
dutchiedelta
Platinum Member
Girls used to get up the duff like clockwork to get out from under conscripton. Just marrying would be enough to get out.
Someone once said he got distracted by the women around him. That in combat he'd have the urge to protect them.
Might be true. Might also be true he's interested to protect the ones he's interested in.
By that same reasoning he was against homosexuals in the army. Cos they'd be distracted to safe their favo's. (really please no discussion on that, it was just an example to follow his point.)
Flawed thinking me thinks and a view into the mind of some.
I would also say the idea of non-integrated units appeals to me.
For safety there'd be a few guys always but think of the famous well-running all female Kurdish army.
Respect to those girls.
Someone once said he got distracted by the women around him. That in combat he'd have the urge to protect them.
Might be true. Might also be true he's interested to protect the ones he's interested in.
By that same reasoning he was against homosexuals in the army. Cos they'd be distracted to safe their favo's. (really please no discussion on that, it was just an example to follow his point.)
Flawed thinking me thinks and a view into the mind of some.
I would also say the idea of non-integrated units appeals to me.
For safety there'd be a few guys always but think of the famous well-running all female Kurdish army.
Respect to those girls.
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I totally agree Jar. If you can hack it all, you deserve the respect and the chance.
I totally agree as well.
Only thing I disagree with is co-ed integration. I see morale problems developing. I think the U.S.M.C is doing a trial of this in the next year or so. Should be an interesting study.
Friday
Sponsor
Ooh-Rah.
They've been flirting with that since at least the 90s, when I was in, Grizz. Female crew chiefs (including SERE and all training co-ed from MCT onward), door gunners, S&R, EAF/ATC, etc. in the airwing. Couple girlfriends were radio operators attached to 0311. I spent half my time in school it felt like, cause they were always changing which MOSs women could have. We've been around the edges, integrated on the sly, for a long time. If they're willing to make a goal of it, for real, sounds like there's probably been more successes than failures over the past 2 decades.
Cynical side of me says the test is gonna fail hard, but they'll get stubborn about it, and keep it running. First in. Last out.
They've been flirting with that since at least the 90s, when I was in, Grizz. Female crew chiefs (including SERE and all training co-ed from MCT onward), door gunners, S&R, EAF/ATC, etc. in the airwing. Couple girlfriends were radio operators attached to 0311. I spent half my time in school it felt like, cause they were always changing which MOSs women could have. We've been around the edges, integrated on the sly, for a long time. If they're willing to make a goal of it, for real, sounds like there's probably been more successes than failures over the past 2 decades.
Cynical side of me says the test is gonna fail hard, but they'll get stubborn about it, and keep it running. First in. Last out.
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I agree Friday. And I really think that there are many issues to cause disruption to an effective combat unit with regards to gender integration.
It being done in non-combat MOS units for for years now. But there is still fraternization from command down. Even though most fraternization is a violation of UCMJ, it's very difficult to enforce. It still affects unit cohesion and combat readiness.
It being done in non-combat MOS units for for years now. But there is still fraternization from command down. Even though most fraternization is a violation of UCMJ, it's very difficult to enforce. It still affects unit cohesion and combat readiness.
Friday
Sponsor
To be fair, I think women are the hardest on other women. Way back in MCT it was this totally rude wakeup. Out of 110 in our platoon, I trusted 3 by the end of it. There were probably 12 I could have trusted, but I hadn't learned yet not to give a f*ck if I liked someone or not if they could do the job. Once we were out and about, though? Not a lot of us out there, and most were solid. Thrilled to see them, grab your trash lets go, solid. But I never quite got over my "Oh f*ck no," initial response to whining and slacking. Don't know if it's changed, but every time I ran into another chick in the field, there was this initial / ongoing size up. And it was always way more harsh than the washout tricks the boys ran. Cause it's not just can you do the job, but can you do it without being obnoxious or making my life in any way harder by reminding my guys women are nuts now that I've finally gotten them over it? Not that proving yourself ever gets old, or anything.
As far as frat goes... I know everyone handles things differently. We just kept it simple: unless everyone is getting laid, no one is, and we can all be pissed off and cranky together. We were small crews & fire teams, though. That rule never works with more than a dozen or so. And we were short hops, mostly.
As far as frat goes... I know everyone handles things differently. We just kept it simple: unless everyone is getting laid, no one is, and we can all be pissed off and cranky together. We were small crews & fire teams, though. That rule never works with more than a dozen or so. And we were short hops, mostly.
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I can't really say whether I am for or against integrated units.
The guys I was with created an extremely immature, high school type atmosphere. Most of those guys joined up right out of high school and I was already married with kids. Maybe that is why we didn't get along, I don't know. Half of me says that people, no matter what sex, should just get over themselves and should be able to respect each other no matter what. The other half of me knows that it isn't that simple.
When we first got to Iraq I had to live with this other chic for a short time, before we all got situated. The bitch left a used tampon applicator on MY little dresser thing - plastic stack of drawers. I ended up putting my hands on her and I probably should have gotten in trouble. It quickly got swept under the rug, I think, because the NCOs either empathized with me or just didn't want to deal with it. It might have helped me a little bit at that time that they were all men. lol My point is I don't think it would have been any easier with just women.
When I joined I thought I would find that commodore that you see in movies. What I found were just a bunch of people worried about whose dick was bigger. I hope that my case was special and the Army isn't full of a bunch of childish pricks. I think we all know the truth about that though.
The guys I was with created an extremely immature, high school type atmosphere. Most of those guys joined up right out of high school and I was already married with kids. Maybe that is why we didn't get along, I don't know. Half of me says that people, no matter what sex, should just get over themselves and should be able to respect each other no matter what. The other half of me knows that it isn't that simple.
When we first got to Iraq I had to live with this other chic for a short time, before we all got situated. The bitch left a used tampon applicator on MY little dresser thing - plastic stack of drawers. I ended up putting my hands on her and I probably should have gotten in trouble. It quickly got swept under the rug, I think, because the NCOs either empathized with me or just didn't want to deal with it. It might have helped me a little bit at that time that they were all men. lol My point is I don't think it would have been any easier with just women.
When I joined I thought I would find that commodore that you see in movies. What I found were just a bunch of people worried about whose dick was bigger. I hope that my case was special and the Army isn't full of a bunch of childish pricks. I think we all know the truth about that though.
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