"suicide is murder in the 180th degree"

[Dana1010]

Edwin Shneidman, a psychologist who spent his career studying suicide, said, "Suicide is murder in the 180th degree."

I haven't had time to dig deeper into his work. Is he saying that suppressed aggression leads to suicidal urges? Does thwarted aggression cause me to hate myself? I feel that were I to aggress successfully against you-know-who, I would feel some satisfaction in the moment. But I think even then I would eventually come back to hating myself for who I am.

What does this quote mean to you?

 

[Neverthesame]

I think it's an offensive, backwards way to explain suicide in a way that does nothing to aid anyone who's suffering is great enough for them to be contemplating such a drastic action.

Instead it simply paints them as bad people.

Look! Look! At these cowards. Who are so pitiful they can't even kill someone else, they have to themselves. Look how pathetic they are!
What terrible people they must be. f*cking cowards! Murderers all! Everyone point and shun them!

That's what it says to me. I think it's f*cking bullshit.
Pissed me right off, is that quote did... Yup. Definitely pissed off.

 

[Deleted member 541]

I don't agree with this at all. I don't think that people that kill themselves or attempt it are cowards at all. I believe that it takes courage to actually decide to do this. Suicide is murder?????????? Must have been a f*cking religious nut job that wrote it.

 

[Tornadic Thoughts]

Murder is taking a life. Suicide is taking a life. The reasons behind each are the only thing that seem to separate the two acts, as suicide, to me, is definitely viewed as more of a mercy killing than it is a murder. I don't see where you mentioned that he said anything about those who choose suicide being cowards and such, unless I misread. Apologies if that's the case.

To me, suppression of emotions in ALL forms can potentially lead to wanting to end your own life if gone unattended, unreleased, etc.. It certainly has for me multiple times. What we try to keep hidden and out of sight eventually comes to light in some form or another via some type of symptom. I've had family members who followed through with ending theirs, along with other friends and acquaintances, so I've lived through it on both ends of the spectrum.

Language and certain words tends to automatically plant our preconceived notions firmly into place, immediately, without giving us much time to process, so it definitely trips a few triggers in the wording.

In my mind, suicide seems to be most often viewed as being the only way out after trying every other way possible and having no energy or means left to try anything else. Almost as if we feel we'll be doing the world a favor. Even if the world views it quite differently. Perhaps he's saying it's a murderous act, but to a much greater degree, as once you commit this one, there's absolutely no opportunity to ever go back and make any changes or make anything better, hence having it be to a greater degree?

Who knows, really? Is he still living? Can you email him and ask him directly?

 

[Tinyflame]

I think such a comment indicates a woeful lack of understanding. If anything, an ability to handle the aggression of others better I would think would be a somewhat protective factor. JMHO.

ETA I just realized, 'thank you' to Neverthesame , as I don't have the 'anger/ ~aggression-??' to respond that way, made me more shamed of myself (than anything, to read it). So thank you @Neverthesame . :hug:

 

[Dana1010]

I don't see where you mentioned that he said anything about those who choose suicide being cowards and such, unless I misread.

I don't think he was implying that it was cowardly. Like I said, I have not read his works. He is thought to be the father of the study of suicide and a founder of suicide prevention organization(s).

Perhaps he's saying it's a murderous act, but to a much greater degree, as once you commit this one, there's absolutely no opportunity to ever go back and make any changes or make anything better, hence having it be to a greater degree?

He is no longer living. I am pretty sure that he meant that it starts with some type of rejection or hindering of the pleasure principal or libido, etc. The response to this is aggression towards the person hindering. If that aggression is not acted out, it starts to turn inward toward the individual. This is my (somewhat) educated guess.

It makes some sense to me. If you can't get what you want out of life, the infantile part of you would love to kick and scream at whoever or whatever is withholding it from you until they gave in. If this is not possible, then you are forced to dwell in unfulfilled desire and rage until you want to end it.