Therapist said someone can't just ask for help, it has to happen naturally? huh?

[Justmehere]

My therapist and I talked about some friends I know through a faith community that are asking me for advice on how on they can support other people with PTSD.

I'm struggling because when I told two people in this circle of friends about my own diagnosis a few years ago it did not go well. Now I don't tell any of them at the faith community about any of it. I don't talk about it. It's off limits. (Please don't tell me how terrible faith communities can be, or that I should leave mine. I know they screw up at times/way too much and the reasons I stay are complex.)

I have developed (apparently) a reputation for being a safe person who knows how be friends with others who are struggling with "big" things and they say I seem to know a lot about trauma and how to help people who have been traumatized... so they are asking me.

I told her I was angry these friends want to be there for someone else, but there was no one there for me.

She told me that people can't just approach a group of friends and ask for help like another person is doing within this faith community. It has to happen naturally. I asked what she meant but she didn't really explain it in a way I understood.

I told her that at some point I want to address that this group wasn't there for me in a safe and healthy way, and those problems still exist and need to be addressed.

She kept telling me they won't be there for you. Someone will be someday but it's not them. I mean yeah... but they are asking me how they can be there for people...

And then the session was over.

Any thoughts about what she might talking about?

 

[Tornadic Thoughts]

A healing practitioner once shared with me, "You can't take someone else to place you haven't been to yet yourself. You can certainly offer space and verbal support when you feel comfortable doing so, but remain very mindful of taking on things that will likely weigh you down much more than you'll be able to lift another up."

Not sure if that adds any clarity, but it's what I thought of if I were in your shoes. It sounds like they need someone to help all the folks they don't feel "qualified" enough to help based on their direct life experience, so they'd rather have someone who has experienced deeper depths of despair to take it on, instead, not taking into account the day-to-day wellness maintenance that goes into living with ptsd and such, and remaining totally oblivious to leaving you hanging when you reached out.

I'd tread very cautiously and not accept what you don't feel comfortable taking on. The resentment will eventually smother you and what you're trying to do for them, I would think.

 

[Deleted member 541]

I’m going to ramble a bit... LOL!!!! The two people that you told about your diagnose, apparently they are not on the level that you are. They can not be supportive, and yet look to you to give support. I guess that you have taken on the role of “caregiver” to those in need and everyone sees you as the strong one that they can lean on. You are not the one that they see needs help. Sad, but it may be true.

I’m very much stable on a day to day basis. I hide what symptoms I do have very well. You know, it’s that facade that most of us carry so well. So I’m going to assume that you are very much that way. On the forum you project a very level headed, calm, and reassuring tone, even when you post that you are having a rough go at it. So I think people may see you as that kind of person in real life. The one they seek out to help, not the one in need.

I’m sorry that you got dissed and it hurt, but I think that your therapist is right, in that they may never give you the support that you need unles you are in a real crisis.

I think to address the issue now, it won’t go well. They may be shits and not recognize that you need help, but we will always be here because we all know just how hard it can be at times....

 

[scout86]

I'm confused. The same people who were not there for YOU now want you to tell them how they can be there for someone else?

I'm not sure what your T means. My thought is, you can ask for help all you want, but relatively few people actually have the capacity to be helpful. And you know, now that I think about it, the whole "how do I help someone with PTSD?" thing annoys me. It's not a good question because the actual answer is something like "that depends". Life is not a cookbook. It's much messier than that.

 

[MP7]

My therapist and I talked about some friends I know through a faith community that are asking me for...

I got you. So I’m a Christian and believe in God. However, since going to war and back it’s really hard to engage in my faith community. I tried to engage, but since we moved around so much, up until I left the military, it’s akways been hard to trust them and be trusted in return when most people have never experienced trauma as we have on any level.

Last church we went to the new member speaker told those seeking membership his testimony and it was about how he was rich, lost it all fighting the Irs and then got it back. I know people have their own struggles which are painful to them, but coming up poor then seeing war, all I could think was “you got to be kidding with this guy...”

What I’ve done since is use stories to disassociate myself with the explanation to those who want to help. They are my stories but I’m telling them as if about some guy I knew and what he needed to hear.... or how to help. Innocent people thank me and move on thinking me wise. Those who’ve had trauma will ask later on if that was me and when I say yes... I can then truly relate and they will then truly listen...

Oh and faith wise... you gotta forgive them and move on. This sucks hard,.. took me months to forgive my pastor for his comments to a situation but when I did I could sleep better. Taught me to be careful about what I tell to whom... it’s finny before you experience anything most people are relatable and can trust almost immediately. Afterwards not so much... appreciate this forum. Don’t feel quite alone anymore...

 

[Deleted member 37474]

I understand the resentment or anger you may have felt. My husband did the same thing to me. He wanted me to help and convince his friend to go to therapy and tell him how it helped me. My husband was sooo concerned for his friend and had never shown that much compassion and understanding to what I had been going through. (That part has been improving). It is hard to accept how clueless people can be about their on hypocrisy.

 

[Justmehere]

This all makes a lot more sense now. Thanks everyone!

I'd tread very cautiously and not accept what you don't feel comfortable taking on. The resentment will eventually smother you and what you're trying to do for them, I would think.

I think I needed this reminder. I am mad. I didn't think I was. I have to set the boundaries to not resent them by trying to change them. I think you are quite right about their resistance to doing ones own work too. Being there in a healthy way when someone is going through some of this stuff requires many people to look at their own stuff too. Much of humanity does not want to do that unless they really have to do that.

I'm confused. The same people who were not there for YOU now want you to tell them how they can be there for someone else?

Yep. Exactly.

I have told them I'm willing to sit with them and the person they want to help, if and only if the other person is ok with it, to talk through how to be supportive for this very reason.

I have told them I'm not willing to do it without the person included in the conversation. They are telling me they need to do it without them and want me to be someone they can go to if they need advice how to handle the person down the road too and how to help be more welcoming to people generally.

I want to slap them with a fish.

They do say, "we don't know why people who are hurting don't reach out more." I have a few thoughts on that. Volumes actually. But it would be me explaining why *I* don't reach out. There is no recognition of "we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past."

My therapist is glad I'm saying no to "well meaning but triangulated" communication. She says I'm modeling with them how they need to respond to the person too.

They are doing better with this person, much better by all accounts, and they are willing to listen and hear me out, and that makes it hard for me to write them off.

They are not cruel people. I wouldn't hang with them if they were. When I went through an easy-to-understand physical health issue, they were amazing about it. I don't know what I would have done without them.

They don't have a lot of experience or information on how to handle things with mental health though, like at all...

When I reached out years ago, they scapegoated me. My therapist said to me to stay the caretaker this time around, not the scapegoat, but stay distant.

You know, it’s that facade that most of us carry so well. So I’m going to assume that you are very much that way. On the forum you project a very level headed, calm, and reassuring tone, even when you post that you are having a rough go at it. So I think people may see you as that kind of person in real life. The one they seek out to help, not the one in need.

This is very kind of you to say! I'm not sure how I come across offline. People say I can be calm in a crisis... but it's like work or other people's crisises. And sometimes I do fall apart about all that, but I try to do the falling apart when I'm alone. Not saying this is healthy... I can be quite the frazzled mess, if I reach out for help myself. When I don't... people do come to me a lot more than I ever go to anyone else.

I want to be able to go to people offline for help, even a listening ear, a moment of encouragement. I think that's why my therapists words kind of hurt in a way.

@MP7 - I do have to forgive, and I have to work through my fear, which is fueling my resentment and confusion. Argh. This is so hard to do right now.

@TexCat - I remember that hapoening qith your husband! I'm glad he is becoming more compassionate.

I did end up talking to one friend, and said I scared they would gossip about this person with good intentions but hurtful outcomes - I'm still wrestling with hurt and consequences ofbwell meaning gossip about me. I probably said too much, but to her credit, she handled my words with grace and said she would take my caution to her to heart. She's the one that I disclosed to that handled it well, and she handled this moment well to. I don't think she quite gets it, but she at least listened.

Now I'm trying to let it go and take space, and accept it all is what it is.

Relationships are messy.

Thanks all for helping me process this through.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

My husband was sooo concerned for his friend and had never shown that much compassion and understanding to what I had been going through. (That part has been improving). It is hard to accept how clueless people can be about their on hypocrisy.

Well spoken. I think we all have blind spots, it is amazing that any of us are able to work on ourselves and see our own hypocrisy if we have it. I have a really hard time with people that have led sheltered lives because of this lack of awareness due to lack of experience in my opinion. Unless a person has experienced the same thing, there can be no true understanding because they lack the experience which is the true teacher in my opinion. How can anyone know how a thing feels unless they have gone through that themselves. We are all so complex.

 

[Justmehere]

Unless a person has experienced the same thing, there can be no true understanding because they lack the experience which is the true teacher in my opinion. How can anyone know how a thing feels unless they have gone through that themselves. We are all so complex.

I almost agree with this - maybe my thinking is off though?

Experience is one heck of a teacher! When I'm with other trauma survivors, there are some understandings that I just don't have with others. It's like s common language of experience.

But two caveats -

First, even when someone has gone through a smilliar experience, their experience is theirs and usually has some differences.

Second, in faith communities... if relationship and community comes together to support someone only if everyone has been through the same level or type of pain in life and totally understand it, the whole thing is sunk. Maybe I am too idealistic, but I'm not sure actually how it would work any other way. I mean people either stay shallow, or they get real. And then the differences pop up. I have a friend who has a mental health issue that is totally different than mine, but we have a deep bond and have both reached out to each other. But then maybe the understanding of being in the recovery phase of life is there? I dunno.

I also think of those I know in this faith community who have trauma histories of their own, have told me about it, are in a good place now - or so they say - and yet were part of handling my own diagnosis terribly and gossiped about me and were kind of jerks to me. Same experiences, very different responses.

 

[MP7]

I understand the resentment or anger you may have felt. My husband did the same thing to me. He wanted...

Thank you for sharing @TexCat , how did your husband change and become more understanding? I find my emotions are hard to touch after the military... to the point where I fake emotions I know I should be feeling so I don’t seen to callous as much.... personally, I know my wife puts up with my issues, and intellectually I understand she has stressers, but it’s hard for me to feel compassion for her. I sound hard saying that to my own ears, but it’s truth and I want to get back to a semblance of normal...

 

[Deleted member 12723]

yet were part of handling my own diagnosis terribly and gossiped about me and were kind of jerks to me. Same experiences, very different responses.

I would use caution with these individuals. But that is just me, been there, done that, hated what happened to me and to my family to make a long story short.

 

[Justmehere]

@Rain - yeah, I'm actually questioning if I should be friends with them. I don't like that I have to be soooo ultra guarded about one part of my life with them.