Copy-cat

[ShodokanJenn]

SO, there is this person who I care about, that I've known for years. She is kind, compassionate, generous, selfless... I would call her a genuinely *good* person. Her father was, according to her, "an amazing man and father, except for when he wasn't." He committed incest with her, his only daughter. She went out to develop PTSD.

I've been aware of her symptoms and history since very soon after we met, but it's only been over the past 18 months or so that she's known anything about mine. (PTSD, victim of ritual, sexual, physical, emotional abuse as a child)

Yes, there are some common threads/themes in our lives - I think that the same is true for pretty much any two people on the planet. But the reality is, our symptoms, personalities, strengths, weaknesses, beliefs, experiences, and histories are vastly different.

When I first shared a tiny bit with her, it was with the sole purpose of helping her to feel a little less alone (not that we are the same, but to form a connection based on empathy) and also to encourage her to start therapy. It worked.

But over time, it started to feel like she was trying too hard to find similarities between us, and always comparing us (comparing rarely seems to produce a positive outcome). It progressed to the point that I can't stand to tell her anything at all.

Everything I say is answered with, "Me too. We are exactly the same!" That's not a paraphrase, it's a direct quote. A frequently repeated phrase. If she asks how I'm feeling, and I say I'm in pain from my endometriosis, she answers, "Me too,we are exactly the same." Which she may well be in pain, but she doesn't have endometriosis. She's been examined for it laporoscopically. So, it's NOT the same.

I am working on finding a balance between protecting myself from the I validation I feel when she says these things and not allowing avoidance to determine my actions. And I'm working on sorting out why exactly this statement/attitude bothers me SOOOOO much.

Part of it is the feelings of invalidation. Part of it is feeling misunderstood. Part of it is not wanting to be the same as her - there are plenty qualities in her that I do NOT want to have in myself.

I'm not saying I am better than her. But my list of problems and negative qualities and traits is already long enough without adding hers to it, too. Part of it is pure frustration with the fact that she truly doesn't understand me or my experiences (though I'm not very open with her, so expecting understanding is probably not reasonable).

If someone said the same thing to you when you knew that even in just the one way being referred to at that moment was NOT actually the same between the two of you, how would you feel? What would you say? Do? Would it make you hesitant to share in the future?

 

[EveHarrington]

Me too! We are EXACTLY the same!

Ok, so the first part is true, the second part, not so much.

I’ve had people reply with the “me too!” line and it never sits well with me. It feels like A) this isn’t a club where membership is gained by a common experience so don’t be so excited.....and B) I was sharing this big thing to get some kind of support and validation.....saying “me too!!!!” isn’t really supportive and is actually invalidating because it feels like a lie.

When I get the “me too” response, it’s an indicator that I shouldn’t be sharing with that person in the future because it doesn’t feel safe.

It’s possible your friend doesn’t want to feel alone. But, she’s going about it in the wrong way.

 

[Deleted member 44579]

Hi @ShodokanJenn....she I think is having a hard time realising what her dad did was wrong... And

On some level is scared, confused, brainwashed and overwhelmed.

I think she is struggling... Really struggling and when well done for helping her. She's at the start of her therapy and I'm guessing your further along. If you can.... Just let her express herself... If however she is being nasty to you then that changes things.

I really think she is trying to relate..... Desperately so... Which is very sad.... I understand why you are pissed off... You have really help her... And she needs your friendship...

 

[Deleted member 8714]

If someone said the same thing to you ... was NOT actually the same between the two of you, how would you feel? What would you say? Do? Would it make you hesitant to share in the future?

I had a friendship similar to yours. Emphasis on HAD. I severed the relationship because no matter what it wasn't healthy. I wanted to believe it would somehow get better. She was a narcissist and tried to one up me all the time. I didn't discover her narcissism until later in the relationship. We had known each other for over 6 years by then. I just never picked up on it. My mother was a narcissist so I was drawn to that type of person.

She asked me about what happened to me and I told her. No details. I'm a survivor of satanic ritual abuse (SRA), ritual abuse (RA), mind control (MC), physical abuse, psychological/mental/emotional abuse, and sexual abuse by my father. She never heard of the SRA and RA and MC before so she was intrigued and that's why I shared what happened to me. Later she shared her abuse with me. She was always comparing hers with mine and saying to me often "Me too." That later turned into nasty jabs toward me on certain sensitive subjects. She wanted to hurt me.

As time went on she asked me not to share as much yet she wanted to share whatever she wished about herself and abuse. I told her no. That wasn't fair. I told her not to share her stuff either. She didn't like that at all. That was the first boundary which signaled the end of our relationship.

I like @EveHarrington 's answers. Good ones in this situation.

 

[Friday]

Fawning makes my teeth itch.

I am not your abuser, stop treating me like one.
I am not responsible for you, stop trying to make me be.
I am not a saint, take me off the damn pedestal.

 

[Sideways]

Yup, the invalidation of the “me too”, together with the fact that they’ve just taken a (rare) offer of personal details from me, and made it instantly into something about them. Worse than irritating.

Thing is that while it seems to come from a space of them wanting to share and build a friendship (which is when I’ve experienced it), what are they actually doing? It may be too tough to call it flat out lying, but when we very obviously aren’t exactly the same? Saying “me too” is dishonest, because No, not them too. Not them too at all.

So, in apparently trying to build rapport and common ground, they’ve invalidated my statement, insisted on making my stuff into their stuff (cringing at the “It’s all about me” factor), and been dishonest with me (and probably themselves) in one short statement. Ick.

 

[ShodokanJenn]

When I get the “me too” response, it’s an indicator that I shouldn’t be sharing with that person in the future because it doesn’t feel safe.

It’s possible your friend doesn’t want to feel alone. But, she’s going about it in the wrong way.

@EveHarrington Thank you. You have said it how I feel - I shouldn't be sharing with her in the future because it doesn't feel safe. I forgot (as usual) that it's okay to pay attention to my own feelings and needs, and act in my own best interest.

I really think she is trying to relate..... Desperately so... Which is very sad.... I understand why you are pissed off... You have really help her... And she needs your friendship...

@Xena thank you. I think part of the issue on my end is that she is so very needy. I can either help her with most of these needs, or I can be the *buddy* she claims to want. I can't be both.

My 'helper mode' and my 'buddy mode' are not compatible. I'm not referring to things like support, listening, and such. I'm talking about she desperately needs someone to fight for her at the clinic, both for mental health and for physical health. Someone needs to convince her to stop trusting her half-retired GP with prescribing her psych meds (he has her on five - yes five - antidepressants, each one supposedly for a specific symptom, plus 4mg Ativan a day prn; the cognitive and physical side effects are staggering) , and see a psychiatrist. Someone needs to make her get up off the couch and leave the house (she'll go weeks at a time without doing so).

I can do those things, and I will... But if I do, then we aren't going to sit around having a buddy-buddy relationship. And instead of looking for ways our pasts and our current situations are identical, she'd be far better off looking for ways she can take steps to improve her situation.

I had a friendship similar to yours. Emphasis on HAD. I severed the relationship because no matter what it wasn't healthy.

@Congruency Yeah. I'm enforcing my own boundaries here. I'm not perfect. I have active, severe PTSD. Mine is caused by extreme SRA, RA, brain-washing/mind control, extreme sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, abandonment...

These aren't things I will ever discuss in-depth with her. If I were to try to explain some of the hold-over distorted cognition I have from the mental programming (best words I can think of to describe it) and she said, "Me too!" it would take all of my self control to not utterly explode.

I don't want to abandon her... She desperately needs help, and I am able and willing to do a lot of what she needs. But, I think the buddy-buddy stuff may need to be over. It's not fair to me, to feel like anything I say will be responded to with a typically inaccurate "me too." And it's not fair to her to have a buddy who is afraid to even answer a simple "How are you?"

Fawning makes my teeth itch.

... Take me off the damn pedestal.

Mine too, @Friday Thank you for putting a name to what she's doing. And yes, she definitely has me on a pedestal. She wants me up there. She considers herself to be considerably lower. And yet, she wants me to see her as exactly the same as me. I don't WANT to be friends with my clone. Sure, shared experiences are great, but I choose my friends because they are NOT me.

So, in apparently trying to build rapport and common ground, they’ve invalidated my statement, insisted on making my stuff into their stuff (cringing at the “It’s all about me” factor), and been dishonest with me (and probably themselves) in one short statement. Ick.

@Ragdoll Circus Yes. This. Exactly. I'm all good with "I've had something similar happen to me" or "I feel that way too" but with her, it's never that. You put into words what I've been trying to sort out. Thank you.

 

[Friday]

I don't want to abandon her...

You can only abandon kids & pets.

Everyone else can take care of themselves. They might not want to, but they can.

Spoiler: long version

You can only abandon kids, pets, & those under fire.

^^^
I don't use that version out in civilian land much, because people get all metaphorical about it, and it's not. You walk away from kids, pets, and people being shot at and you're leaving them to die.

Speaking as someone who was left to die, and who has left others to die, I had abandonment issues in spades, for a long time. And they still crop up from time to time. I have to very forcefully remind myself that this in now, not then, and I'm not leaving anyone to die. They're not kids. They're not pets. And no one is trying to kill them. It is a mark of respect that I do not treat them as such.

It's still hard, sometimes.