News Is ptsd being overused in media reports of workplace bullying? discussion

[joeylittle]

Interesting thread. It bothers me in the article that physical sexual harassment (described as "being pushed against walls, forcibly kissed, groped and slapped by MPs") is somewhat of an afterthought. I know that 'bullying' is the buzzword for the article, but what would make someone think that the physical harassment is not the bigger problem? Perhaps that's not the article's intention, but it does read that way.

Expectation of violence doesn’t mean there’s any actual / real threat of violence.

Would like this 1000 times if I could. It's a distinction that people struggle to make, when making it for themselves (ie self-diagnosis). A clinical outside observer is more likely to see the narrative in an unbiased way, even if the patient/client is unconsciously slanting it.

For example, I have seen people post on fb that they have PTSD from losing a child (natural causes). I would never challenge them on it because it's a genuine belief and has probably been diagnosed, plus they have been through hell. losing a child is IMO one of the worst and probably THE worst thing a human being can go through. My Cat A trauma was nowhere near as distressing.

The death of a child is often sudden or unexpected - so, the 'real or threatened death' happening to someone who you are extremely close to (like your infant) would probably qualify more often than not. It is important to recognize grief as not the same as PTSD - the common mix-up here is that people can believe the protracted death of someone incredibly close to them can give them PTSD, when in fact, the death is not sudden or unexpected. Grief and it's associated disorders are approached somewhat differently. But I think in general, the unexpected or sudden death of one's child would match criteria.

I'm sorry. No, it's not. I don't like to trauma compare but I lost a child due to a force abortion with a BBQ fork (not natural causes). That was bad but it pales in comparison to some of my other trauma.

Then why are you trauma comparing, if you don't like to trauma compare? Both with the example of the mother losing her child, and with your own trauma - why does it need to pale in comparison?

I only advised it as I feel that it's important to know that there are a lot of pain out there. What's worse then the other will always be subjective. But when you throw in cults, human trafficking, kidnapping, torture, and things like that, you start to gain a bit more prespective. In my opinion, it's important to know those things are out there as well. Again though, what's worse then the other is very subjective.

I bolded the bit I wanted to comment on.

To me, the major difference between the sudden death of a child and the list you gave, is that those elements all consist of repetitive trauma - Being in a cult, or trafficked, or kidnapped, or tortured - none of them is a singular event. An unexpected death of a child is a single trauma.

Single trauma is not lesser than repetitive trauma.

On the surface it can appear so, because it's one vs. multiples. But, while we know that the symptomology for CPTSD has unique qualities that distinguish it from simple PTSD - there's no evidence or knowledge indicating that multiple or repeated trauma damages the brain more than a single trauma.

It's a question people ask here sometimes, "can I get PTSD more than once?" I'm fairly sure that science doesn't know, yet. The additional symptoms that arise from a CPTSD diagnosis are (currently) assumed to result from maladaptive cognitive and behavioral patterns that develop over the course of (surviving) the repetitive trauma.

(I'd love to know if I'm wrong about that, because it would mean I have some studies to catch up on...)

 

[Marinna]

Interesting thread. It bothers me in the article that physical sexual harassment (described as "bei...

Great post. Death of child wasn't the best example (as it certainly can cause PTSD if sudden, accidental or violent) but I used it to illustrate the point that PTSD doesn't nessacarily equate to an objectively 'worse' trauma. If that makes sense.

 

[Suzetig]

The onset of PTSD is about much, much more than the extent, or severity of the trauma. Herman does a good job of outlining the different factors which might contribute to someone developing PTSD, complex PTSD and the type of treatment that might be useful for recovery.

People can survive quite extreme levels of trauma - one off or repeated - if they have good support structures, if there’s an acceptance of their immediate post trauma response, if they have secure attachment patterns etc etc, it simply isn’t the case that big trauma = PTSD, no PTSD = minor trauma. Trauma comparing is useless in determining who will develop PTSD or who will suffer most.

To use @lostforgottensoul’s pretty crude example, watching my child being hit by a car and killed may very well end in me developing PTSD - and is actually the worst thing I could imagine happening to me at this point in my life. A forced “backstreet” abortion is truly terrible, and yet was the experience of many young women prior to abortion being legalised, many of whom didn’t go on to develop PTSD. Furthermore many women who have planned, medical abortions will exhibit signs of being traumatised by the process - not to the level of PTSD but certainly may carry the trauma with them for a long time.

I think that recognising PTSD as a niche diagnosis which encompasses extremes of debilitation rather than “I feel anxious, don’t like going to that place and have flashbacks - I must have PTSD from having my bum felt without my permission” would really help us focus on what helps or not.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Then why are you trauma comparing, if you don't like to trauma compare?

I compared my trauma to my trauma. Not the woman's trauma to my trauma.

why does it need to pale in comparison?

Because it does to me. Again though, speaking of my own trauma and not the woman's.

"can I get PTSD more than once?" I'm fairly sure that science doesn't know, yet. The additional symptoms that arise from a CPTSD diagnosis are (currently) assumed to result from maladaptive cognitive and behavioral patterns that develop over the course of (surviving) the repetitive trauma.

Intrrsting info. I am always excited to learn where the science is headed. Most especially with CPTSD.

To use @lostforgottensoul’s pretty crude example, watching my child being hit by a car and killed may very well end in me developing PTSD

Except she said:

from losing a child (natural causes).

Which is quite different. Natural causes and watching your child get hit by a car are very different.

Again, my own opinions. And to repeat what I said earlier. What's worse then the other is very subjective.

 

[Marinna]

I think there is confusion here. Lostforgottensoul wasn't comparing trauma (except her own which she is entitled to do). I was comparing, to illustrate a point. Not the best or most sensitive example, but i think i got my point accross.

 

[Mee]

I’m sorry; I haven’t read the whole thread ; it got quite ’much’.

I think numbers if cptsd in particular ( which might just be being called ptsd) might not be exaggerated but rather diagnosed more. We know figures of csa and SA are quite staggering and I think exposure to desensitise are such that until something happens to is directly it can feel for dome people a but like life is a tv news reel if internet lack of reality.

It's highly possible something happening is reported in a way that doesn’t tell us the whole story and imo we do not gave the right to know.

I also think if something happens yo doneond that is upsetting it reflects poorly on society that they should have yo duck if up unless they have something that justifies them being ’sensitive’ . Maybe if that wasn’t the case some if us wouldn’t have accepted so much or CSA and SA would be taken more seriously and the ptsd reaction would never have occurred?

 

[Marinna]

I’m sorry; I haven’t read the whole thread ; it got quite ’much’.

I think numbers if cptsd in p...

We are going by what is based on the article. There is no indication of SA or CSA. It has been repeatedly ackowledged that we might not know the full story and that this bullying might have acted as a stressor for Pre-existing PTSD. The article just makes it sound like she got PTSD from work placed bullying. Which isn't Cat A unless she was exposed to a real threat of SA or death. No indication of that in the article.

 

[Suzetig]

Which is quite different. Natural causes and watching your child get hit by a car are very different.

Ok, but I’m not aware of natural causes that would kill a child. Illness, disease and death in children are by their very nature unnatural. What natural cause can you think of that would end in a child’s death and not be traumatic for a parent?

I'm sorry. No, it's not. I don't like to trauma compare but I lost a child due to a force abortion with a BBQ fork (not natural causes).

And here @lostforgottensoul you compared your abortion experience to losing a child through natural causes in response to @Marinna suggestion that thedeath of a child is the worst thing imaginable. You went on to compare with your own trauma but the initial comparison was to something you’ve not experienced.

 

[Marinna]

Ok, but I’m not aware of natural causes that would kill a child. Illness, disease and death in childr...

You know exactly what I meant by natural causes. Of course losing a child is unatural, I don't need you to point that out to me. Especially when I have subsequently acknowledged it was insensitive. I have seen the impact of child loss on my mum. So sorry if my reply seems testy. Did I say it wasn't traumatic? Nope. I said it wasn't crit A TYPE of trauma. Someone corrected me. Job done.

Sorry did not get the context. Overeaction on my part. Apologies. This is my cue to leave this thread. Each and everyone of you have made fab points and it has been a very interesting discussion. Thank you

 

[Suzetig]

And I guess what I’m saying is that it does fall under Crit A. At some point in the process the parent gets sudden and unexpected news that their child will die, and may be involved in end of life decision making.

Studies show that around 30% of close family members of patients in ICU will develop post trauma stress reactions, with around 80% of those who were involved in end of life decision making developing PTSD. The study didn’t differentiate between relatives of adult or child patients, but it does indicate that life threatening illness in a close relative is in fact a Criterion A trauma.

I don’t think your example was at all insensitive and contributed to the discussion.

 

[Marinna]

And I guess what I’m saying is that it does fall under Crit A. At some point in the process the paren...

I'm sorry. I got snappy. I'm working on that in real life but should know better than to bring that attitude on a forum where I have time to control myself and reflect.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

What natural cause can you think of that would end in a child’s death and not be traumatic for a parent?

I never said it wouldn't be traumatic. It certianly is and it certianly was for me. I said as horrible as that was for me, it wasn't near the worst of my trauma. It's one thing to say it's the worst thing that happened to you and you alone and another thing to say it's the worst thing that can happen to a human, ever. Not when you look at everything inside of this world that happens to humans. And that is all I was advising. But, again, subjective. These are my opinions.

And here @lostforgottensoul you compared your abortion experience to losing a child through natural causes in response to @Marinna suggestion that thedeath of a child is the worst thing imaginable. You went on to compare with your own trauma but the initial comparison was to something you’ve not experienced.

No I didn't.

I lost a child due to a force abortion with a BBQ fork (not natural causes). That was bad but it pales in comparison to some of my other trauma

That's comparing my trauma to my trauma.

I'm sorry that everyone is upset by my opinions. I did not mean to upset anyone.