Service dog handler lobby

[lostforgottensoul]

Just to help clear of misinformation. There are 3 types of "helper animals" in the United States. Service animals (dogs or miniture horse only) which must do physical tasks that you cannot do for yourself that midigates a dignosed disabilty, excluding comfort per the ADA. These dogs (or miniture horse) are the only animals that can go into public places with their handler as they have been or must be trained to behave appropratly in the public and have public access training (and the only animals recongized by the ADA which is what gives service dogs public access rights or the right to be with us in non-pet friendly public places). There is a public access test for service dogs and though not required to take, it's a good idea to train those concepts so that your service dog could pass it if it needed to. I am hearing that many schools are requiring a public access test to bring the service animal to school. Not sure how legel this is but just what people tell me.

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

ADA Requirements: Service Animals

There is a provion for miniture horses so "service animal" is limited to dogs and minture horses only.

Emotional support animal (which can be any type of animal) is an animal who provides emotional support but does nothing physical. They do not have to be trained to do anything but to be there and do not have to be trained. This is why the ADA excludes them. They do not have to be trained on how to properly act in public as service animals do but due to that the ADA excludes them and does not regonize them. Thus no public access rights.

And then lastly you have therapy dogs which are for others. They are the dogs in hospitals, assisted living facilities, therapy rooms. They have to pass the CGC but are not trained to do physical tasks and are limited to where they can go. They cannot go everywhere with the owner as they are not for the owner.

The regular service animals have full public access.

Yes, they do. Emotional support animals (or ESAs) do not. The ADA does not recongize them. You are using "Emotional support animal" and "service animal" interchangeably and they are two very different things. They are not the same thing. They are covered by different laws and do different things.

And apparently my psych doc is wrong?

Wouldn't be the first time. In my experience doctors don't realize that ESAs and service animals are different things. My therapist didn't and we had to discuss the difference for him to realize an ESA wasn't enough for me and that I needed a Service dog.

He has been doing this for years now.

My therapist has been in practice around 20 or 30 years. If someone is never advised of the difference then they remain ignorant on the subject. It is best to look up the laws.

Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?
A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA

ETA: In addition, many State laws differ. Florida reads as the ADA does but for public access rights you may want to read and understand your State law.

 

[Justmehere]

Problem: Navigating "therapy" (legit and otherwise) dogs running unleashed and unsupervised around public spaces in buildings shared by multiple offices.

Solution: ?

Why it's a problem: it's not safe for dogs OR humans.

Why it's hard to solve: WTF. Why can't helping professionals understand this is a problem? I keep being told their dog IS SO WONDERFUL. Uh yeah... but that doesn't make it ok for it to run around jumping on my dog. You don't get an exception to the leash laws (or laws prohibiting the interference with the work of a service dog) because your dog is oh-so-wonderful.

Anyone run into this? Anyone run into the resistance that "it's a therapy dog though" when asking a helping professional to leash their therapy dog in a public space?

 

[Sideways]

Anyone run into this?

Not specifically with someone claiming their dog is a ‘therapy’ dog. But I have had my dog interfered with by an unleashed dog (in the grocery store of all places!), and the owner brushed it off with a comment about how my dog was ‘probably trained to deal with other dogs’.

WTF!

I must have been feeling particularly obnoxious that day. I had my dog sitting against the register, and stood right in front of his nose facing him, and just started talking to him very loudly about how “Hopefully they will get their dog under control soon”.

Total passive aggressive move - talking to my dog loudly about how the idiots around me need to back off!

In my case, it ended well. There was a staff member who saw what was going on, and (ahem) heard what I was saying to my dog, and they got righteous about it on my behalf! The guy (and his freelancing dog) were rounded up and escorted sharply out of the store, after which I got an apology from the store manager!!

Breaking into a happy-voiced, reasonably loud conversation with my dog is something I use a lot to let people around me know they’re behaving inappropriately. Like, “I know Budster, they shouldn’t be chatting to you like that, because you’re working, aren’t you?! It’s okay, we’re just going to ignore them and focus on working together...”.

The person it’s directed at is usually close enough that I don’t have to yell. They hear, and most often? They get it, and back the fk off! Importantly for me, engaging with my dog, rather than the problem person? Keeps my dog’s focus on me (not them or their dog), and keeps me much calmer than if I tried to engage with the problem itself.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Anyone run into this? Anyone run into the resistance that "it's a therapy dog though" when asking a helping professional leash their therapy dog in a public space?

I run into very untrained barking, growling ESAs in non-pet friendly locations (which they do not belong legally) a lot. That's why I am very gun ho to educate the differences. They do not have to be trained but they also, legally, do not belong in public non-pet friendly areas. It is dangerous! If Chopper misses an alert due to a massive distraction I can disocciate and move around with zero memory of it. But others have a TBI and have service dogs that alert to seizures. I have seen a super well trained service dog get distracted in a line at a store and the handler with a TBI and has seizures had a seizure due to her very well trained service dog being distracted and missed an alert (because its still a dog, not a robot) and hit her head on the counter and was put back into the ICU and had to relean how to walk, talk, and feed herself again. People say "it's for my anxiety" with the dog in the cart (which is against US healthcode). If it's not a SERVICE DOG with correct public access training, don't bring it into non-pet friendly locations! Your ESA is not legally allowed in non-pet friendly public locations in the US people! It is not the same thing as a service dog. Two very different things! And dang it, stop bringing your pets into non-pet friendly locations as well. Just stop!

I have a video of a pet parrot in Walmart that was being put on people after hurricane Irma when I was there charging devices. People think its funny. Its not!

 

[littleoc]

My university had that problem. My service dog got attacked by the same professor's dog multiple times.

Now my service dog ALWAYS notices other dogs. I'm still mad about it, but glad and was willing to protect me, I guess?

Sad, because it wasn't even the other dog's fault. That dog was traumatized -- if she'd have been leashed? No problem!

So I have no patience. I report and have gotten police involved many times. Unless I think the other dog is in danger -- then I scare the crap out of the owner.

Leash laws are important.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

leashed

Why do people not want to leash their pets? I am always fighting off dogs at home. I live in an apartment complex. Why do people just let their dog out without a leash? I will kick your dog in the head to protect mine! We run into this all that time when exercising which I use that time to do off leash training. Chopper still has a 50 foot leash and a remote collar on. And he never goes anywhere but what I allow. He never runs up to people or their dogs. Dogs run over to him all the time! It's ridiculous! And it pisses me off. Leash your dogs people!

 

[Sideways]

I will kick your dog in the head to protect mine!

Um, wow!

How about, “I will take my dog somewhere else where it’s safe to exercise/train/work to protect mine...”:confused:

 

[lostforgottensoul]

How about, “I will take my dog somewhere else where it’s safe to exercise/train/work to protect mine.

Leash rules here. I will do what I need to do to protect my dog.

 

[Sideways]

Leash rules here.

Er, yeah. Leash rules where I am as well.

Me and my dog have rights to be places and not be interfered with. We have bylaws and council hands out heavy fines for owners who have their dog off a leash.

But personally? My dog’s safety is paramount, and if I think he’s unsafe, I’ll remove him from the situation. That’s more important to me than making a point of enforcing my rights, or injuring someone else’s dog simply because their handler is being irresponsible.

 

[Justmehere]

I will kick your dog in the head to protect mine!

It's actually pretty dangerous to conduct one's self in an aggressive manner around potentially aggressive unleashed dogs. As someone who has been attacked by a dog, more than once, and never seriously injured, there are more effective ways to handle an aggressive dog or attacking dog. In fact, aggressive or fearful emotional states on part of the humans will fuel dogs to become more aggressive and prolong the length of an attack.

Talking HAPPY to an approaching dog that is acting aggressively can help a lot. Even if terrified.

If an attack happens, the best thing is NOT to actually reach into the middle at all, with legs or arms, because all that does is create another victim and prolong the attack. Kicking the other dog isn't actually very effective at protecting one's own dog either. It's really good at your foot bit and leaving you less able to help your own dog. One option is to grab the back legs of the attacking dog and pull the dogs apart. Another option: canine mace. (Yeah, it's a thing.) Especially good if mobility impaired or alone.

Best option? If possible, get the heck out of there long before any attack, and deal with the irresponsible humans later from a safe location.


Anyhow, moving on....

What I'm particularly struggling with is doctor's offices and therapists who let therapy dogs run LOOSE in public spaces. My dog was actually attacked by a certified unleashed therapy dog a year ago running loose and unsupervised in a shared lobby in a large building (both dogs are fine.) I had to speak to another doctor's office today about their dog running all over a shared lobby. The doc kept telling me how wonderful her dog is to everyone. The dog is quite sweet, but that doesn't mean I want it jumping on my service dog when I walk into a large waiting room shared with several other practices. Like come on. We talked it through, and it was a good conversation but also a frustrating one. She insisted on her right to let her amazing dog run free. Because "everyone loves him." It had been jumping on my service dog, and I had to leave the building.

She only agreed to stop letting the dog run loose when I explained what it means if a seizure alert dog can't alert to a seizure. I used the example of an 8 year old kid with such a service dog. "When the child's mother has to call 911 because the seizure alert dog didn't alert to a seizure, because it was too busy being distracted by your dog playing with the service dog, do you think anyone is going to care that your dog is SUPER DUPER FRIENDLY and awesome? Or how about when a blind woman with a guide dog is led into a wall because your dog was jumping on it to play like it did with mine. As people in the waiting room rush to grab ice for the injury, do you think anyone will care how about the awesomeness of your dog? No. What they will care about is why you, as a medical doctor, let your dog run all over distracting and interfering with the work of service dogs and putting people at grave risk for injury. They will care very deeply about that. I love dogs, but this has nothing to do with how awesome your dog is as a therapy dog."

She got the message. She agreed it wouldn't happen again after that. Awesome. Because my PT appointments were getting to be annoying with her dog running down the hall to play with mine every 15 minutes. UGH. And really, I am not far from asking an animal control officer I know well to give her a call and help educate her on why she has to follow leash laws before anyone gets hurt....

But like seriously... since when is it therapy to let a dog run all over? ugh. I guess I need to vent. I don't understand why these therapy dog handlers think they don't have to abide by leash laws in public spaces. Private back offices? Whatever. Shared lobby spaces where anyone from the public can walk in? I would never even think of letting my dog run loose like that all over.

 

[Sideways]

Yeah, we have a community legal service nearby that keeps a couple of small, super friendly dogs in the office. They let them wander around and interact with the clients as a way to ease the stress (they mostly help women escaping domestic violence, so there’s a lot of stress, and yes, the dogs do help a lot with that).

But at the same time? If does mean that someone like me, needing an Assistance dog with me, would have a hard time.

I think a lot of it is about patience and (slow, painfully slow) education. There may be situations like that where, great! If that helps the bulk of their clients? Fantastic. So long as they know there are limits, and if someone comes in with an Assistance dog, those dogs will need to be restrained.

I can certainly understand your frustration, and it sounds like you handled it with an incredible degree of understanding and maturity. Try not to let it get you down too much, because ultimately, you’ve found a way to make that situation work for you. It was harder than it should have been, but you got there - that’s what counts.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

It's actually pretty dangerous to conduct one's self in an aggressive manner around potentially aggressive unleashed dogs.

I appreciate your concern but it was said to say "I will if I need to". I know exactly how to conduct myself around aggressive dogs. I have trained aggressive dogs. I also carry bear spray. I didn't want to go through every single step I take to protect my dog. Again, it was stated as "i will if I need to as a last resort to protect my own dog. Please leash your dog in an apartment complex with a leash rule on the lease". That's all.

But like seriously... since when is it therapy to let a dog run all over? ugh. I guess I need to vent. I don't understand why these therapy dog handlers think they don't have to abide by leash laws in public spaces. Private back offices? Whatever. Shared lobby spaces where anyone from the public can walk in? I would never even think of letting my dog run loose like that all over.

They are supposed to be leashed in shared spaces. Even service dogs have rules placed on them by the ADA as to when they can be unleashed. I only know of one person that keeps a service dog off leash constantly. Me, when he is fully off leashed trained, will only have him off leash when working and when his leash hinders the tasks but plan to always carry a leash just in case or between those times he needs to be off leash. Even when exercising he's on a 50 foot lead as well as the remote collar. He will 100% obey the remote collar but I just don't feel ok with him being 100% off leash like that.

I would complain to those you need to. They aren't covered by the ADA so would think animal control would be the correct authorities to complain to. They are just like pets in that they need to be leashed in areas that pets need to be in my view. They don't have off leash prevledges unless, like you said, is in something like a private office. But that's like bringing in a therapy dog to a children's hospital and then letting it run all over the hospital. And I would expect a therapy dog to be trained to not run around crazy like that anyway.