Service dog handler lobby

[Freida]

Look what just passed in Washington State!

On March 22, 2018, Governor Jay Inslee has signed a bill that it will be an offense for misrepresentation of a non-trained Service Dog or Miniature Horse a Class 1 Civil Infraction. This act will be effective January 01, 2019.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Florida made it more punishable to fake a service dog recently as well @Freida! The States are at least trying. Now to enforce these laws!

 

[Gs172003]

Look what just passed in Washington State!

On March 22, 2018, Governor Jay Inslee has signed a bill tha...

I wish they would do that here. We had a "Service dog" that came in today that was at one point carried by it's owner and was walked by everybody in the party. Grrrr

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I need some help. I don't get what I'm doing wrong. Chopper now has anxiety about the car due to a car accident. I took him driving around the block near everyday, then ran him right after, and it got a bit better. I could see marked improvements and so I stopped after 2 weeks as it was getting better. But then it got worse. So, I did some brainstorming with people on my youtube channel and I decided that I was going to take him "practice driving" again near everyday except yesterday I had to prepare his raw food as well as run him and today i decided to try to do some trainings vested to help unassociate or deassociate (or whatever) the vest with the car (thus stress) and then had planned to go driving after. He used to be excited to vest and now it seems like I'm forcing him to. Keep in mind he still works ok. I mean, we have some things to retrain but for the most part he works ok. Once we get out of the car anyway. He also does commands quickly when we exercise. But, we vested today inside and I tried to do toy training and he had near zero toy drive. I was chasing it more then he was. He usually has pretty good toy and food drive. And he knows what cover is (heel and cover is what we were training), without leash pressure as he does it outside during a fetch game but he was totally refusing the toy inside vested today. Though I was trying to keep it exciting and fun, he just didn't care. About a toy or food. What am I doing wrong here? I know how to build toy and food drive but its like he becomes deaf inside while vested and he is acting like super depressed lately. Moping. I took a break from working and training. I tried to make it fun and exciting. I used my body language and my uppity voice and it all failed. OMG! I'm stuck! Has anyone dealt with fear/anxiety about something like this with your service dog? How have you handled it? He is vested in the car cuz he needs to be buckled in due to it being a stick shift and he gets tossed around if not so for his saftey I need to buckle him in. I do have a seatbelt harness so if I need to go "vest-less" I can use that. But, OMG, I am so lost at what to do. I've tried every technique I can find. Do I vest him and drive him around the block again? Do I load him in the car unvested with turkey and make the car bounce and reward? That was someone's idea on youtube. Do I train unvested and re-train the vest? I mean, it seems like whatever I'm doing is making it worse. Help!

 

[Freida]

. I do have a seatbelt harness so if I need to go "vest-less" I can use that.

If we are getting in the car to go somewhere and play SD has his seatbelt but not his vest. I might put it on him when we get there if it's a long drive but usually no vest indicates not working. So I like the idea of letting him ride around in the car in a "non working" mindset so that if he wants to be worried he can be -without being on duty.

Or could he just be tired? SD was impossible on my trip home from Denver because he was just exhausted. He was super balky about putting on the vest or behaving. Maybe Chopper just needs a couple days off to just be a dog?

If that doesn't work a trip to the vet might be in order. The worst thing about the big bully breeds are they are so freaking stoic that you cant tell there is anything wrong with them. I had that problem with one of my rotties and was heartbroken when I found out he had a sprain on his elbow. The only indication of a problem was he wasn't as energetic as usual.

 

[Sideways]

Buddy got pretty anxious about the car when he was young because the only trips we did in it were to the vet or to grooming. I trained it out of him by driving to a nearby park each day: short trip, to somewhere he has a good time. He gradually learned that getting in the car could mean we’re going somewhere fun.

Give it time, and try taking as much pressure off the car situation as you can, just like you’d do for a person with anxiety about a particular place. Short trips, not working, lots of fun, lots of talking, lots of small treats.

His anxiety makes sense, a car accident does make the car a bit scary. Lots of patience, he’ll get there.

ETA: if the anxiety is to the point of him shaking and salivating, just getting in the car together, chatting and petting for a few minutes then getting out again using treats is where I’d start.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

If that doesn't work a trip to the vet might be in order. The worst thing about the big bully breeds are they are so freaking stoic that you cant tell there is anything wrong with them. I had that problem with one of my rotties and was heartbroken when I found out he had a sprain on his elbow. The only indication of a problem was he wasn't as energetic as usual

His last vet appointment (mid March I believe about 2 weeks after he stopped limping) he had an all clear vet appointment. He had an xray and though the vet couldn't see soft tissue his bones all the way down from shoulders to feet were totally ok. The vet said he pulled a muscle at the time. Which has since healed. I can't see how he could have sprained anything from then to now, or done anything at all, and still no limping. We had a bit in there where he was limping but still no limp from like end of Feb til now.

Or could he just be tired? SD was impossible on my trip home from Denver because he was just exhausted. He was super balky about putting on the vest or behaving. Maybe Chopper just needs a couple days off to just be a dog?

No reason for him to be tired. He's still in training so not working at all all day while I'm at work and we took a few days off. No working or training from Thurs to today. We tried training without the vest and I got his toy drive up a little bit with a different toy but no where where it used to be. He's very hesitate. The best way I can describe it is mopy or depressed. I don't know how else to describe it. It's super puzzling. Especially because he works perfectly fine. But he seems to be moping around the house even when off duty. Almost shut down. I don't know. I'm so at a loss on this one.

If we are getting in the car to go somewhere and play SD has his seatbelt but not his vest. I might put it on him when we get there if it's a long drive but usually no vest indicates not working. So I like the idea of letting him ride around in the car in a "non working" mindset so that if he wants to be worried he can be -without being on duty.

I can use the seat belt harness but if I'm driving he needs to be buckled in. When I first got the car I didn't buckle him as my last car (an automatic) he liked to stand and put his head on my shoulder but when I changed gears his head hit the middle consol. So, for his saftey, I need to buckle him. I trained the car since then in the beginning so it's not the head hitting the middle consol. This started right after the car accident. But, the easiest thing to do was to vest him right before loading in the car then buckle him to his vest. Many other handlers dress before loading in the car as well I noticed. But, I can use the searbelt harness and I can load him naked if I am not driving.

Thank you @Sideways! That makes sense. I tried a version of that. Dress, load, no talking and just doing, around the block adding more distance each time and then unload, undress, then out to run. This is when I saw improvements. I think I stopped it too soon. I didn't take him fully out of work but I did limit his work at the time. I'm afraid that if I take him fully out of work he will back peddle way too much on the public access training. But he was improving then. It had been 2 weeks and I figured time would improve the rest of it and stopped and that's when it got worse. So, that makes sense.

 

[Justmehere]

Do you let him play and be off duty after being in the car?

Animals usually face a lot of scary situations in the wild, but they rarely end up with prolonged stress reactions. Why? They can shake off and run off the adrenaline. It doesn't get "stuck." (Somatic Experiencing therapy for humans is built off this fact.) When a deer runs away from a threat in the wild, once it is safe, you'll see it give a whole body shake. Wolves are the same.

Dog owners and trainers, meaning well, usually try to comfort and hold back a dog after it's faced a fear. When it's a big fear that the dog is having a prolonged reaction to, it's actually better to pause and not hold the dog back, but let it take a moment to get a little space to shake it off.

An example: my dog was afraid of a cow statue in town. I put treats near the statue so the dog would get close. Dog got close and associated statute with treat! Dog was still scared and visibly shaking, but did it for the treat. As we back away, I signaled for her to be off duty... and she shook all over and danced a bit... and then she was totally fine. She processed the fear much quicker when I didn't hold her back from wiggling it out a bit. Next time we went by the statue, she was totally fine. No fear. No reaction. No change in working status.

More complex situation:

At least one a week, we have to walk up a looooong flight of stairs that is nearly see through. She was so scared of them. While we were still working through the fear, training that the staircase is safe, she was given treats and praise going up, and then a moment of off duty time at the top. She could then shake out all the stress. I didn't verbally reassure her once we got to the top. I just gave her space and the off duty command. (Taking off the vest might be the same as a command for other dogs.) She wiggled and moved about, shook all over. and quickly returned to being a very happy dog. We did it a handful of times. She didn't have any lasting fear or associating that working means doing scary things. It took a few times doing this and she was going up and down the stairs without much difficulty.

I'd suggest that the next time you go in the car, do something right afterwards where he can freely move a bit, off duty, shake and burn off the adrenaline and stress... and then return back to duty again. If you try this approach, because this may be new, it may take a few times before he gets it.

But now, my dog knows the off duty command and the shake command. When she faces something scary, she will hang on through the fear following commands just fine, and then knows when I give the command, it's time to let the fear wiggle through her body and shake or dance/run it out a bit, then she can let the fear and stress response go, and it doesn't get "stuck" in her nervous system. It hasn't messed up public access one bit over the long haul. She walks up and down those stairs now without pausing or hesitation, and without having to stop and shake off the fear. She's worked it through.

ETA: if he’s acting depressed when not working... he could be bored. Exercise and brain toys can help.

This all being said, each trainer and each dog is different. You'll find lots of ideas online. Take whats helpful (and safe) and disregard the rest.

 

[littleoc]

I love the other advice, but just wanted to add that once you sprain a muscle once, it's easy to do again, but without limping.

Long story short it's happened to my dog. I do small physical therapy exercises with her and she thinks they're fun and it reduces her troubles. If her knee is bothering her enough for me to notice, I'll get her some ice and we'll spend the day relaxing so it can heal.

Changing her diet to induce something she needed helped with that. I give her cooked foods, though -- I'm almost irrationally afraid of salmonella and E. coli infections -- but I've added some treaty things like chicken jerky. Maybe you could look into that?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Do you let him play and be off duty after being in the car

Yes, that's what we were doing at first when he was getting better. Dress, around the block, undress, play. But normally, no. We did thay for 2 weeks and then I stopped as I figured he was over the worse of it. I was wrong.

Dog owners and trainers, meaning well, usually try to comfort and hold back a dog after it's faced a fear. When it's a big fear that the dog is having a prolonged reaction to, it's actually better to pause and not hold the dog back, but let it take a moment to get a little space to shake it off.

The last example is what we do normally. Make him face it. No reinforcement as then you're reinforcing anxiety. Just do it. Over and over again. Reinforced for staying calm ir focusing on me (depending on the fear of course). This one he is just moving past and all of my exposure techniques have failed but again, probably stopped the daily exposure too soon.

Taking off the vest might be the same as a command for other dogs

Yes, undressing is his sign of being off duty and dressing his sign of on duty.

I'd suggest that the next time you go in the car, do something right afterwards where he can freely move a bit, off duty, shake and burn off the adrenaline and stress... and then return back to duty again. If you try this approach, because this may be new, it may take a few times before he gets it.

Yes, what we were doing orginally. I guess 2 weeks of daily or near daily rides weren't enough?

ETA: if he’s acting depressed when not working... he could be bored. Exercise and brain toys can help.

Odd for him to be bored though. We run everyday. We will miss a day here or there but he runs often. And does here and there tasks through out his off duty time. I mean, not like he's on duty but to help me off the couch for instance. Then i will give a few basic commands before dinner. I cant see him being bored. But not enough where he's burnt out. I can't see that either. But we rested a few days just in case.

Changing her diet

Already done.

I think going back to near daily rides directly before his daily run is a good idea as its when I saw the improvement. I think i just stopped too soon.

ETA: I should add that his daily run is fetch and tug. We do excise while we play. So it's not just him running but him playing while running.

 

[Justmehere]

I don’t mean people error by hold the dog back from the feared object, but they error by holding the dog back from having a stress response after exposure to the feared object.

(I have a very positive training approach that maximizes the dogs ability to regulate themselves. I don’t force exposure to a feared object - unless it’s a safety or health issue like a needle at the vet. I reward for the dog choosing to get closer and then let the dog shake it out afterwards until they dont have any more fear of the object.)

My dog was hit by a skateboarder once. She wasn’t insured, but we were both reasonably spooked. I talked happy and treated lots near a skate park in town. I let her choose to keep getting closer for the treat and happy praise. But then walking away, I let her spaz out a little and shake. I let her be scared.

Eventually, she worked it through. Eventually, I could rewards her for going close calmly and leaving calmly. Now she salivates and wags her tail when she sees a skateboard. Lol.

But again, you’ll get lots of opinions and input anywhere you go online. This is just what works for me and my style. I hope you find what what works for you and your pup!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

(I have a very positive training approach that maximizes the dogs ability to regulate themselves. I don’t force exposure to a feared object - unless it’s a safety or health issue like a needle at the vet. I reward for the dog choosing to get closer and then let the dog shake it out afterwards until they dont have any more fear of the object.)

Sounds a bit like BAT 2.0. I do a bit of a mixture of BAT 2.0 and gental and slow exposure, and reward for say focusing on me rather then the gas pump or elevator. It's worked tremdously well for us. But every dog is different and needs different techniques. Its why i was so puzzled the exposure didnt work for us but if I think back it took much longer exposure to both the gas pump and the elevator then 2 weeks. 2 weeks and he was still anxious about it so I still think I didn't do thw near daily drives long enough.

People's mistakes, in my opinion, is say trying to calm the dog during the fear. Say to thunder. It's rewarding for the anxiety. Dogs will tend to work through fear themselves but they need to be exposed to it in order to work through it. No matter how slow I went, eventually we would need to go up in the elevator. For example. I allowed him to have his panic and when we got to the top "YAY!" And celebrate. Go back in and down, "YAY!" And celebrate over and over and over again. Eventually he learned that it's not going to hurt him and there's nothing to fear and works through that on his own. But it took way longer then 2 weeks for him to not be bothered by the elevator. Just as an example. I did try other techniques and they all failed for us. A balanced training method really works for Chopper and he works through fears well. I just dont think I gave it long enough. I also think thats why I was seeing inprovements when we were taking the near daily drives. He was working through it i just stopped it too soon I think.

ETA: I also train with a lot of positivity and rewards.