Therapist.. and narcissist?

[Veevivianvee]

Not sure how to get to the point without rambling .
I recently entered Therapy, and I'm still not sure what's ok and what's not ok for a therapist to do... or insist .
(Yes I know I have every right to disagree with things that she says.) But i would like to know how often this kind of scenario happens.
Before entering therapy I was aware of the amount of pain and hurt I need to work on . I have had a lot of narcissistic relationships, and quickly began to make that a pattern in my life. I told the therapist about the relationship I was in with someone who has ptsd and the words narcissistic came out again. It kind of blew me as I know people who suffer from narcissism and people who suffer from ptsd, are suffering from two completely different things. The only thing that never changed, or barely changed was my codependency. I definitely did not like her comparing him to all the narcissist who had previously been in my life, he definitely doesn't fit the bill .
How dangerous is it to have a therapist who does not understand or specialize in ptsd ?

 

[EveHarrington]

Ok, so you’re still in a relationship with someone who has ptsd.

Chances are that she’s going to advocate for an exit plan because narcissists don’t change.

PTSD, on the other hand, has behaviors that can be changed.

I think it’s important to have a therapist who understands trauma as they can determine what is narcissistic and what is a trauma symptom. And more importantly they’ll be able to determine if your ptsd guy actually is narcissistic.

Can you share what behaviors of his are deemed to be narcissistic?

 

[shimmerz]

How dangerous is it to have a therapist who does not understand or specialize in ptsd ?

To counsel someone who does have PTSD? My vote is that it can be very dangerous. A therapist who doesn't understand the nuances of trauma reactions can literally drive a person to commit suicide, to self harm, or even lose their grip on reality - for good.
Yes. Dangerous.

 

[Veevivianvee]

Ok, so you’re still in a relationship with someone who has ptsd.

Chances are that she’s goi...

Well. that's just it she really didn't let me go in to too much detail about the ptsd relationship

Ok, so you’re still in a relationship with someone who has ptsd.

Chances are that she’s goi...

Is it possible for someone that has ptsd to be a narcissist as well?
(asking because i honestly dont know)

Um i think she just held on to the pattern of all my other relationships being with someone who was /is a narcissist .
Even my parents are Narcissist themselves, and my codependency starts there.
I told her everything was fine in our relationship until he started being symptomatic . While he was symptomatic he disregarded my feelings about certain situations and kind of passed the blame on to me . HE never did this before , which made me think it was all because he was symptomatic. He also in her words "discarded" me when things became too much for him or when he "got what he wanted" I have experienced this in other relationships, but I am hesitant to believe that was the case with him. It slightly irritated me that she just seemed to write off the ptsd all together and referred to the ptsd and tbi as "red flags" ...this bothered me

I at first did plan to wait for his return as he is in the hospital at the moment . at least thats what I believe . But now I know for sure how i personally went about the relationship was unhealthy. I just didn't know it was codependency at the time.
The therapist said i need to break off the relationship because i am incapable of being in a relationship with "normal" people. Due to attachment trauma and i will just continue to invite in negative and harmful people.
Again i do not see him as negative or harmful, each of our individual circumstances together can possibly be negative and harmful but not the person himself.

I decided that I would take the time to grieve the relationship for what it was and silently broke up with him. he doesn't know and of course im not going to message him. LOL dont even have his number anymore .

My reason for this is I hope to get better for myself and if I become stable enough to be in a relationship and if he feels he too is stable enough to be in a relationship well then I want us to be together . But as of now im working hard on myself for myself. and I could not start the process of working on myself while still holding on to him.

To counsel someone who does have PTSD? My vote is that it can be very dangerous. A therapist who doe...

what about just having knowledge on the subject in general? or being able to properly identify when someone has ptsd ? or when has narcissism?

 

[shimmerz]

because i am incapable of being in a relationship with "normal" people. Due to attachment trauma and i will just continue to invite in negative and harmful people.

This is standard procedure. The fact that you are codependent and he has PTSD fits perfectly really, because people with PTSD take a lot of work and care. This scenario lets the codependent focus on 'the problem' (PTSD dude) outside of themselves.

I decided that I would take the time to grieve the relationship for what it was and silently broke up with him.

I think this option, and the work that you will do on understanding why the codependency will benefit you greatly in the future. That's bravery and I respect that.

 

[shimmerz]

While he was symptomatic he disregarded my feelings about certain situations and kind of passed the blame on to me .

Not sure I would call this anything but being trauma related. I think when we are symptomatic that most of us are pretty incapable of focusing on others - just because what is happening in our heads and bodies is beyond words. We are either trying not to psychologically break or worse; trying to survive physically by not self harming, letting somatics take us over, or attempt to keep suicide thoughts under control.

A therapist with training in trauma related stuff would know this. Narcissistic isn't what a trauma therapist would call your partners behaviour while symptomatic.

 

[Abstract]

It isn't that simple to define the cause of someones reactions in situations and so a pat guess, right off, is likely to be just that. And I think irresponsible of her to go to narcissism seemingly randomly.

Personality disorders are consistent and start young. What you are describing doesn't seem to fit as you say he behaves in certain ways when he is symptomatic. I'm not saying he doesn't have a personality disorder but supposed personality traits that have not been around consistently since young aren't that. There are lots of other reasons for people behaving in specific ways.

At a guess what she should be doing for you is to look at why you keep ending up in relationships that are not balanced and where the other party isn't healthy in some way or other. As you rightly mentioned, your codependency. Looking at how you can look after yourself when in them.

 

[Friday]

Before entering therapy I was aware of the amount of pain and hurt I need to work on . I have had a lot of narcissistic relationships, and quickly began to make that a pattern in my life. I told the therapist about the relationship I was in with someone who has ptsd ...

How dangerous is it to have a therapist who does not understand or specialize in ptsd ?

In this instance I’d say about as dangerous as having a therapist who doesn’t specialize in cancer, if you’d hooked up with a cancer patient to pour all your energy into.

It’s not about who you’re dating, per se, it’s about YOU & wanting to change the patterns in your own life that reflect really strongly in who you’re dating.

PTSD is a hyper-selfish disorder, the same way that cancer is a hyper-selfish illness. A very disproportionate amount of time and energy is going to go into that person coupled with periods of time where they simply cannot reciprocate.

It’s lkke if you had attachment issues and kept dating active duty military, touring musicians, campaigning politicians, etc. It wouldn’t be about THEM, but about YOU choosing to date people who are unavailable for months at a time.

Even the wanting a therapist for yourself that specializes in their disorder/illness/career/etc.? Screams codependency when you’re dealing with copdependent issues.

Well. that's just it she really didn't let me go in to too much detail about the ptsd relationship

Which fits, if she’s trying to make your therapy about you, instead of about him.

 

[Veevivianvee]

Not sure I would call this anything but being trauma related. I think when we are symptomatic that mo...

Thank you for your reply!
this makes a lot of sense! I'm learning so much about thes

This is standard procedure. The fact that you are codependent and he has PTSD fits perfectly really,...

Thank you!
I also really appreciate you replying!
your insight is awesome! i truly had no idea how codependency worked, and why as you stated it works so well with ptsd.
I think the great part of all of it was that i was aware certain things were happening within myself, but i just couldn't pinpoint the why or the what and i feel like that makes a world of difference .

It isn't that simple to define the cause of someones reactions in situations and so a pat guess, right...

Thank you abstract
it will definitely be a long and interesting journey to find out the how's the whys etc etc
and I'm definitely prepared to do the work.but since this has been my first real go at therapy i was not entirely sure how things worked.

In this instance I’d say about as dangerous as having a therapist who doesn’t specialize in cancer,...

Thank you friday!
I definitely agree with most of what you're saying
my wanting a therapist who at least knows about ptsd and other traumas outside of ptsd is important to me for reasons outside of him. yes i previously had a history of dating narcissist, but I am no longer dating them. now to me this could be a different pattern that goes beyond that. it is also this relationship and the ptsd aspects that pushed me to my limits ..I can understand how she would make the connection given the previous pattern that happened 3 years before this current relationship .So if another pattern is starting (which i hope not) I believe it would be important for the therapist to understand the other disorder vs codependency . hopefully that makes sense .

 

[Abstract]

Well done for looking at this.

.So if another pattern is starting (which i hope not) I believe it would be important for the therapist to understand the other disorder vs codependency . hopefully that makes sense .

I think what Friday and others are saying to you is that the other party in the relationship is a separate issue. It sounds like it is the same pattern for you. The therapist just needs to hear/see your thoughts and behaviors to work on your patterns with you. I do get that a therapist who understands PTSD would be more able to interpret his reactions correctly but that's not entirely what you are talking about here. You are connecting as options his PTSD and your codependency. The one is him the other is you. His condition isn't your pattern.

Do you think it would help to discuss what codependency is here? How you understand it.

 

[Veevivianvee]

Do you think it would help to discuss what codependency is here? How you understand it.

This would be great! as I do not fully understand the concept of codependency yet. i understand the signs of it a little better but not as a whole.Im still doing research , and reading books and they've all been helpful but im definitely still missing key elements and valid points. so far In my case I've learned it's being dependent upon another person due to underlying attachment trauma.

 

[Abstract]

I think boundaries would be a good place to start for you. There are books on boundaries if you haven't yet explored that.

Its good you have decided to work on healing for yourself before you decide who else you should have in your life.

If someone was going to manage to successfully be in a relationship with someone with PTSD then they need to be the type of person who can look after themselves very well and isn't reliant on a relationship or another person (what they say, think about you, do) to feel happy, centred etc. That doesn't mean the person wouldn't be setting limits or looking at what they need in the relationship.

If you can come into a relationship from a position of being a whole person in yourself then the rest is much easier.

What would be the common ground between narcissism and PTSD? That you are not in a relationship with a fully healthy person. She may be saying he is something it sounds like he is not at all but when it comes to your side of things you need to see if you: over depend on someone else for your well being and sense of self. If you get hooked into trying to rescue people. If there is a certain safety in not being in an equal relationship. If you spend too much time obsessing about what other people think say etc. If you struggle to keep a firm grip on your own needs when exposed to someone elses. If you have poor self esteem that is easily knocked and you don't have sufficient healthy coping and self care skills of your own. If you can't tell where you end or begin and where others end and begin.