Becoming A "Compliant Victim"

[piratelady]

@Loner: I can't speak for Nicolette, but in my case, I did not have the support or means to leave for several years. Looking back I can see how my abuser took away my ability to leave:

1. He cut me off from my friends or family. I did not have a support system outside of him. There was no one to turn to for help. When I reached out to a friend I paid for it dearly. I never made that mistake again.

2. He took away my financial means. All the belongings I had that were "Mine" he got rid of and replaced them with things that were "his." My income went to support "our bills." I had no money and no belongings of my own. In the end I had to take out a loan just to leave.

3. Over the many years I was with him he always told me how I was a failure. Without his "support" I wouldn't make it on my own. The trauma I endured before him made me think he was right. I believed that in order to make it in this world, I had to have his help and "support".

Last year the stress was too much for me and I became severely depressed. When he saw the degree of my depression, he allowed me to see a therapist. My therapist helped me see that those things I've listed above were my ex's way of controlling me and keeping me with him. Over several months I was able to leave him and start a life on my own. I benefited in now way from the relationship; I didn't have the means to leave and I didn't think I was strong enough.

 

[Nicolette]

Could you elaborate on this? Why in the world would you put up with behavior that was harmful to you unless you got something, some need met or wish fulfillment.

I disagree in the sense that initially it is nothing conscious so I believe some women don't do it knowingly to fulfill a need which an outside observer may identify. All humans have a basic need but I don't like it being entwined as a need strong enough for you to consciously get abused or put yourself in that situation.

Liken it be brought up in poverty & not knowing other wise. Gravitation to what is familiar and known.

I'll have to come back to this sorry.....

 

[Loner]

3. Over the many years I was with him he always told me how I was a failure. Without his "support" I wouldn't make it on my own. The trauma I endured before him made me think he was right. I believed that in order to make it in this world, I had to have his help and "support".
I benefited in now way from the relationship; I didn't have the means to leave and I didn't think I was strong enough.

Ok, let me clarify, benefiting, and getting something from it, are two very different things.

I did NOT benefit from my relationship with my parents. Well, I mean, thats a bit of a bad example because they did do SOME things. They were horrible, but they fed me, taught me to read, bought me some things, etc, but since I'm comparing my relationship with them to that of abusive and abused romantic partners, lets fast forward to when I am an adult, and by THEN I didn't benefit from keeping in contact with them at all. Staying in touch with them had a horrible effect on me, there really weren't any positive effects, yet still, I continued, because I did get things out of it. These werent beneficial, but they were things that I thought I needed at the time. I was desperate for love and approval, didn't believe anyone else would ever give me these things, so I kept trying to get them from my parents. I did not benefit from it, but there were times I got a little bit of gratification of my desires for love and approval.

My relationship with my brother followed the cycle of abusive behavior pretty much exactly. He would be constantly mean to me until I got sick of it, blew up at him, became violent, or just decided I didn't want anything to do with him and avoided him. At this point, he would act all apologetic, say he was going to be nice to me, he'd be different, etc. This is the time when I got something desirable from him. I was so desperate for love, the moments when he would act nice to me were so appealing that I convinced myself again and again, oh now he will be different, he really sounds like he means it this time. I convinced myself of this because I wanted it to be true so badly. I wanted to be loved.

This is why I said its important to understand what you got from the relationship. I know its different for everyone, and perhaps I don't know as much as I like to think, but I believe that in order to put up with abuse, there must be times when the abused feels like they are special, cared for, and has hope that the abuser will change or get better. Even if the only moments of tenderness are apologies, I think abused people are still so desperate for that tenderness that they become willing to put up with hell just to get a little of it.

Being aware of these things in ourselves is also how we make sure we don't repeat the same pattern over and over again.

I disagree in the sense that initially it is nothing conscious so I believe some women don't do it knowingly to fulfill a need which an outside observer may identify. All humans have a basic need but I don't like it being entwined as a need strong enough for you to consciously get abused or put yourself in that situation.

Never said it was anything conscious, and perhaps my initial wording wasn't as clear as it could be. Come back to it if you like.

Despite the fact that this is a sensitive subject for me with regards to my family, I kind of am a natural debater and enjoy it to some extent. In the guns thread that was appropriate, in this one, not so much, as this is very sensitive subject matter for many of us, so I am trying to restrain myself.

Take as much time as you need. I'm curious to hear what you have to say.

 

[Philippa]

First, as a side note, I'll say I'm not sure he was taking out his issues about his mother on you. Some people just like to hurt others. You can create a story as to what happened to them that made them that way, but I am inclined to say its just an excuse, and part of the whole 'lost little boy' thing.

I think you're right, in fact, while I was typing that out a part of me stopped and questioned it, but I talked myself into continuing it. I think he was just sadistic...but I know that he had real issues with his mother, and expressed hatred for her at various times. He had been molested but wouldn't elaborate by whom, so I don't feel comfortable assuming it was her...but it's possible?

I do know he was sadistic though, and the voice in me screamed at me that he would hurt me if I stayed. I really played with fire for a time...and I've found that I do that sometimes. I've done that before when I lived with a man years ago.

I know that I did provoke the first man to punch me one day when we were fighting about something, but he stopped himself...and i could see at that moment while he had his fist in the air and me pinned against the bedrooom wall, that he was trying with everything he had not to punch me. I don't know why I did that, as I have never had violence in my family life? I was in crisi from soem other stuff I'd been through, so I was very depressed, and not really myself, and had no support system. I was on my own and acting bizarrely.

My father never hit us with his hands...though he did keep an elephants tail that I seem to have a memory of him using on me...but now that I am typing this out, I am actually questioning whether that actually happened? It doesn't feel real right now, and I'm wodnering if it is a false memory? I know at one time in the past I was sure he had whipped me with it...but now I don't know? It feels like i'm making that up?

More importantly, you got something from him, something you liked and thought you needed. Thats why you kept going back.

I got cuddles and the feeling of safety and protection. He also promised that if I ever needed a place to stay I could move into the spare room and was emphatic that I would never be homeless again. Before I met him, I'd just moved into a place after having been homeless for three months, from leaving a place I was living in where the lease holder attacked me after we got in a fight one day. I wasn't totally innocent either, but he really got in my space.

So, he knew that I needed that sense of security, as my experience had left me fearing it happening again with the people I lived with at the time. Plus, it was nice to find someone I could speak candidly about my parents with, as he was also open about not liking his parents much and encouraged me to stay away from my brother when he tried to get me to do a home made porn film with his sex partner (while he filmed it.)...and also took me to the police when a man choked me during sex one time at a festival, and spat on me and all this other stuff that I definitely didn't give him consent or permission to do.

The weird thing was that he helped me and got all outraged when that happened, but HE did the same thing himself!

I stayed in denial about my family for years. First I cut off contact with my brother, then my mom, then a couple years later my dad, but it took a LONG time. Even when I knew they didn't treat me the way they should, I still stayed in contact with them because I just wanted to be loved and feel special so bad, and there were moments I felt little pieces of that from them. I would guess the reasons women keep going back to or stay with abusive men are similar, they get something they want out of it, but its something they feel they can't get anywhere else. Yes he is horrible to me, but he really cares, and I'm not good enough for anyone to care about me without being horrible, so I guess its better than nothing...

Yeah, it took me a long time too before I ould cut it off with them. I still let my brother in even now, and he still proves time and again that I am better off not having him in my life...but I still feel this strong sense of wanting to help him because I know something happened to him when he was a kid, and that's how this all started with them, because dad found my diary and read it, and I had written a secret in it from when I was 16, saying that I strongly intuited that he had done something to my little brother...and I didn't know what to do about it.

He lied about how he ended up reading my diary and then turned both my brothers against me for what I'd writte,...but what did he expect. The man OPENLY would brag about hanging out with a well known pedophile who was very rich, and make out like he was somehow "cultured" for supporting him, just because pedophilia was acceptable in Greek times!

It disgusted me but I felt like emotionally I needed them, as it's better the devil you know, and I'd just been raped and was clinically depressed and had PTSD. They were the only people in the world that I HAD, and I needed people...even if they weren't understanding or even kind to me or helpful...which they weren't, at all.

I could be wrong but thats how it seems to me.

This makes me so sad. I realized a while ago that I was so lonely, desperate for approval and validation and had so little self esteem that I'm almost positive if I was a woman I would of gotten into an abusive relationship.

I'm actually not like this, as much as that might sound like I'm in denial.

Yes, I was alone, and lonely at times, but I have been learning to look inside for many years now and approve of myself. I think that is why I was able to leave at all. Most women who get into these situations don't leave for many years, and some never do. I stayed because I needed human warmth and touch, and he was close to me, geographically.

He lived up the road and it was convenient...but not healthy. I hadn't had a hug in years, and he constantly affirmed that if anyone gave me any trouble he'd 'take care of them'. He is a big guy and very physically strong. I needed to feel safe and protected, and wasn't feeling like I was strong enough at the time or safe.

I didn't go back the second time, and I haven't gone back or seen him since. I saw him get on my tram a few months ago, and I got off it as soon as I saw him get on. It's possible that I fell back into thinking I needed approval from people outside of me, but that is something I have been aware of for many years and worked hard to overcome, so I'm not sure your assessment is right in this case, but maybe?

I will say that he represented certain aspects of my father that aren't positive for me, and I think that may have been an unconscious factor in why I attracted him into my life. I was in my mid 30's when I met him, and this is often a time in a woman's life when they choose partners who remind them of their father to try and get their needs met from when they were kids. It's an illusionary thing, as the woman needs to learn to meet her own needs, but it's also a pattern for familiarity that she has in her psyche, which attracts people who remind her of her father.

He displayed many similar behavioral aspects of my father, including invalidation and other emotionally abusive behavior.

 

[Philippa]

I did NOT benefit from my relationship with my parents. Well, I mean, thats a bit of a bad example because they did do SOME things. They were horrible, but they fed me, taught me to read, bought me some things, etc, but since I'm comparing my relationship with them to that of abusive and abused romantic partners, lets fast forward to when I am an adult, and by THEN I didn't benefit from keeping in contact with them at all. Staying in touch with them had a horrible effect on me, there really weren't any positive effects, yet still, I continued, because I did get things out of it. These werent beneficial, but they were things that I thought I needed at the time. I was desperate for love and approval, didn't believe anyone else would ever give me these things, so I kept trying to get them from my parents. I did not benefit from it, but there were times I got a little bit of gratification of my desires for love and approval.

I do still fall into this thinking with my mother. I have fallen for her crap so many times now because I want more than anything for her to just be a mother to me. It's like the emotional need for that overrides all my wisdom and knowing that she just isn't capable of being for me what I need, because she is a child herself, and operates unconsciously in a lot of ways...passes on her abuse to me without even knowing the damage she does.

My relationship with my brother followed the cycle of abusive behavior pretty much exactly. He would be constantly mean to me until I got sick of it, blew up at him, became violent, or just decided I didn't want anything to do with him and avoided him. At this point, he would act all apologetic, say he was going to be nice to me, he'd be different, etc. This is the time when I got something desirable from him. I was so desperate for love, the moments when he would act nice to me were so appealing that I convinced myself again and again, oh now he will be different, he really sounds like he means it this time. I convinced myself of this because I wanted it to be true so badly. I wanted to be loved.

This is just how I am with my little brother.

He is really mean and horrible to me, and has been for the past 15 years, and shown no sign of it changing, but I still hold onto the hope that he will change, and my mother recently put it in my head that he had, which is why I gave him another chance...no chance...he hasn't changed a lick, he still does the same old crap and then apologizes later and acts like it will be different next time, and it never is.

I keep making excuses for him because something happened to him, he was sexually abused by someone...but enough's enough. It's not my problem, it's HIS and he needs to deal with it, but he isn't. He just keeps taking drugs and escaping and abusing me, when all I want to do is be there for him and help him, because I know that I am actually really good at empathizing and helping people heal with their stuff, with art and other tools I know that bring out the inner healer.

I've worked on myself a lot and am studying to be an art therapist, but one thing I know is that it's a waste of my time and energy trying to help someone who doesn't want my help and isn't ready to help themselves...and he isn't.

This is why I said its important to understand what you got from the relationship.

It is important to recognise what you get from it, and then you have the option of deciding whether the pay off is worth it, and act from your true self and not be dragged around by your unconscious needs that will only lead to more disappointment and damage.

I know its different for everyone, and perhaps I don't know as much as I like to think, but I believe that in order to put up with abuse, there must be times when the abused feels like they are special, cared for, and has hope that the abuser will change or get better. Even if the only moments of tenderness are apologies, I think abused people are still so desperate for that tenderness that they become willing to put up with hell just to get a little of it.

I don't like to admit that this is the case with me, but it might very well be what keeps me hanging in there and unwilling to let him go. It's strange because I have no problem not ever talking to my middle brother again...but with my youngest, I have real trouble. I'm the eldest and I was always very protective of my little brother. I think there may be some unconscious guilt there that I wasn't able to protect him from whoever hurt him...and now I feel like I have to put up with it or something?

It's worth further exploration though. Thanks.

Being aware of these things in ourselves is also how we make sure we don't repeat the same pattern over and over again.

Agreed.

 

[Loner]

Well I'm glad you're able to see this stuff now.

 

[Anna]

It makes me shudder to think I allowed one of these evil people into my life. I am so glad I got away and made a good life for myself. I now have self confidence and got out of these self destrutive behaviours. It shocks me to think why these people want to inflict this suffering on others. I sends a shiver down my spine. I am so glad I got away.

 

[EddieP]

@piratelady; you perfectly described what my fiancee tells me about her ex. Manipulation of finances held her in the house for YEARS. She saw no exit strategy and struggled for years to set up a way out when her daughter graduated, then got pregnant again before it happened. So then HE divorced her (he was having multiple affairs and married his secretary within 5 months of the divorce) and used the younger child to take everything away from her....then with the help of a scum-bag lawyer, took the younger daughter as well.

I think this pattern of behavior is a LOT more common than most people believe. There are a lot of people out there that treat their "partners" differently behind closed doors. Some of those people are community leaders, church-going, and give the impression that they are wonderful people. All the while they are abusing their wife and children, terrorizing their neighbors, and making this world a stink-hole!

I taught in the public schools for years and I can tell you there is a LOT of this behavior going on EVEN in the teenage years. I have learned a lot from this board and recognize what I thought was just mildly destructive behavior at the time to be abusive predatory action!!

 

[mamachick]

I dated this man for almost 2 years. It was exactly as stated. However, he was our marriage counselor a couple years before, so he had a clear advantage of my vulnerablity. Also, as things began sexual, I still had some esteem and knew what I liked and didnt. That is when he introduced pot into all sexual encounters. My gut was telling me something was going on. Sex was almost a ritual-same beginning every time. He was obsessed with anal sex as well. I remember clearly saying the nose and but are exit only. That is when I think he started drugging me. I could remember the hottub before all sex, and the beginning, around 11 or 12 pm, the next I remember is 6 am, and he still had not gotten off. I began with UTI's regularly. Then I had a a cervix so tore up than my gynecologist thought that I had endrometrial cancer and did a biopsy.

I also started having a stalker. He offered to stay with me to protect me. Once I was becoming real confused-how could I not listen to my gut, how could I think this wonderful man could be doing these things, then he started using analysis to figure out what happened in my past to cause such distrust. It is one nightmare that I am glad is over. Its been 8 yrs since any contact, but I have begun to have visions of what happened during the blackouts of sex. I dont know if it is my mind guessing, or it is real memories that have been blocked. Sometimes its a flashback, others are nightmares. Since then, I entered another relationship where sex was gentle and great, but he was a liar and put a gun on me several times. I tried to help him. I did not realize the similiarites until reading this. He was not a sexual sadist. He was maybe less sick. I dont know, but I can not become sexually involved at this point in my life-and maybe never. Yet I have had sex, I froze and did it. It was bad. It was like I could see myself but it wasnt me. I am afraid to say no.

Neither ever hit me or directly threatened my kids during the relationship The second did attack me at the end after he lost his job and forced me to go to another state with him. He was arrested with 3 loaded guns and 2 knives.. I had no symptoms of ptsd before, so dormant they may have been, but alive and kicking they are now. I go to therapy, but have had no real trauma therapy.

This is an amazing article profiling this kind of man. As a woman that was not raised around any males, I am really stupid about how men are. I think I am scared of them all. I try to trust just a bit, but something always bad happens. Some might think me of a man hater-I told my therapist this, she said I am not. Trusting anyone is difficult for me. I have a handful of people I can trust. I think I just feel so stupid at not knowing who to trust. I know I have to learn to trust my gut.

Thank you for article-most accurate thing I have read or related to in a long time.

 

[anthony]

Open

 

[somerandomguy]

I missed this article previously. I'm a little bit freaked out because it described the final years of my first marriage pretty well. The difference is, of course, that it's not supposed to (can't?) happen to me, a man - doubly so since the abuser was my wife, a woman.

I thought I'd finally accepted being a male victim. But this article is pretty clear that men are the perps, not the victims. I guess the reverse can sometimes be true, but I struggle with this.

Edit: my apologies. Didn't mean to shit on this thread. Not my thread to comment on. Bowing out.

 

[Mach123]

It's funny when you think a thing this sexist could pass muster. Take out the sexes of the individual s and publish it again and we can talk about it? Does anyone really think women don't do this? How about gay etc relationships? What's it mean about that?