Can you lose your soul? PTSD and emotional "reduction"

[Abstract]

Me too. Again, religion isn't my thing for various reasons but I am a strong believer in approaching things, seeing things or treating things in a way that works for us as individuals. For example I am not religious or spiritual but totally respect others spirituality and choices.

 

[manyquestions]

At the moment I don't have a lot of new information to share. My PTSD seems to betting better every day now and I've become way more rational the last days but the soul issue is still the same and it's far worse than PTSD for me. I always knew I can overcome my PTSD but getting back my soul? I'm not so sure. When it comes to the silver chord - I've never heard of it but I thought about it.. I'm just not sure. It feel's like theres a hole where my soul was. At the moment that's all I can sense. I also was in contact with my soul despite having PTSD so I think that PTSD and the soul issue are different but without PTSD all these things wouldn't have happend to me. Like I said I attribute my soul loss to my abusive behaviour caused by PTSD, the obnoxiously unempathic social support I had and the pain killer I was taking. It's so f*cking sad. My whole life I was a good person(although not necessarily a virtuous one if you know what I mean. ) despite having a huge ego due to ignorant people causing me endless amounts of pain my whole life. Sometimes I felt that a lot of people have more similiarity with animals than real humans but I always knew that's just my ego talking and I shouldn't judge people and have empathy instead, that I am not better than anyone else. I had such a strong will and self-control but the combination I mentioned above just overwhelmed my system. It definitetly doesn't mean you're a bad person. In my case that wouldn't make any sense because I really was in great pain my whole life and harming someone for 2 weeks who was willfully more or less ignorant I mean come on.
I hope I don't portray myself as a victim here. I don't mean it like that. I'm just so scared that my life as I knew it is over now because for a short time in my life I didn't have the self-control of a machine.

 

[shimmerz]

the soul issue is still the same and it's far worse than PTSD for me

Again, religion isn't my thing for various reasons but I am a strong believer in approaching things,

I had to think about this for a while. Thanks for pointing this out. I too had serious religious issues as a child being pushed down my throat. I am neither spiritual nor religious, so please forgive if I wasn't clear. My Higher Self I use as a container and external reference point for my sense of purpose. I relate my soul (as some call it) to my sense of purpose - the reason I am here. The purpose of all of this suffering. Which I believe we all need.

As an external source of reference for my purpose, my Higher Self is the place I go to try to reattach to my sense of purpose. It isn't an icon for any type of religious or spiritual ideal. It is the place that I direct myself to when I don't feel I have enough strength to continue on, or don't understand why I am continuing on. The silver cord is a direct line between my body (which was frequently f*cked up beyond belief) and my purpose. If I can't get to my higher self (purpose), then my being able to hold onto the cord and try to walk to the Higher Self acts as a means of visualizing that I am trying to reach this grounding point, even if I am not successful in reaching full grounding, I know I am holding onto something. This process I use is about grounding myself - it has no religious or spiritual basis. This process is based on logic. If I can't find grounding within myself, then I have to create one. Otherwise I am just spinning out all over the place.

I think because I was thrown into these crazy altered states of reality regularly, I had to really rely on building external reference points when I was trying to ground. So I use visualizations that I have set up so that I could ground to them when my body was lost to me. I visualized my heart if I felt unloved/unlovable/misunderstood etc. This is what I mean when I speak of body, heart, mind and soul. Don't know if that makes any more sense to anyone, but thought I would post this as a possible clarification.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[ILoveLife]

I think this issue @manyquestions, is related to two things: First, guilt. Second, taking unregulated drugs with a mental illness and the behaviors and consequences attached to that.

Regardless of my beliefs of a soul even existing (nobody really knows and a lot of people make money out of saying they do know), I think this is an issue of substance abuse and the effects that had on your psyche.

I used a lot of drugs in my life and they left "scars" in my brain, as my pdoc puts it. So I take meds for it, work with a therapist on neuroplasticity and well - what about it? - I get better!

So, I really think that as long as I thought this was a fate or soul thing (because I did) I didn't get better. Just when I realized, like @Sideways said, it's an injury and it can be treatable, I did get better.
You can even think about it as an injury to the soul, really, whatever makes you feel better about it. In reality, we're not conditioned by whatever thoughts are pushed our way, but we have creativity enough to make up our own thoughts on the matters. Depending on how hopeless we're feeling towards what happened to us, that will also shape our belief systems.

 

[manyquestions]

At heart I am a rationalist. I really am a fan of the scientific method which means approaching reality by using reason and evidence. As an open and somewhat empathic person I am also tolerant of other approaches like religion, spiritual stuff and so on. I find them useful myself from time to time.

After rereading some of my former posts I can see that I have trouble communicating clearly at the moment and that they are confusing sometimes. It is related to the issues I've mentioned here before. I can really relate to the post of Seitz in that regard.
You're right. I feel a lot of guilt. Maybe too much. On the other hand I am still not convinced that the "soul issue"* is related to that. I really had worse times when it comes to the things you've mentioned and my soul was 100% there. I think the pain killer caused the abusive behaviour and this kind of personality switch where I felt like my abuser took over for 2 weeks. I think this is very important. I still feel like I am possesed by my abuser. I still feel like the personality of the abuser (who was devoid of a soul ) sits on my real personaliy so to speak. Like a demonic possesion. I'm serious. I know this sounds extremely unlikely and weird but this is is what is happening to me. Even my voice and use of words is sometimes more close to my abuser. This somehow led to the issue I am facing now.

*what I mean by that is the deepest feelings I was capable of, the spiritual perspective on life. It is closely related to the third eye when I think about it. It's not only that I am not in contact with that side of me but I also lack an additional sense so to speak and therefore I lack valuable information. If someones possesses this kind of emotional depth/sight you can easily recognize them if you have that yourself but now the same people seem empty to me where I saw the same light in them I used to have. It's horrible. I know how new agey this all may sound. I just trust my senses too much to ignore something like that.
Dead Link Removed

This process is based on logic. If I can't find grounding within myself, then I have to create one. Otherwise I am just spinning out all over the place.

This is exactly the thing I thought about two days ago. It makes a lot of sense to me and this is also the point I am struggling with the most at the moment. I also really like your explanation. It helped me to see that I'm not the only one struggling with a grounding in myself. I also had some grounding methods although I didn't use that term for it but I also struggle to visualize anything since the soul loss happened. After PTSD I really felt the meaninglessness of life to the point where I questioned the only thing I still believe(d) in - morality and empathy. I really didn't know anymore if we actually can change anything. Now I am a little bit more hopeful again and I try to find some ways to find back to the light. Like I said a lot of the stuff has to do with thinking too much about what happened to me. I wanted a quick fix so I tried to solve my trauma as quick as possible but sometimes it's better to push these thoughts out of your head and do something different for a while.

 

[shimmerz]

I still feel like the personality of the abuser (who was devoid of a soul ) sits on my real personaliy so to speak. Like a demonic possesion.

Yep. I understand this.

Is there any way that you can isolate what feels like the personality of your abuser? By that I mean can you turn it into a sight/sound/smell/feel? I know you said you had lost your visualization skills -- so rather than visualize can you assign it a smell (shit or whatever), taste (bitter melon?)..... just suggestions but the idea is that if you can isolate whatever 'feels' like the abuser, if you make it into something outside of yourself (which is the incorporation into one of your senses), it has been, for me, much easier to work with.

The cleaving was the key for me. Once I externalized whatever I was working with, I could take it 'out of me' at will and I had access to feeling more like me. Again, no idea if I am typing this in such a way that it makes sense.

 

[Freida]

TSD is like a cancer of the psyche. As

I'm a stealing this!!!! It is a perfect description!

 

[Ronin]

I think the pain killer caused the abusive behaviour and this kind of personality switch where I felt like my abuser took over for 2 weeks. I think this is very important.

Okay, first: Drugs do not cause abuse, abuse causes abuse. That some cause a lot of things that may lead to thinking abuse is a good (or the only possible) choice, is a different matter.

for 2 weeks

Unless you would be doing heinious things in the meantime, two weeks should not be such a long
time to leave a quote lasting, irreparable damage.

And if you were, we would not be speaking now, most likely, as you would be either in prison, or on the run, or gone.

I still feel like I am possesed by my abuser.

Feelings as if the perpetrator are common. But they are that, they are feelings.
They are not a reality. You do not transform to a person that caused you grief.
Nor are they present in your life just because you think of them, very intensely.

Like a demonic possesion. I'm serious.

See above. It is common. Nothing supernatural about.

But willing to take the supernatural angle for a bit, and assuming personalities can transmigrate to others, and cause havoc: There are so many ways to deal with *that*, all essentially amounting to, ground in the now, soothing sensations, things that do not trigger you to trauma, that demarcate a line between then, and Now+It is over. Things that are rituals to be rid of the past, and provide closure, and beginning of a new life.

So what is it that you need, in order to move forward?
I mean beside getting rid of all that.
What your other needs, that would make your life better, in the NOW?

 

[hithere]

Body Keeps the Score by Bessel VandeKolk has a chapter and it includes the concept of "Soul Murder" I just can't believe you can't get your soul back. I think some of these responses are very interesting. Regarding you screaming (rage?) at a family member and how something happened, -- I wonder if you made an "inner vow" that you would NEVER do that to someone, or an inner vow that you would never be unkind or hurtful. Inner Vows made in childhood are so powerful and really need to be addressed. The cognitive people would call that a cognitive distortion I think. Spiritual way of saying it is "inner vows" I could see how breaking an inner vow unintentionally-or something happens that is against your inner vow and you do something you've vowed to never, ever do -- that would cause a separation from your soul-like an unforgivable sin. I'm not that good or knowledgeable about it, but in the past I went through an exercise of uncovering inner vows, releasing my self from those by "changing my mind" about it-breaking the vow--etc.

 

[Ronin]

that would cause a separation from your soul-like an unforgivable sin.

(But there is also the concept of all sins being basically forgivable, not something that sticks to you if you change your ways, to flip back to that belief of damaged by sins soul. ?)

 

[Reflections]

Have you seen a therapist yet?

At heart I am a rationalist. I really am a fan of the scientific method which means approaching reality by using reason and evidence.

If so, shouldn't factual, concerete theories of mental health be explored first with a professional therapist or psychotherapist? Since these would be easier to cross off the list of possibilities and narrow down the search. Before exploring complex, untangle spiritual realities that are harder to confirm or deny?

 

[manyquestions]

First let me say that I'm grateful for your contributions and I really regret not reaching out sooner. It really gives me hope in a seemingly hopeless situation.

@hithere @Ronin I instantly bought the book! I also read something about that among the dozens of articles about the topic I've read so far. The trauma I experienced was a kind of
( attempted) soul murder. I just don't want to get into the details but this is definitetly true. I did that in response to my childhood when I witnessed and experienced a lot of violence therefore I understood first-hand the devastating effects it can have on your body and mind short-term and in the long run. I never wanted to be like my parents so I made such a vow to never initiate force against another and it also felt like I broke that vow on that day.
I know that I should focus on my needs but I have trouble finding joy in anything at the moment. It's kind of hard to enjoy anything without (access to) emotions.

After my .. soul loss .. I also experienced a range of unusal experiences . I woke up in the middle of the night and suddenly felt on some level how small I am compared to the universe. Maybe that's normal for other people but for me it was the first time I experienced that. I certainly didn't think that it was some kind of awakening but it made me wonder nonetheless why this happened to me at this point.
Even more interesting to me is that I dreamt of my father. In the dream I was sitting with him in our old family car and he looked at me while my body was transforming into something monstrous like a deforming skin disease. I heard that my father was diagnosed as having Borderline Personality Disorder a long time ago. He might as well also be a narcissist like my mother or suffer from both disorders. I didn't have much conversation with my dad at all so I barely know him. I was always afraid to be become like him so this dream was like a warning shot for me. I haven't seen him in years. (No Contact)

Disclaimer: This is a lot of layman speculation and my personal observations. Please don't take it too seriously but I'm desperatetly looking for an answer.
I think I might have (had) a mix of my parents issues. I think that isn't a surprise as personalities are contagious and especially in your formative years where you absorb everything like a sponge. I had it more or less under control my whole life although it caused me a lot of trouble. I noticed narcissistic defenses arising in me when I was 12* so I always knew that this was an issue I had to get under control. It shows up in the way I perceive situations and how I'm somtimes not able to really take the perspective and feelings of another person in account intutively/emotionally. I also fear and loathe intimacy although I know that's what I really need. When I was younger I also had grandiose self-image which I hated to have because I really didn't identify with this image at all intellectually. I have to use my mind for a lot of these tasks because the emotional nuances of situations and people are often lost on me although I'm very good when it comes to reading facial cues. That's why a lot of people thought of me as a true empath although I am not capable of emotional empathy most of the time. My empathy is more cognition-based rather than emotional in nature. Besides certain drugs nothing has helped against that so far. I hope that this makes even remotely sense to anyone who isn't familiar with the issue. Despite all of that I have to say that I don't see myself as disordered. I rather think that I haven't met the right people for me yet and I had to protect myself from the world due to my high sensitvity (which I may have lost now). I can always provide clarification if someone is interested in that kind of dialogue.

*I can clearly see the reasons for that. I grew up with parents who were demonstrating a complete lack of empathic attunement towards me coupled with violence, excessive praise and neglectful/non-existing parenting. Both my parents were devoid of empathy. I think I picked up a great deal of my empathy from a good friend of mine when I was younger.


@Reflections I just had so many bad experiences with therapists I gave up on them.
My current/former therapist made my life worse. In defense of the noble profession I have to say that I demonstrated a lack of good judgement/empathy when I unfortunately chose him to be my therapist. I was at rock bottom at the time. I had five intital sessions with about 5 therapists and I became tired of looking for another in my severley depressed state so I settled for someone who I suspected to have a similar history to mine because I thought: a) he would be able to empathize with me better and b) he would try harder because of the similiar history c) he obviously had a lot of experience. I had wild ideas about some people's capacity for rational thinking back then.. boy was I naive. I told him a lot of true stuff about myself and he told me that I'm wrong. Years later it turned out everything I told him in the beginning was true he just didn't want to believe it because he was subconcsiously defending his father and a lot of other nonsense. I had to find that out myself because he didn't even admit that he made a lot of mistakes before I had confronted him. He wasn't ashamed after that and he even tried to minimize his mistakes although he admitted that he made mistakes in the end. That's the danger of seeing mediocre therapists and the supposedly good ones have waiting lists up to a year and a half here.
That said I try to look for a better therapist now.

In the meantime I try as hard as I can to figure the problem out myself. I don't know of course what kind of crazy good therapist you have but just your posts were much more beneficial to me than a lot of the therapy that I.. endured. If it works for other people that's really great but I've become skeptical of therapy(therapists?) and I was a strong advocate before all of that.

@shimmerz I thought about how I can separate that part from me again but I didn't come up with a solution. I thought about analyzing myself rigorously and then I just try to not act on the abuser parts till they die out so to speak but I will try your solution and maybe it works for me too.

I know this post is a little bit of a rant but you can't imagine how surreal and grotesque it all seems to me after I put the pieces together. It's not a pretty cat picture. I can tell you that.