News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

[Tinyflame]

@RuffledFeathers I just saw your response, you do not have to apologize, not at all. I hope you are feeling a bit better. :hug:

It occurred to me, and after seeing something on tv today I will say it: I think there is something not everyone understands, or thinks of from their experiences: with rejection or abuse or lack of care or connection to a FOO (or no family at all); with losses and limitations occupationally, personally, physically; with the knowledge of having no chance to have a spouse, to grieve not being able to have children, to suffer physical pain, chronically, to suffer emotional pain, and insomnia and nightmares and FB's, and anxiety, fear or horror, +/or depression, to feel no sense of a future, to mistrust the simplest of things, inside and out, to suffer survivor's guilt, or moral injury, and perhaps be even unable to self advocate for the simplest of realities many take for granted, makes for a great 'alone'-ness: if one cries, it is alone, suffers it is alone, fears there is no comfort. Sometimes, or often, or always, no one is there. Certainly never there 'within one's head', to the frequency these things have to be faced, or surface. We as people say we care, but do we really? And do others care for us? (This forum is an example of where people do, and put the presence in.)

On top of it I read one of the greatest sufferings is to feel one's life has no meaning.

Fighting through these things, I don't believe, can happen with logical arguments, since it really isn't a logical argument that decreases that perception (perceived reality) of alone-ness, with the exception of people who've come out the other side (and often still battle with it every day- even if others see them laughing, and believe what they will, or judge harshly; I think it doesn't cross the mind of most of the cumulative effects and pain of so many losses). Which is why I think the majority of people who request it are in hospice (proposed as one alternative solution). Yet no one I've been with, present with, has ever voiced it. Maybe because they weren't alone. Idk. In hospice they aren't alone per se, either, but just how worthwhile do they feel?

I suppose what I'm trying to say (but missed the edit window), after another story on the news today, is that the arguments are always for or against, but there's never mention really of the what and why's and where for's of why and how a person comes to that point. And beginning by listening, and understanding.

 

[frogthroat]

read one of the greatest sufferings is to feel one's life has no meaning.

I do believe that's true. I think children from those situations have a tendency towards wanting everyone else to fix them as adults because their childhoods were so awful or they're stubborn and they don't want to relinquish any remaining pride to get help. Sometimes you have to wait until you're nearly dead to seek professional help. At least, I know that's how it was for me. I've been on both ends of the spectrum as far as "you owe me love" and "I can handle myself." Both are extremes and never work. Forming healthy relationships are a whole other depressing enigma.
Also, what's a FOO? Lol I'm confused.

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh , hee. Family Of Origin @RuffledFeathers . Looks funny written. :)

I am stubborn but can't say I fit in either end of the Bell curve of saving or pride; rather one doesn't seek what could not come, help that is. Love is never owed, or possible, help not an option or entitlement. One learns to keep quiet, I suppose, or disappear quietly.

Idk, I don't like to 'hope' in helpful things to avoid the disappointment when/ if they can't occur. I try or 'hope', but often it's an uphill battle, and something makes it not possible, in the end. So now I see those situations as not meant to be, for me. Which I try to think of as not an indication I am not included in healing things, that it doesn't mean I'm not worth it, but not meant to be means the same thing (in my heart) I suppose - not meant to be from even a Higher Source. Or/ and, I think it's just me making more out of it than I should, I am not so in need as others and should just 'get over it'.

Best wishes to you. :hug:

 

[frogthroat]

I don't think I could've put what I've been feeling in the last year anymore eloquently then that. If that isn't spot on to what most trauma survivors feel then Idk what is.

 

[Tinyflame]

What's ironic to me, is the person who the Supreme Court decision in their favour applied to, wouldn't have now met the criteria of a 'foreseeable death', their condition was chronic. And all of this, is predicated upon reducing unbearable suffering and incapacitation that has a foreseeable end, versus 'ending life'. But what about unbearable suffering +/or incapatitation without a foreseeable end? Does that make the suffering somehow less, and with the duration being longer, less suffering? I fail to see the logic.

 

[Tinyflame]

This has been back in the news here the last few days; most people who comment are for it, for all cases. Funny, even a person who is disabled (and intimately 'in the know') of dealing with those challenges daily, referred to care as being once a day (a person would need to be repositioned every 2 hours however); equally however the current ruling political party has an agenda to privatize both home and many health-care based services, and have done so for the programs for some of the most disadvantaged, leaving even that 'care' or a great deal of it only accessible for the wealthy. Which kills me, since they are the party that touts 'pro-life' agendas.

I believe that the answers are individual- and that actually they are correct, What is left out, or misdirected (IMHO) is not debating how much suffering is there, or a comparison of it, nor a fear of a slippery slope. What is never mentioned, is having something to live or fight for. Because without that, rich or poor alike are opting for it (no kidding).

 

[littleoc]

Someone should set up a study for people who have healed from PTSD and actually take a look at their brains to see what physically changed. Maybe genomes to see if there's anything in common, though that is probably way too broad a topic. I just feel like there should be proof that PTSD isn't a fatal illness, and is treatable. Quality of life can be improved enough to enjoy life. Hell, a lot of us here have no idea what "childhood" means, and have managed to gain a reasonable quality of life. I, personally, may even be able to avoid getting another service dog!

The problem is that I can't speak for everyone, though I promise I was once the complete opposite of an optimist. And, to be fair, my therapy started when I was thirteen years old, after I managed to get power over my main abuser. (It didn't exactly end the abuse -- that continued into my early 20s (earlier than now, about a year ago).) But, I imagine there should be hard evidence around somewhere -- even now -- that shows that people who suffer from PTSD should attempt other ways of getting well. (Unless they don't want to, I guess?)

Even still, I think it would be an extremely individual thing. But I'd still be very, very worried about the concept. I just wish I knew enough to argue the point better.

 

[shimmerz]

I just feel like there should be proof that PTSD isn't a fatal illness, and is treatable.

It is if society doesn't support one in their healing. It can get real ugly real fast and once sucked into the vortex of homelessness and poverty, there actually isn't any help without divine intervention.

It would be helpful if psychiatrists (in Canada) actually knew WTF they were talking about too rather than putting people onto a slew of medications and toddling their 'patients' on home (if they have one).

The cost of a psychologist (who generally know what trauma is and how to help) is generally not within reach of someone who is symptomatic and spiralling downwards into the loss, confusion, and utter chaos of trauma. That usually leads to more trauma. Rinse and repeat.

As a society we need to care about this suffering. We simply don't.

 

[Justmehere]

The spiral of trauma, mental illness, lack of ability to afford care, homelessness and more trauma is devastating. Society should indeed pay greater attention and care to this.

Euthanasia will increase the societal lack of care.

When humans know someone will leave them in the most ordinary of circumstances, they invest less in that person. I see it all the time in the job. When someone announces they are leaving in 2 weeks or even 2 months, people pull away. They don’t always mean to do so, it’s subconscious.

When euthanasia is an option for dogs to ease their pain, people use less heroic measures to save the dog. Same is true for humans.

As someone who has been at the bedside of those with terminal medical conditions very recently, I have a hard time putting my unhoused friends in the same category. Or even putting myself at my most actively suicidal in the same category.

But regardless, even in those situations, there is always some element of family and others pulling away and no longer investing in the person’s recovery as soon as hospice is an option. Even when there is a decent chance of living, and hospice is there on the table simply because things could go south fast.

There is still tremendous choice and hope for someone with PTSD (which is part of why it’s so horrible society writes sufferers off as they do) that someone with terminal brain cancer or heart failure does not have.

Even more so, as someone who at one point was wheelchair bound with a terrible prognosis, I can attest that society does not want to invest MORE in your life and recovery when they think you should have the choice to get help to leave this earth or that your pain would be unbearable for them to endure. When society thinks your condition is fatal or intolerable to even live, people become resigned and shut down. I have a friend who is blind and we have both heard plenty of people say they would kill themselves if they woke up blind. She faces the tangible reality that a lot of people don’t want to invest in people who are blind like they do the sighted because they see it as hopeless and the person forever limited.

The last thing society needs is the message that people with PTSD have lives that cannot ever improve and death is an option. It will totally backfire if the goal is to increase societal investment in recovery. Funding will drop.

But when people know you have s FIGHTiNG chance and if they don’t buck up people are not just going to quietly die in the comforts of a government-supported death, they are much more likely to take action. In the nonprofit sector, they have found it doesn’t motivate people to solve problems to focus on if-we-don’t-help-these-people-will-die. More effective fundraising happens when people know, if we help, this pain will lessen and there will be more joy.

If one wants society to care more about pain and suffering and to fund mental health care conditions, it’s counterproductive to start declaring treatable mental health conditions as fatal and death should be a supported option.

 

[shimmerz]

I agree with all of this in theory Junebug. unfortunately the reality of the situation is that without social supports and strong social support from society many of us don’t survive and we die in the most horrific of ways. Unwanted. Not cared about. Literally left for dead by those they once thought loved them. So tragic.

I think by the time we decided to go with the needle, we would’ve already have been left for debt by our family and friends. The only reason I didn’t I was because I refused. to die in a ditch. Maybe that makes a case in and of itself for choosing life but I have to tell you I was lucky.

12 friends in my area died this year during the cold of the winter. As a society we need to start facing what is actually happening out there as opposed to what we’re being told is happening out there. Homelessness makes mental illness, it isn’t necessarily mental illness makes homelessness.

 

[Tinyflame]

I agree with both of your posts above @shimmerz , (possibly you meant Justmehere ?).

The supports are a reflection of who and what we value, and making that investment to stand beside someone.

And I am very sorry about your friends, though not at all surprised. :(:cry::hug:

I realize even as per myself, with this, or it's counter-cousin SI, that it's consequences I fear, even consequences that are not my own directly. That is because I know the likely consequences, as I've either lived some version of them, or am aware of others having done so too.

 

[Justmehere]

In the US, 2.5 million children are homeless. In the US, 33 percent of the homeless are families. I do not think children and families should off themselves because of any struggle, including one to find and keep housing. They still all have lives of great value.

Homelessness is symptom of other complex problems that are not solved with death.

In all the discussions governments are having about euthenisa, I seriously fear the day government decides to support ending the lives of the homeless for being without homes. Holy moly that’s really going down a dark, dark path. I have not read any government in 2019 suggesting the homeless should be given the option to euthanize themselves with government paid help to do so. That’s so incredibly dangerous. So incredibly dangerous and dark.