The seeming fashion for labelling people toxic, narcissistic etc

[mylunareclipse]

Hi @Sideways. Thank you for your response.
I did not talk about my experience here, as the thread was about labeling people narcissists etc. It was not about how we suffer after abuse.
I do have a lot more to work on on this particular issue with my T. There's still open wounds, on which I have worked really hard for 4 years.
It was very important in my particular experience to label the abuse as narcissistic abuse in order to learn to detach from this person as well as understand that I wasn't going "crazy" per se. I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to accept that some of us might have been abused by sociopaths/narcissists etc. Does not mean that all narcissists are abusive, nor that all abusers are narcissists. Like I mentioned, I don't use this term lightly, I have had plenty of other abusers and I do not consider them narcissists. It's just honestly sad that after years of learning to slowly trust my sense and what happened to me, to come here on a forum and have someone tell me, it's your opinion, not the truth. Who is anyone to tell me what my truth is? One of the defining features of my abuse was indeed gaslighting and feeling like I was imagining stuff. I think, in an attempt to defend people who are narcissistic, but not abusive, this thread has gone too far on the other side and made it seem as though everyone saying they suffered from narcissistic abuse is doing so because it's trendy.

ETA: and it was important I emphasize to recognize that tactics as coming from someone who was narcissistic, as I had to learn to detach from this person, as well as not expect this person to act/behave in the way the average person does. I had to recognize how to act around this person for my sanity and protection. This is not the way I would normally behave around other people. I might even confront other people if they were hurting me. But with this person, it just wasn't possible. I had to slowly remove myself from the situation and to recognize any future behavior. It does matter to me to label my experience because it is what I went through. There's two parts to it: my suffering, but also the kind of abuse I went through. And the kind of abuse I went through is also important to label the abuser. For instance, why we say terrorist when someone bombs etc? Why do we say victim of terrorist act, rather than oh victim of violence/bombing etc? Why do we say victim of pedophile, rather than just rapist? etc etc. Words matter to those who suffered.

 

[ChildofGod]

Although I agree with some of what you said, Sideways, except adding for me, an important factor that:

this is a multigenerational problem

Because my DNA was read differently, my brain was developed differently,

I couldn't recognize or correlate who was safe and who wasn't after I left home, left my abuser.

only to be revictimized over and over again. Subconsiously picking a partner that had/has the same qualities as my abusers. But I can't see it, I only put bruises and physical pain to being hurt. I didn't know the non verbal signs of violence.

I became this person's personal maid, cook, and laborer and I was their target of verbal and other abuses, thinking it was my fault, how could I be so blind and stupid...

not realizing I picked an abuser that had the same traits as my mother. So in my life, and for my experience and context, since I was their supply source, they were allowed to treat me horribly because of "their symptoms and effects of this particular personality trait/disorder".

I am thankful to be able to heal my thinking finally, so I am thankful to them for being a catalyst for awareness. Their actions helped set myself free. I also did a ton of personal work on myself.

Now I have the energy to do what I want to do, move if I wish, and although I have been helping those in need in the only ways I knew how, I now know that there are resources, books, medication, therapy, helplines, self help groups, information for self love, different types of abuse, ect....

 

[Sideways]

to come here on a forum and have someone tell me, it's your opinion, not the truth. Who is anyone to tell me what my truth is?

I get what you’re saying, and I think that obviously you’re working through your own healing journey and that’s fantastic - keep going.

Be aware though, that on this forum, all of the tools we use in ordinary communication gets boiled down to the written word. That’s all people have here in order to try and understand each other.

So, people challenge the use of language here all the time. If we aren’t using words to mean the same thing, then we have no chance of communicating successfully here at all.

And, as they say: take what’s helpful, leave the rest.

 

[Ronin]

I just don't understand why it's so difficult for people to accept that some of us might have been abused by sociopaths/narcissists etc.

So many of us here routinely mention having dealt with diagnosed this or that abusers/else perps.

Where it isnt just a judgment call of the poster, but a medical fact about that person.
So I doubt the reluctance to accept mislabeling is because of some sort of closed mindedness.
Or not understanding the issue even remotely, or own denial.

It's just honestly sad that after years of learning to slowly trust my sense and what happened to me, to come here on a forum and have someone tell me, it's your opinion, not the truth.

Unless they were diagnosed? Yeah, its not the truth.
That is not a judgment call on your abuse.
That is just opposing false labeling of anyone, without evidence usually required for that labeling.
Which is actually fairly healthy thing to do, because not giving into a multitude of cognitive distortions, just because someone is an abuser.

One of the defining features of my abuse was indeed gaslighting

See, but you can talk about gaslighting, and its effects on you...
Without adding any other label to it.
It does not even /need/ other labels.
Gaslighting is a deep issue enough.

made it seem as though everyone saying they suffered from narcissistic abuse is doing so because it's trendy.

Last I checked, we were just working through what does who mean with saying, narcissistic... & how it is easily taken out of context... & how it doesnt really convey that much useful (for healing) information, beyond being a word.

Back to what @Sideways said - not invalidating abuse, or healing journeys. Just talking about labels.

And the kind of abuse I went through is also important to label the abuser.

So why not go for a closer to reality label?
If words matter so much, one would think you would go for as exact definitions as possible.
Not those that are just far from a lot of things, but easily related to.

 

[mylunareclipse]

Thanks. I am trying. Honestly, I have been more affected by this thread that I thought was possible. Like doubts in my head. Did it happen? Why can't anyone believe me again. Which means there's more hurt and pain, still buried that I thought I had moved through. I do think that I have a hard time labeling the abuse on my side as I still have no words for what happened to me. I really don't because it's all a bunch of mind games and I have no proof. Maybe the trigger of someone asking me where's your proof about this person being NPD. I have no proof about what happened to me, I don't have pieces of paper, physical bruises, I just have the emotional and mental scars. I think I mentioned it before, but it might be different for people who are not near their abuser anymore, and they are talking about a past experience, and the labeling might be perhaps more important to people that are currently in a relationship with the abuser.
Misunderstandings/disagreements can happen on this forum as they happen in real life and maybe more as people here also suffer from PTSD. And I do think that some of us are talking about apples and oranges.
However, why just not agree to disagree? There's no hard facts on this topic, just opinions. I gave my opinion, but yet my post was quoted and I was told it's not my truth.

 

[Mee]

Thanks. I am trying. Honestly, I have been more affected by this thread that I thought was possible. Like doubts in my head. Did it happen? Why can't anyone believe me again. Which means there's more hurt and pain, still buried that I thought I had moved through. I do think that I have a hard time labeling the abuse on my side as I still have no words for what happened to me. I really don't because it's all a bunch of mind games and I have no proof. Maybe the trigger of someone asking me where's your proof about this person being NPD. I have no proof about what happened to me, I don't have pieces of paper, physical bruises, I just have the emotional and mental scars. I think I mentioned it before, but it might be different for people who are not near their abuser anymore, and they are talking about a past experience, and the labeling might be perhaps more important to people that are currently in a relationship with the abuser.
Misunderstandings/disagreements can happen on this forum as they happen in real life and maybe more as people here also suffer from PTSD. And I do think that some of us are talking about apples and oranges.
However, why just not agree to disagree? There's no hard facts on this topic, just opinions. I gave my opinion, but yet my post was quoted and I was told it's not my truth.

I think part of the point of myptsd is to build our resilience. Not sure? But to get used to dealing with the difficult stuff around people who understand that we react to it.

But, here is the thing, i would say others have received potentially invalidating stuff which they have to work through in this too.

NOONE said it didn’t happen to you. Nobody. Please, please know that , because I think it will help to know that you are not being disbelieved about your abuse.

 

[mylunareclipse]

NOONE said it didn’t happen to you. Nobody. Please, please know that , because I think it will help to know that you are not being disbelieved about your abuse.

Thank you so much @Mee . I appreciate it.
For me I guess it means there's a lot more work to do in personal healing. I felt strong posting in here, but what at least I perceived as invalidation has really affected me.

 

[Mee]

Thank you so much @Mee . I appreciate it.
For me I guess it means there's a lot more work to do in personal healing. I felt strong posting in here, but what at least I perceived as invalidation has really affected me.

I find posting here very difficult. I left for a long time. I find aggressive posts scary. I find posts that feel ‘culturally limited in perspective’ invalidating. And that’s really tough.

But it doesn’t give me the right to insult others even if I really disagree with them. I often do. And I try very hard to put my posts down in a way that isn’t inflammatory.

 

[Teasel]

Appreciate this is difficult for you @wishforescape :hug:

I'm wondering if you ever have difficulty with something I have had for years which I describe in post no 3 in this thread - in finding it excruciatingly painful if it feels like others are trying to define your reality or don't see things your way?

Edit to add I'm in still living with my abusive ex

 

[mylunareclipse]

I find posting here very difficult. I left for a long time. I find aggressive posts scary. I find posts that feel ‘culturally limited in perspective’ invalidating. And that’s really tough.

But it doesn’t give me the right to insult others even if I really disagree with them. I often do. And I try very hard to put my posts down in a way that isn’t inflammatory.

what I find interesting is that I was minding my own business, posting my own things, and my own opinions, I try to not quote other people and "attack" them. This is an easier/more straight forwards way of posting my opinion.

Anyhow, I guess I have this idea that because people are in this forum they are automatically nice and kind and I get shocked of the response. I guess having PTSD does not go hand in hand with being nice either, aka nice for what I perceive as nice, ;)

I'm wondering if you ever have difficulty with something I have had for years which I describe in post no 3 in this thread - in finding it excruciatingly painful if it feels like others are trying to define your reality or don't see things your way?

certainly!! I am trying to learn to disagree with people and be ok with that.
One interesting thing I read one time was that: try to imagine changing yourself and how hard that is, and than think of how hard/impossible it must be to change someone else/someone else's opinion/argument etc.

 

[Teasel]

Because eventually I realised others dont get to define my reality actually you know?

 

[Mee]

what I find interesting is that I was minding my own business, posting my own things, and my own opinions, I try to not quote other people and "attack" them. This is an easier/more straight forwards way of posting my opinion.

Anyhow, I guess I have this idea that because people are in this forum they are automatically nice and kind and I get shocked of the response. I guess having PTSD does not go hand in hand with being nice either, aka nice for what I perceive as nice, ;)

I am not going to go back and point fingers at different people or see who said what but I felt dharmagirl was unfairly spoken to.

And no, ptsd absolutely does NOT make us nice. In fact one of the things I find interesting about ptsd is, and I do mean this in the adjective sense, the narcissism, involved for me is considerable. The way MY trauma overlays so much of the way I experience and interpret life now. The time needed for me. Therapy, time alone, more time alone. The way MY stuff impacts on family life. It’s a narcissistic ( not npd) trip. Even empathy with news stories and triggers therein are about how it makes ME feel. There is absolutely no selflessness in mental disorder of any sort I think