News SGB (Stellate Ganglion Block) On 60 Minutes

[PlumbT]

I'm new here but not new to PTSD. I searched the forums and didn't see that anyone posted about the 60 Minutes piece on SGB (Stellate Ganglion Block), the shot in the neck medicine for PTSD. What did you all think if you saw it or if you checked it out on YouTube? I was so skeptical. First of all they claim no side effects which is suspicious sounding. They claim 80% effectiveness which also sounds like something out of a marketing memo. And I'm guessing if it's that effective pharmaceutical companies would be rushing to advertise it on TV ASAP, no?

 

[Freida]

ya -- I don't believe in anything that sounds like a miracle treatment....

 

[Keming]

from a brief on nbi:

In uncontrolled, unblinded, retrospective case series, SGB for PTSD had high rates of rapid clinical improvement in PTSD symptoms (70% to 75%). However, findings from the first randomized trial (RCT) of SGB for PTSD were inconclusive, neither confirming nor refuting findings from case series. In the RCT, the range of mean percent PTSD improvement after one round of SGB was 5.4% to 14.7%, and was 12.1% to 21.2% after the second round, which was no better than an injection of saline. [emphasis added]

Seems like the 60 Minutes coverage is hype; optimistic, and possibly not without merit, but I wouldn't want to characterize this as a breakthrough.

But here's a really neat excerpt from the end of the brief:

Some proposed benefits of SGB for PTSD include (1) it may destigmatize treatment by offering a biologic approach to PTSD management,39 (2) it may offer a faster-acting treatment alternative with improvements reported within 30 minutes to days of the procedure,39 and (3) it increases compliance as it does not require continuous daily or weekly administration. [emphasis added]

Destigmatization of treatment could be essential for some sufferers, particularly sufferers operating in a toxic "suck it up" environment.

Also of note is the "increases compliance" benefit. Compliance is essential for psychiatrists: the client must participate, and feel validated by participating. But people have been burned by "compliance" before. I'd rather have "results" than "compliance," thanks.

 

[PlumbT]

Thank you for the post. That was very helpful and interesting info.

 

[RGS]

Having exhausted other options, my wife happened upon the SGB studies and thought it would be worthwhile. I had the procedure done in Annapolis MD approximately 1 1/2 weeks ago. The SGB is not a cure for PTSD (nor was it promoted as one), but it is remarkable in its efficacy for many of the symptoms. For 5 years I've been pretty jacked up (similar to the tightness felt after a severe car wreck), with the same symptoms everyone here is aware of- including the stigmatism, as it doesn't appear that you're not doing well and you tend to feel like no one can relate). This is a very quick and I thought painless shot. Immediately, the tension starts to subside- that feeling is amazing as most of us have forgotten that "normal" state of relaxation. The noise, chatter, and/or intrusive thoughts that make concentration/focus so elusive dissipates. I experienced the Horner's syndrome- droopy/bloodshot right eye, congestion in right nostril and hoarse voice for most of that day and I happened to have a pretty bad headache like caffeine withdrawal. I had the shot around 10 AM and was walking around Annapolis and going out to eat by 4:30 PM.
I have yet to experience any of the panic or anxiety attacks that would happen multiple times per week, the startle reflex has not happened since and to a man, everyone has mentioned that I seem more positive, or brighter whether they were aware I had the procedure or not. That is the good part- and there really hasn't been a downside, but I say it is not a cure because I still keep waiting for those symptoms to return (5 yrs of conditioning doesn't go away), I still feel slightly insecure as a result- it is still difficult to have confidence being out in public- but way easier than it had been. I had been using medical marijuana and have not felt I've needed it since. So, I'm guessing this would be a good first step once those PTSD symptoms take hold- to reboot your system, rather than waiting for talk therapy to work. I also think that talk therapy will have to continue but will likely be more effective than when constantly dissociating. Finally, just bc the chatter and hypervigilance stops doesn't mean you end up back where you were prior to trauma. Like most of the symptoms that can be difficult to put into words, I oddly feel a bit empty. For 5 yrs I've been trying to "handle" symptoms, but that was a never ending battle that left little room for anything else. That is not to say I didn't attend weddings, and funerals and go to he beach or out with friends in an attempt to engage others and not be reclusive- but dealing with those symptoms left little room for really being present during those times. Now I feel like I have to learn things again- get a personality back, as opposed to PTSD defining me Also the whole memory gap thing is still there.

A new study came out in JAMA on Nov 6, 2019 that shows the efficacy. I may need another shot in he future and would not hesitate. I would definately try the SGB if you feel PTSD is debilitating.

 

[EveHarrington]

Having exhausted other options, my wife happened upon the SGB studies and thought it would be worthwhile. I had the procedure done in Annapolis MD approximately 1 1/2 weeks ago. The SGB is not a cure for PTSD (nor was it promoted as one), but it is remarkable in its efficacy for many of the symptoms. For 5 years I've been pretty jacked up (similar to the tightness felt after a severe car wreck), with the same symptoms everyone here is aware of- including the stigmatism, as it doesn't appear that you're not doing well and you tend to feel like no one can relate). This is a very quick and I thought painless shot. Immediately, the tension starts to subside- that feeling is amazing as most of us have forgotten that "normal" state of relaxation. The noise, chatter, and/or intrusive thoughts that make concentration/focus so elusive dissipates. I experienced the Horner's syndrome- droopy/bloodshot right eye, congestion in right nostril and hoarse voice for most of that day and I happened to have a pretty bad headache like caffeine withdrawal. I had the shot around 10 AM and was walking around Annapolis and going out to eat by 4:30 PM.
I have yet to experience any of the panic or anxiety attacks that would happen multiple times per week, the startle reflex has not happened since and to a man, everyone has mentioned that I seem more positive, or brighter whether they were aware I had the procedure or not. That is the good part- and there really hasn't been a downside, but I say it is not a cure because I still keep waiting for those symptoms to return (5 yrs of conditioning doesn't go away), I still feel slightly insecure as a result- it is still difficult to have confidence being out in public- but way easier than it had been. I had been using medical marijuana and have not felt I've needed it since. So, I'm guessing this would be a good first step once those PTSD symptoms take hold- to reboot your system, rather than waiting for talk therapy to work. I also think that talk therapy will have to continue but will likely be more effective than when constantly dissociating. Finally, just bc the chatter and hypervigilance stops doesn't mean you end up back where you were prior to trauma. Like most of the symptoms that can be difficult to put into words, I oddly feel a bit empty. For 5 yrs I've been trying to "handle" symptoms, but that was a never ending battle that left little room for anything else. That is not to say I didn't attend weddings, and funerals and go to he beach or out with friends in an attempt to engage others and not be reclusive- but dealing with those symptoms left little room for really being present during those times. Now I feel like I have to learn things again- get a personality back, as opposed to PTSD defining me Also the whole memory gap thing is still there.

A new study came out in JAMA on Nov 6, 2019 that shows the efficacy. I may need another shot in he future and would not hesitate. I would definately try the SGB if you feel PTSD is debilitating.

What was the cost?

 

[Tinyflame]

I experienced the Horner's syndrome

Did they explain why, or how long it will last? I think that is related to a nerve in the Sympathetic nervous system- you can sometimes see it with neck, spine, strokes, MS, migraines, etc, if I'm not mistaken. Did you have to do a physical first?

PS, I'm glad you are finding some relief, and 'you' are still in there. I relate to that emptiness of thoughts, what an odd relief, though it's rare for me. But I find it still a lovely reprieve, especially for my body too. Not empty, more like clearing the space before you plant the garden. :)

 

[RGS]

What was the cost?

$1,200

Did they explain why, or how long it will last? I think that is related to a nerve in the Sympathetic nervous system- you can sometimes see it with neck, spine, strokes, MS, migraines, etc, if I'm not mistaken. Did you have to do a physical first?

PS, I'm glad you are finding some relief, and 'you' are still in there. I relate to that emptiness of thoughts, what an odd relief, though it's rare for me. But I find it still a lovely reprieve, especially for my body too. Not empty, more like clearing the space before you plant the garden. :)

the Horner Syndrome is how they know it was an effective shot- the needle is guided by ultrasound. If no response they’d give a second shot on the other side while you are there. It usually only lasts ~4 hrs. Mine lasted a bit longer. Really not a big deal.

 

[EveHarrington]

$1,200

Not cheap, but doable! Thank you for replying!

Can I ask what symptoms it helped?

I am very jumpy at times. I flinch and I’m hypersensitive. I tend to fly into fight mode quite often.

I read their questionnaire and I would answer “not at all” to a lot of questions. This is why I’m not sure if it would help me or if I’d be accepted.

 

[Marmukome]

Having exhausted other options, my wife happened upon the SGB studies and thought it would be worthwhile. I had the procedure done in Annapolis MD approximately 1 1/2 weeks ago. The SGB is not a cure for PTSD (nor was it promoted as one), but it is remarkable in its efficacy for many of the symptoms. For 5 years I've been pretty jacked up (similar to the tightness felt after a severe car wreck), with the same symptoms everyone here is aware of- including the stigmatism, as it doesn't appear that you're not doing well and you tend to feel like no one can relate). This is a very quick and I thought painless shot. Immediately, the tension starts to subside- that feeling is amazing as most of us have forgotten that "normal" state of relaxation. The noise, chatter, and/or intrusive thoughts that make concentration/focus so elusive dissipates. I experienced the Horner's syndrome- droopy/bloodshot right eye, congestion in right nostril and hoarse voice for most of that day and I happened to have a pretty bad headache like caffeine withdrawal. I had the shot around 10 AM and was walking around Annapolis and going out to eat by 4:30 PM.
I have yet to experience any of the panic or anxiety attacks that would happen multiple times per week, the startle reflex has not happened since and to a man, everyone has mentioned that I seem more positive, or brighter whether they were aware I had the procedure or not. That is the good part- and there really hasn't been a downside, but I say it is not a cure because I still keep waiting for those symptoms to return (5 yrs of conditioning doesn't go away), I still feel slightly insecure as a result- it is still difficult to have confidence being out in public- but way easier than it had been. I had been using medical marijuana and have not felt I've needed it since. So, I'm guessing this would be a good first step once those PTSD symptoms take hold- to reboot your system, rather than waiting for talk therapy to work. I also think that talk therapy will have to continue but will likely be more effective than when constantly dissociating. Finally, just bc the chatter and hypervigilance stops doesn't mean you end up back where you were prior to trauma. Like most of the symptoms that can be difficult to put into words, I oddly feel a bit empty. For 5 yrs I've been trying to "handle" symptoms, but that was a never ending battle that left little room for anything else. That is not to say I didn't attend weddings, and funerals and go to he beach or out with friends in an attempt to engage others and not be reclusive- but dealing with those symptoms left little room for really being present during those times. Now I feel like I have to learn things again- get a personality back, as opposed to PTSD defining me Also the whole memory gap thing is still there.

A new study came out in JAMA on Nov 6, 2019 that shows the efficacy. I may need another shot in he future and would not hesitate. I would definately try the SGB if you feel PTSD is debilitating.

Thank you so much for posting this! I also saw this on 60 Minutes. One of the doctors is only 40 miles from where I live and I am so eager to try this as nothing else has worked. I have severe somatic symptoms such as going into a panic if I drop an ice cube on the floor or run late for a doctor's appt. I know in my head that there is no danger but my body reacts in a way that you'd think I'd jumped in front of a moving car. It's crazy. I'm agoraphobic. It's hard to do anything. I also feel "trapped" everywhere I go and even in my own car and in my body. My body feels like it's wrapped in barbed wire most of the time. My rheumatologist told me that 50% of the people diagnosed with Fibromyalgia have a history of trauma. This treatment makes perfect sense to me. The Stellate Ganglion is a nerve bundle in your neck that is responsible for sending the signal to the brain that there is imminent danger. Your body REACTS immediately! Fight, flight or freeze. In PTSD, that "reaction" gets stuck even though the danger is gone. Everything feels like an emergency. By applying an anesthetic to that nerve bundle, it turns that switch off just enough to allow a sufferer to relax and have some breathing room to heal. I remember exactly how I felt before this happened and I want that person back. I lost everything during the time this was happening. Since 2013. Long story... I realize that I've had a milder form of PTSD for most of my adult life but this new version is unbearable. It's just been quietly tucked away somewhere in my psyche.

I do think this procedure could be a breakthrough. It makes sense to me.

I've done the screening with this doctor and the only thing holding me back is money. I'm reaching out to every charity I can find to try to get the $1200 to have this done. There is not much funding for this kind of treatment for non-veterans. If I can get it done and it works, I would like to work try to work with others to raise funds for ANYONE who has this diagnosis and wants to try it.

I'm happy for you RGS and I'm following some others who have also had success. It is amazing for some!