News Events around the George Floyd protests and riots, US and beyond

[Ronin]

& @ no one in particular, generic all: I think it might be helpful to remember in race discussions?

People of color usually *don't* have an issue with *white people*.

But with white *supremacy & privilege expressed in a harmful way culture.*

It's not about roots. Or even color of your skin. It's about attitudes.

Keep that in mind before you take offense to 'white people' notes of PoC & Black people.

As the terms *literally* don't mean what most average joe assumes they mean. Context matters.

 

[Mee]

I haven't yet, but it is on my list to watch. Thanks for the recommendation!

You are welcome.


It has challenged me- in a good way . I see lots of things in this discussion that would benefit from the perspective to consider.


When One thing arose I found my self resisting and THAT is my issue to work through . To sit with my Core belief and work it through before. It’s really easy to use back but I’m sitting with it from the perspective of how feel about rape apologists - those who don’t mean to but fail to tackle bias - ( again including me). If we used empathy from our own sense of injustice That caused our trauma - many of us feel some how systematically unheard or recognised- maybe That’s a breakthrough for those struggling with this? The intersection is - imagine having everything you are suffering/ and if you are in a white body - a potential and statistical layer of displacement. A further alienation. Place in the world ? Isn’t there something about that in our diagnosis? That’s kind of the bit I’m grabbing for

 

[Neverthesame]

Keep that in mind before you take offense to 'white people' notes of PoC & Black people.

I personally don't take offense to being called a "white people". I am one.
What I take exception to is the automatic assumptions about my character based on the amount of melanin in my skin. That because I'm white must mean I care less about people that look different than me. That my refusal to focus on one person over another because it's politically convenient this week.

Black lives do matter, absolutely. Every single human being has their own soul. Every human life is unique and precious, irregardless of what they look like. My compassion for all people doesn't take away from anyone. I don't care any less about black people because I acknowledge other people exist at the same time.

God this is frustrating. When did a it become racist to refuse to fixate on race?

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm sorry I haven't read all the pages of posts, more so the last 2 pages, so I can only say a teeny bit that is only MHO and relevant to the context where I live. I noticed @Freida 's because they have called to 'unfund' the police out here in response.

I can only think, for myself, I feel awful for GF no matter what the circumstances. I feel awful for all who have endured such horror and daily fear(s) and mistreatment. And I feel the same for all treated so unjustly, often constantly, based on any prejudice or difference. :cry:

i was cross-posting with @Neverthesame but thinking the same thing. (and, FWIW, the amount of melanin in skin is adaptatively necessary when one lives in areas hotter/ it's a degree of protection from skin cancer- never could figure out why there's 'any' deal about it? ). I was only going to add, I think or hope it's important that people have zero tolerance for the unjustice, but do not decide to turn that hate in to displacing it on to other people. (Hating the Police in general, for example, based on the actions of those who have done wrongly). For one thing, every generalization is a fallacy. But if/ where there are pockets of protection to be grossly unjust, it's the individuals who need to be addressed, and the system that supports them.

I heard a woman on tv, meaning very well, saying she is white and any time she can use her privilege to fight for others she will. But to have privilege because one is 'white', is wrong to begin with, IMHO.

I can only say, I do think it's the perfect storm of timing: many people have faced more reality with Covid in terms of recognizing their own mortality (what many of us here have already or already deal with); there's been a stripping away of work, financial security, often health care, social connection; there's been an abundance of news coverage re: Covid 19 contributing to anxiety, over-saturation, but also knowledge and exposure of inequalities; there have been pockets of great caring.

I think anything that contributes to insisting on the dignity of others, and decreased tolerance for the lack of it's opposite, that is very long overdue. Whether it's discrimination based on race/ ethnicity, gender, color, disability, age, sexual orientation, status, physical or mental illness or difference, addiction, or anything else/ any difference; or apathy for those in need, like the homeless and those without resources. I don't think that's 'Pollyanna'. I think that's a basic human requirement.

 

[Ronin]

What I take exception to is the automatic assumptions about my character based on the amount of melanin in my skin. That because I'm white must mean I care less about people that look different than me. That my refusal to focus on one person over another because it's politically convenient this week.

God this is frustrating. When did a it become racist to refuse to fixate on race?

See and this is precisely why these discussions are SO needed...

Because even to NOT focus on race / not "see" race, is an expression of white privilege.

People of color - and regardless of their skin tone, but especially visibly Black ones - do not *get* to 'not see race'. Every single minute of lives. In every interaction.

And it translates to virtual space too - a totally innocent common black expression in a conversation can mean a person objecting to it and acting hurt where none is intended in the better case - insulting, dehumanizing or threatening the black person who spoke in other ones.

(Not saying that's going on here - talking about mechanisms.)

People who aren't racial / ethnic minorities don't have to weight their every word & gesture *on that grounds*... and the sanctions, both social and legal, for infractions of social protocol commonly aren't in the lair of severe harm.

It's literally not about you, but about experience with a white *system* that hurts people daily... and that, without awareness and care for these issues, just continues to be perpetuated. Again and again and again.

 

[Tinyflame]

I had a friend years ago, who is black, who's father, who was very wealthy and established, hated white people (said, 'he could smell the stink of a white man over the phone', my friend told me. And/ but his mom went through hell on earth professionally with her job, wrongfully accused and fought it and won.) When we 1st met, he was pretty insulting/ rude, or his comment was. I said at the time, 'Look, I don't care if you're black, white pink or purple, that's really insulting/ rude'. I was afraid of the repercussion, but for some reason we hit it off great after that. But I always felt badly, because someone said, 'Are you dating?", and I said 'No!!', and I presume he thought it related to color, but I didn't elaborate. And it had zero to do with that, he was handsome and smart and great qualities- it had to do with the fact he loved semi-argumentative discussions with me that seemed to be fun for him but exhausted me because of my own deficiencies. :( Yet, when I had to describe him to friends (he was dropping off something for me), they said the next day, 'You didn't say he was black or bald'- never even occurred to me. Needless to say, he did say to me, just shooting the breeze, 'It sounds like being a woman is a lot like being black'. And I'll give him the credit for his awareness of society at large or human experience(s).

Similarly, I had to distinguish between 2 people, I loved them both but said, 'the black guy'. Only because I can't visualize, and frankly could think of no characteristics to explain anything else, height, glasses or what have you, as they both were the same, and worked together.

ETA I suppose, just as people have said with riots, ~'now you know how it feels to live with uncertainty and fear all the time', though I don't think harm helps, I do understand a bit of what they mean. Probably only from living with so much of the same myself for most of my life. At least I understand, as far as the subjective experience, even if I have never had the courage to speak up or feel able to push back, or anger to respond the same.

 

[Ronin]

Yeah I absolutely don't deny there *are* outright hateful people in minority groups, @Tinyflame :tup:

Wasn't as much speaking about them, racial supremacists of any sort can f*ck right off and it isn't just the white ones' problem.

That'd be a not so related tangent I *really* don't have the spoons for, years long / too many trauma histories. So the cliff notes version is some niggas are soo not my niggas, and needa change their ways imo.

 

[Tinyflame]

OMG @Ronin I agree, didn't mean to focus on that. FWIW, I don't know his circumstances, so I always figure were it me I too might have drawn the same conclusions.

I just know, like with my mom and sisters, especially one, (and likely my dad), when given the opportunities to work with people from all over the world, or travel to their country, they were treated beyond-belief great, made life long friends, and were offered sponsorship to come live there.

This situation has been horrific, and I'm glad people are trying to unite for -truly- the common good. I think the youth are great for that. They see with clearer vision than many. I like their vision for the world, their energy, and their courage to stand up for others and try to be voices for change.

 

[Mee]

& @ no one in particular, generic all: I think it might be helpful to remember in race discussions?

People of color usually *don't* have an issue with *white people*.

But with white *supremacy & privilege expressed in a harmful way culture.*

It's not about roots. Or even color of your skin. It's about attitudes.

Keep that in mind before you take offense to 'white people' notes of PoC & Black people.

As the terms *literally* don't mean what most average joe assumes they mean. Context matters.

Generally I think that’s true.

I also think it’s difficult that racism is now being used to mean ‘institutional racism’ in some areas not thd different types of racism that exist. I’m mixed culture and have experienced NON institutionalised racism more than once . Broken arm as a kid. Still doesn’t mean that as someone that Navigates the world in a white body ( that’s confusing in itself I’m mixed but I have full white privilege) i have that layer of obstruction in life removed. That I have felt Non institutionalised racism To me highlights how insidious culturally imbued and institutionalised racism is - it’s invisable to many. I have similat difficulty with sexism often And have only afyer much self questioning and in latter years of life and understanding been able to use the word feminist about my self - because of similar reaction I had, and others had about OWN reactions to word and distortion of meanings.

This stuff going on right now is why I am intersectional In my feminism.

Thanks for your insights ronin ?

Edit - also somehow I had missed points on shadism - which I know by a different name.


I think the colour blind thing is confusing because you are right - it is a privilege but i also think it can be dependent on the person saying it . I referred to stats a lot They are all we have often as a supporting measure - but as we all know we - each of us - is not a stat. I think assuming a person is a statistical expression ( which none of us wholly are - that’s a mathematical average) is devoid of empathy. The person I am talking to could have had a life close to or far from the expectation of phenotypical expression. I think that sometimes ‘being colour blind’ isn’t a way of saying - I don’t perceive your differences and struggles and joys on first meeting you but rather ‘ I am ready to see YOUR differences And in getting to know YOU.


That said I understand why it’s problematic - I think it’s also slightly difficult- the latter is my philosophy - and while I feel ok not using it I do think a point made about accuracy of terms and Our conclusionS about what is meant can be —- Difficult. Again - I say this from perspective of being a mixed rCe person who is white appearing- I cannot Visually claim part of my culture without Accusations of cultural appropriation, nor accusation of SJW. I definitely benefit from white privilege and do not seek to minimise this. People have made odd and hilarious guesses at my racial heritage all of which are wholly white European. I am also usually assumed to be English Now as an adult because I am a citizen,have British accent. Some of my friends who it’s not assumed the same but ARE british - wholly british - the difference is they are visably black or brown.

 

[Ronin]

I relate @Mee - I'm enough mixed I don't look what people assume my race, either - but I was literally raised in veery Black / mixed cultures & places with darn strong Asian influences / mentorship and then places, & been multilingual and very Hispanic since a very small kid, courtesy of one branch of family, which all plays role in how I present in small details / so not really accessing a couple of privileges and never have, back home or later in life...

So I get it gets complicated.

#mixedkidsproblems lol.

 

[Mee]

I relate @Mee - I'm enough mixed I don't look what people assume my race, either - but I was literally raised in veery Black / mixed cultures & places with darn strong Asian influences / mentorship and then places, & been multilingual and very Hispanic since a very small kid, courtesy of one branch of family, which all plays role in how I present in small details / so not really accessing a couple of privileges and never have, back home or later in life...

So I get it gets complicated.

#mixedkidsproblems lol.

Yes- this dimension too - I was raised in places ( Not Uk) I have no ‘genetic’ connection too but do now have cultural connection to. I really have a difficult struggle with appropriation here too - they are more me than some of my real heritage.


And if I say ‘what about ? ‘ in discussions I sound and look like a white woman complaining - I’m essentially the former - I’m not the latter- I just have a different experience.


There is some really interesting microcosm of all directions of frustration and expectation and individual ( not systemic) racism as well as systemic racism in hair care.


I cut my own hair. MainstreM hairdressers cannot handle my hair type. there are some ‘Afro carribean hairdressers’ ( uk term) near me but they don’t cut ‘white hair. My hair isn’t white. :/.

I cut my own:(.


Walking down any hair care isle of you are white with straight wavy or gentle curly hair the idea of the different hair type needs Of ‘curly’ hair all being lumped as One - Like all black or mixed or Celtic hair is the same and doesn’t need all the stuff straight hair now needs- dandruff care, anti aging or whatever.


It’s a trivial issue- which is why it’s SO damn good for highlighting the differences ( and the tensions between people).

 

[Ronin]

Snort. Yeah. Hear you on hair care, loud.

Feel like something quippy 'Glad I'm not for people with scissors near my neck anyway, so it's a non issue', but sympathies on the hardships given you *want* that pro hair care - and it isn't available.

And nah, not a white woman complaining, if you literally aren't white. Doesn't matter how things look so much, but what realities & experience is.