What’s the point in therapy?

[grit]

There two things that jumped at me:
Critical thinking of therapy... Which is very western based. I am interested in this.
The other is your feelings toward another human, punishing, anger, etc and yet forced Ty o see them, helplessness and yet you are paying for the painful relationship.
Two different things.
The first I am interested your critical thoughts. The second, I would Ask can you get along with this person? Why or why not?

 

[Friday]

Like why would I continue to pay and chase down a person to pay attention to me when I can get the same thing from a supposed friend

I would agree, very strongly with this. If the only thing you’re doing in/with therapy is paying someone to chat for an hour... there are hostess clubs and prostitutes who not only perform that service far better, but if far more comfortable environs. Hostess clubs span the spectrum of locales (from disco like club, to coffeehaus), and good prostitutes go anywhere, kayaking whitewater rapids to kangaroo exhibit. If I’m going to be paying someone a couple hundred an hour to kick it with me? I’m not going to do it in some stuffy cubical :wtf: nor with someone who can’t carry on an interesting an engaging conversation, but just sits there :bored: f*ck that noise. Seriously.

What’s the point?

Exactly.

If I’m paying a tutor to teach me something... they’d better actually be teaching me something. Not just bullshitting/chatting with me about my week, and sticking my homework in a box to be burned at some later date.

That DOES mean it’s on me to hire a tutor who actually has knowledge and experience in what I want to learn (sure, I can hire the dog walker to teach me to be a ninja, but that doesn’t mean they have the skill set to be able to do so); AND has the ability to teach me what they know. Compressing 8-12 years of higher education, and years to decades worth of first hand experience into an hour? Isn’t a skill everyone has. Think of all the teachers & professors you’ve had. If you’re lucky? You had at least one amaaaazing one, a few damn good ones, mostly okay so-so ones, and a couple of bad ones, and -if unlucky- at least one terrible f*cktard. Which is one of the lovely things about college/university... you can actually PICK your professors. You end up with a dud? Worst case scenario you spend 3 months with them, and best case you just transfer out after a few classes.

Ditto therapy... you have the ability to PICK your therapist.

Like professors? They specialize. You’re not going to learn a lot of astrophysics in a poetry of the 16th century class. Maybe some. But that’s just not the focus of the course. Even if you really like the poetry professor, if what you need&want is astrophysics? You need to head over to the sciences building, not the liberal arts building. But even in the right building? There are going to be amazing, so-so, & terrible astrophysics professors. You’re going to be spending a lot of time with whomever you choose to work with, so choose wisely.

So you know you need someone who specilizes in trauma & PTSD, because that’s what you want to learn... and moreover have a shortlist of things you love/like/don’t-care-about/dislike/hate about individuals & personalities. There’s reeeally no point in just switching from one poetry professor to another. Instead, find an amazing teacher, who specilizes in what you want to learn; trauma & PTSD...and... that you get on with. Minimum standards? Someone who is damn good. But ideally? Someone who is amazing.

 

[RubyBlue]

I would agree, very strongly with this. If the only thing you’re doing in/with therapy is paying someone to chat for an hour... there are hostess clubs and prostitutes who not only perform that service far better, but if far more comfortable environs. Hostess clubs span the spectrum of locales (from disco like club, to coffeehaus), and good prostitutes go anywhere, kayaking whitewater rapids to kangaroo exhibit. If I’m going to be paying someone a couple hundred an hour to kick it with me? I’m not going to do it in some stuffy cubical :wtf: nor with someone who can’t carry on an interesting an engaging conversation, but just sits there :bored: f*ck that noise. Seriously.
Exactly.

If I’m paying a tutor to teach me something... they’d better actually be teaching me something. Not just bullshitting/chatting with me about my week, and sticking my homework in a box to be burned at some later date.

That DOES mean it’s on me to hire a tutor who actually has knowledge and experience in what I want to learn (sure, I can hire the dog walker to teach me to be a ninja, but that doesn’t mean they have the skill set to be able to do so); AND has the ability to teach me what they know. Compressing 8-12 years of higher education, and years to decades worth of first hand experience into an hour? Isn’t a skill everyone has. Think of all the teachers & professors you’ve had. If you’re lucky? You had at least one amaaaazing one, a few damn good ones, mostly okay so-so ones, and a couple of bad ones, and -if unlucky- at least one terrible f*cktard. Which is one of the lovely things about college/university... you can actually PICK your professors. You end up with a dud? Worst case scenario you spend 3 months with them, and best case you just transfer out after a few classes.

Ditto therapy... you have the ability to PICK your therapist.

Like professors? They specialize. You’re not going to learn a lot of astrophysics in a poetry of the 16th century class. Maybe some. But that’s just not the focus of the course. Even if you really like the poetry professor, if what you need&want is astrophysics? You need to head over to the sciences building, not the liberal arts building. But even in the right building? There are going to be amazing, so-so, & terrible astrophysics professors. You’re going to be spending a lot of time with whomever you choose to work with, so choose wisely.

So you know you need someone who specilizes in trauma & PTSD, because that’s what you want to learn... and moreover have a shortlist of things you love/like/don’t-care-about/dislike/hate about individuals & personalities. There’s reeeally no point in just switching from one poetry professor to another. Instead, find an amazing teacher, who specilizes in what you want to learn; trauma & PTSD...and... that you get on with. Minimum standards? Someone who is damn good. But ideally? Someone who is amazing.

Thank you for this Friday, it’s what I needed to hear and remember.

Punish her... For *what*?

For forgetting about me. For not responding to my request for a new appt. Not just once but twice.

Maybe see what is triggering the intensity and work throug

There’s an entire list of massive abandonment issues that are at play and I know I’m assigning the brunt of it to her right now.


Update. She finally reached out today. Really ironic timing. I had my pdoc appt this morning where he was poking at how therapy was going. He seemed concerned, did some med changes, then kept poking some more. I have a feeling he said *something* to her. Because this afternoon, after more than two weeks she finally texted asking how I am. I responded that I’m not doing good at all and can we schedule something for either any morning this week or anytime Wednesday. Her response is that Wednesday is booked but she’ll let me know if anything opens up.

I’m over it. I can’t do this with her. Boundaries have been an issue, we text like friends. Until she disappears for a couple weeks and then doesn’t read or something when I’m literally asking for an appt. I know she’s not doing it maliciously which makes it worse. It’s like I’m not worthy enough for her to be bothered to communicate at all.

Anyway, I found a different T who has light years more experience focused on trauma than she does so giving him a try Wednesday. As for her, I really just want to ghost. I’ve been told at least a final session for closure would be good and they’re probably right. But what would that even look like? Me sitting there angry and brooding. Her sitting there feeling shit for losing a paying client and counting down the minutes until it’s over?

 

[joeylittle]

I have a pdoc appt in the morning and I really want to just ghost him too. I’m fighting it because I need medication because I’m f*cking mental without it. The only shitty part is he requires me to be in active therapy to get those freaking meds. So I’m trapped. And I have really no desire to talk to any new or current T because what the hell is the point when it would just be me whining about a bad childhood that everyone has?

Try asking your Pdoc for recommendations or referrals on a new therapist.

Sounds to me like you want to be actively engaged in therapy. That would mean some kind of protocol or process - EMDR, or PE, or trauma-focused CBT....something that progresses. You're not alone - many people will struggle if all their trauma therapy consists of is psychodynamic interpersonal techniques...they can seem to meander, and it gets frustrating.

This is excellent info to give your Pdoc, when you ask for ideas of other therapists you can see.

Re: this -

I gave her my work schedule to set an appt over two weeks ago and have heard nothing back. This is the second time this is happened. The last time I bit my pride and reminded her of me. She was all apologetic and fake crap. Now she’s doing it again and I absolutely refuse to sit there and beg for her attention.

You know, it's entirely possible that she thinks she's waiting on you.

It's not an issue of pride - though it's interesting that you see it that way - fundamentally, your T is part of your health care. It definitely sucks that you're having episode #2 of what seems to be bad communication. But over two weeks is definitely too long. Maybe she's dropping the ball - and certainly, that's good cause to move on and see someone else. But it's also possible she's just waiting to hear from you. Classic misunderstanding.

It would be interesting to be able to work out this piece with her, even if it's just in a few more sessions before you move on to someone else. You're experiencing her lack of communication as being deeply humiliating, which begs the question, why?

ETA: you answered this here -

There’s an entire list of massive abandonment issues that are at play and I know I’m assigning the brunt of it to her right now.

 

[joeylittle]

Anyway, I found a different T who has light years more experience focused on trauma than she does so giving him a try Wednesday.

This is great! Pretty much ignore my previous post.

I’ve been told at least a final session for closure would be good and they’re probably right. But what would that even look like? Me sitting there angry and brooding. Her sitting there feeling shit for losing a paying client and counting down the minutes until it’s over?

As far as a closure session - I can promise you, she won't feel like shit. It's in the job description to not have this kind of response. For you - if it would be useful to go and tell her what you've experienced over the last few months, you should. The idea would be to do whatever you need to do to feel like you've finished that chapter and are turning the page.

 

[RubyBlue]

Any tips for this first session with a new T? Cause the anxiety setting in and I don’t know if I can do this. I know it’s only really information gathering but I don’t know how to advocate for myself in this without feeling like I’m being dramatic or that I need more than I really do or that I’m some mental health version of hypochondriac or munchausen (sp?). Ugh I hate my brain I hate my brain I hate my brain.

 

[Movingforward10]

I'm sorry you are struggling @Annalyn78 . Maybe you are far more resilient than you realise? I mean, you've not only found a new therapist, but you have booked an appointment, and now you're planning on how you want that appointment to go. That sounds pretty impressive to me.

So maybe the first step is congratulating yourself on your self care? And believing in yourself?

You're not being dramatic or any of the things you feel in your post. You have experienced trauma. Don't let that annoying voice in your head tell you otherwise (I have that voice too. It's a pain in the a*se. ).

What is it you want from this T? An idea of what type of therapy? Boundaries? Telling them what has worked and not worked in your relationship with your previous T?

Will writing it out help?

 

[RubyBlue]

An idea of what type of therapy?

Something along the lines of PE or EMDR or something similar. I need to be able to process and work through trauma. I have the tools to manage day to day stuff but all the background noise is still there and too loud. If that makes sense. I’m honestly not sure what to ask for here.

Boundaries?

This is a huge thing I need. I have little to no boundaries of my own and I need a T who can teach me them as well as maintain their own. They have to be able to maintain solid hardcore boundaries otherwise it won’t be safe anymore. I can’t handle changing rules. That’s all childhood and marriage were. Constantly changing rules and people playing five different games around me and I can’t keep up. I need someone simple. Someone who knows their job and does it well and doesn’t bleed through. I need to know the rules and they have to stay consistent.

Telling them what has worked and not worked in your relationship with your previous T?

With this last T it became way more of a friendship than anything. Which made talking things over hard. Like I’m terrified to tell her anything negative she has done because I’m afraid of hurting her. I know she broke rules, maybe it wouldn’t be for others but definitely for me. She allowed texting anytime and not specifically about therapy. It would be like what did I do this weekend, can you send over a recommendation for a local ghost tour thing, memes so many memes. Which I loved, loved all of it. But it changed the relationship from strictly professional to a friendship and I struggle with that. I have no idea how to tell her I’ve found someone else. I’ve decided not to say anything until I get a better feel for the new T in case I change my mind. But I’m scared. She’s big on putting the past away and focusing solely on the present and that going over the past just makes it worse and so to just write it down if I feel I really need to and then put it away. But that makes me feel invalid almost. Like I should be able to just shove it out of my mind and not think of it again. Just think happy thoughts ?. And it’s not working.

Sorry this got really rambley and I probably didn’t answer the questions. It’s five am and I haven’t had much sleep.

 

[Movingforward10]

Not rambly at all. Sounds like those are the things you might want to say in your appointment?

I hope you get a bit of sleep.

 

[piratelady]

She’s big on putting the past away and focusing solely on the present and that going over the past just makes it worse and so to just write it down if I feel I really need to and then put it away.

this doesn’t seem right to me. If we were able to “just put it away” we wouldn’t have ptsd. Her excessive texting and this comment makes me think she isn’t qualified to help you. I can see how that would create a lot of frustration. I hope this new therapist works out!

When I was therapy hunting a long time ago, it took a few tries to find the right one for me. Even if this new one isn’t the right one, trust that you’ll find them. And if it turns out this new guy isn’t the right fit, maybe ask him for a recommendation.

 

[joeylittle]

What @Movingforward10 said - each paragraph you wrote in your post #20 is great info for a new therapist. Seriously - print and bring, or copy-paste into a notes app and read it.

I don’t know how to advocate for myself in this without feeling like I’m being dramatic

None of what you wrote in that post is dramatic. It's clear, and extremely helpful.

 

[MainerMikeBrown]

Annalyn78, I don't think it's fair for your psychiatrist to require you to be in therapy in order for him to prescribe you psychiatric medication(s) because, although many people like myself have found psychotherapy to be helpful, therapy, in my opinion, is not for everybody.