General How to tell my partner I suspect he has CPTSD

[Notgoodatnames]

After 15 years of being together, I will assume that he is invested and would be willing to take steps to preserve what you've built together all these years

I would hope so? It's taken a LONG time for him to open up, but recently we've been having some more meaningful conversations around how he is feeling. On the other hand, at the same time, over the last year or so there's been a lot of comments like "if I hadn't bought a house" or "if I didn't have my daughter, I would run away". Never, "if it wasn't for the house and my daughter and you". And then on the other other hand he goes above and beyond to help me in practical ways, like driving 100 miles after working a night shift to help me with a project. It's confusing. My mum left when I was a teenager. She did come back, but every time he says he wants to run (and maybe it's just venting) it terrifies me.

Have you spoken to him about how his mental health symptoms are affecting you and the relationship?
I've seen it tossed around here and there on this forum that when active, PTSD/CPTSD symptoms can increase a person's selfishness

A little bit. It makes him very uncomfortable. And then he makes more of an effort to show up for me, so I think he's maybe trying? But he won't (can't?) actually come out and say that this relationship is important to him and he wants to commit to it. He has done so in the past. About 5 years ago after a break, he came back, and at that time he said he would never leave me again, and to be fair he hasn't done so. Some of this might be more about how unsettled I'm feeling right now as there a lot of big changes looming in my life over the next 12 months, so maybe it's partly about the uncertainty that was maybe ok for me before, feeling less ok now because of all the other uncertainty.

Survivors have a hard time convincing *themselves* they have PTSD and go through cycles of complete denial. Someone else telling them? Even less likely to land. In general people are more likely to adopt beliefs that they see as arising from within. Definitely think it will take time to percolate, as you say.

Thank you for reminding me of / affirming this. Logically of course that's going to be true. I guess somewhere in the conversation in my head he went "oh yes, of course, thank you for that suggestion, let's find a therapist" which said out loud is of course absolutely ridiculous! I guess for now, I have to just be glad I've taken one first small step and give it lots of time.

 

[Avocado]

On the other hand, at the same time, over the last year or so there's been a lot of comments like "if I hadn't bought a house" or "if I didn't have my daughter, I would run away". Never, "if it wasn't for the house and my daughter and you"

What do you say to him when he says these kinds of things to you?

It makes him very uncomfortable.

Is his discomfort the worst case scenario in this discussion?

Sometimes discomfort, even arguments and disagreements are necessary for relationships to grow and prosper.

 

[Notgoodatnames]

What do you say to him when he says these kinds of things to you?

I freeze up and panic that I'm going to be abandoned and then think about all the things I could have said, or should have said, later when I'm alone. Thus proving that the "supporter" side of the relationship can be just as messed up :-/

What do you say to him when he says these kinds of things to you?


Is his discomfort the worst case scenario in this discussion?

Sometimes discomfort, even arguments and disagreements are necessary for relationships to grow and prosper.

Agreed, when put like that. When things get too much he tends to either freeze or shut down and walk away. And I am super conflict averse. If / when I have an argument it blazes up and then I want to get it resolved and get past it, but he will need to leave and takes days / weeks / months to calm down, leaving me in a lot of distress trying to process things. I think I need to get better at sitting with unresolved / ongoing issues, as the impulse to "fix" everything right away isn't necessarily practical or healthy, but maybe we also need to come up with a strategy for if he needs to walk away. He did ghost me the other week and I was able to tell him why it upset me, and he didn't really say anything but surprised me by coming back to it a few days later and apologising and explaining.

So as I write this I'm realizing that maybe we are both making progress, and me feeling the way I am right now is perhaps as much to do with my issues of sitting with uncomfortable thoughts as it is his in dealing with his issues. Maybe?

 

[Avocado]

I freeze up and panic that I'm going to be abandoned and then think about all the things I could have said, or should have said, later when I'm alone.

It sounds like taking the time to process the exchange or disagreement and taking time apart from one another to find the words behind your emotions is beneficial not just for your partner, but for you as well?

I am noticing that you are aware of your own pattern of freezing, panicking, and anxiety where there is conflict or statements that make you feel like you are 'too much' or 'too difficult'. Could it be possible that when you begin a difficult conversation with your partner, you begin to freeze and panic, not your partner? Or that some amount of the freeze/panic that you perceive belongs to you?

When things get too much he tends to either freeze or shut down and walk away. And I am super conflict averse.

Could it be possible that when you are having difficult exchanges with your partner, you see your partner as frozen or shut down because you are looking for an 'out', an escape from a conversation that you fear? By convincing yourself it's for your partner's own good to drop the conversation you initiated, could you be benefiting in the short-term from the anxiety or stress relief? Is the problem your partner's inability to handle discomfort, is it your own inability to handle discomfort, is it both? Is the problem that the two of you both have different methods of sorting out your emotions and working through the relationship problem- your partner requiring alone time to process, you wanting to settle the discomfort and disagreement more quickly and in the moment- and you haven't worked together to find out how to 'meet each other halfway'? These are some questions you might want to consider, look within yourself, and even ask your partner about the next time this kind of problem surfaces.

If this is too difficult or feels too intimidating, you may want to consider couples therapy. This way, you both can show up together, support one another, while sharing your sides of the story with an intermediate, the therapist, who will have an 'outsider', and perhaps more objective, perspective on the private disconnect going on between the two of you.

If / when I have an argument it blazes up and then I want to get it resolved and get past it, but he will need to leave and takes days / weeks / months to calm down, leaving me in a lot of distress trying to process things. I think I need to get better at sitting with unresolved / ongoing issues, as the impulse to "fix" everything right away isn't necessarily practical or healthy, but maybe we also need to come up with a strategy for if he needs to walk away. He did ghost me the other week and I was able to tell him why it upset me, and he didn't really say anything but surprised me by coming back to it a few days later and apologising and explaining.

The 'right away' part of the impulse to 'fix' is complicated isn't it? With delicate and complex interpersonal issues, the reality is that 'right away' isn't realistic the same way 'fixing' a clogged sink or replacing an air filter is a 'quick fix'. The key element here is time. In your example, you were able to discuss a struggle you had with your partner's ghosting behavior, then after a few days of processing and considering what you said, he apologized and was able to explain his perspective and share difficult emotions and discuss his behaviors with you.

Would it be helpful for you to view the time you spend apart not as 'abandonment', but rather giving the time and space necessary for your partner to process his emotions? In other words, it might be beneficial to you to re-frame the act of giving your partner the time and space he needs to process emotions as a nurturing gesture for him and the relationship, rather than seeing his 'ghosting' behavior as an offense, abandonment, or personal attack on you, the relationship, and your 'need or right' to have access to him?

 

[Notgoodatnames]

Or that some amount of the freeze/panic that you perceive belongs to you?

I'm beginning to realize that it's probably a valid point that I do get overwhelmed and need time to process. I'm finding the same thing happening with clients at work - that I often have a much better answer when I've had time to think about it

 

[Notgoodatnames]

Could it be possible that when you are having difficult exchanges with your partner, you see your partner as frozen or shut down because you are looking for an 'out', an escape from a conversation that you fear?

When I say that maybe I freeze up, it's like a seizing up inside: when I say he freezes - he literally turns into a statue. He stops moving, he closes his eyes and he stops speaking - like a possum. Sometimes eventually he says a few words, or sometimes he just asks "can I go now" and leaves. So it's definitely not in my head! But I do think it's been a good realization to understand how much anxiety I am generating for myself. It's one of those things where if it always happens to you, you think that that is just what happens to everyone in those situations, but maybe not everyone has as hard a time with conflict as I do?

If this is too difficult or feels too intimidating, you may want to consider couples therapy.

I think this could be great, but part of the last conversation we had was literally that "therapy is for white people." And then he got defensive and said that therapists just make people take pills and they get worse and end up committing suicide, and that he would solve his problems in his own way. And then he accused me of expecting everyone to conform to my viewpoint, which was unfair because I was only saying that therapy could be a helpful tool, not being dismissive of any other route. But he also refused to elaborate on what "his own way" was. It's another thing I'm beginning to notice is that if he feels uncomfortable with something he will push back and turn it around on me in order to shut the conversation down. Which is effective.

Would it be helpful for you to view the time you spend apart not as 'abandonment', but rather giving the time and space necessary for your partner to process his emotions?

I'm not actually super clingy, or someone who needs to talk every day, but to give some examples: he once blocked my number and refused to talk to me for almost a year because I went on a work trip (which I had invited him on) and he had decided (without bringing it up to me at all) that I was only going because I was seeing someone there, rather than that I had professional obligations. He cut off all contact for a month last year after an argument, and at this point we were working together, and left me fielding calls from an increasingly disgruntled client asking for answers to things I couldn't get because my partner wouldn't speak to me, which was horrendous. The other thing is that when he's been gone like that, when he comes back - because he has calmed himself down by that point - he doesn't want to talk about it because he sees it as "in the past", The year long thing we did eventually talk about, 5 odd years later. Last year's argument we have still only got as far as "that is drawback to mixing work and personal life" which still doesn't acknowledge how bad it was for me. And when we did talk about it, he thought that what was actually a month was only a week. Which was interesting because I think perhaps when he shuts down time moves differently. So I do get anxious because I'm never sure how bad it is going to get.

Honestly right now, I'm feeling like I need a little time out for myself to stop all of this being so charged and important. In some ways we've come a long way recently in terms of communication and that is good. The realisation that I find it hard to sit with discomfort is probably also useful. My impulse right now is either to push through and fix everything or to say "I'm done" but I think instead I'm going to book a trip for myself and look after me, and stay in the middle place. But the reason I'm able to think this is the result of years of therapy paying off!!!! So it's disheartening he doesn't believe in it. However, also that is only one conversation so again it might need time, and I need to be willing to give it time.

There is a difference between the healthy "I need a little space to process right now" and the unhealthy "I am going to use my absence like a weapon." Sometimes I would like to say "that's it, it's over" and storm off, in a "it's not really over, I just want to be upset and I want you to say how much you need me" kind of way, but I can't a) because he was abandoned, and I think it just plays into his feelings that he is not worth keeping, and b) because of a, he is more likely to just sit down and accept it, and then c) because I try very hard not to say things unless I'm sure I mean them, because what if he takes it as true?

 

[Avocado]

When I say that maybe I freeze up, it's like a seizing up inside: when I say he freezes - he literally turns into a statue. So it's definitely not in my head! But I do think it's been a good realization to understand how much anxiety I am generating for myself.

Okay. You both tend to freeze when you have difficult conversations. And difficult conversations and disagreements are a core element of building a long-term 'growth oriented' relationships.
With both of you freezing when you need to speak your minds, it sounds like there is a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding here. Without someone like a couples therapist to ease the freeze of you both and facilitate a productive disagreement where you both can be heard and understood, I doubt this relationship will make it long-term.

he once blocked my number and refused to talk to me for almost a year because I went on a work trip

I think instead I'm going to book a trip for myself and look after me, and stay in the middle place. However, also that is only one conversation so again it might need time, and I need to be willing to give it time.

Taking extended time away, including your partner's year long "breaks", is the norm for the both of you? In a committed, explicit romantic relationship? I am old, and even was called old fashioned when young. I really can't wrap my mind around this. This behavior is not the norm for me in context of romantic relationships. It seems unhealthy.

Sometimes I would like to say "that's it, it's over" and storm off, in a "it's not really over, I just want to be upset and I want you to say how much you need me" kind of way, but I can't a) because he was abandoned, and I think it just plays into his feelings that he is not worth keeping, and b) because of a, he is more likely to just sit down and accept it, and then c) because I try very hard not to say things unless I'm sure I mean them, because what if he takes it as true?

No, you are a human being with autonomy. You can choose to leave him, even when he has a history of abandonment. When you don't take action, you communicate to him that his behaviors that you struggle with, behaviors that harm your shared relationship, are acceptable and normal in the relationship. It might be confusing and frustrating from him find out that after 15 years, you want to flip the norms that were long ago established in your relationship, even if these changes are healthy. I'm sorry to suggest that you may need to consider if it is time to leave the dysfunction and relationship behind.

Take this with a grain of salt, I'm not a relationship expert. This is just what stands out to me in your writing.
Maybe someone else will see something different.

 

[Friday]

On the other hand, at the same time, over the last year or so there's been a lot of comments like "if I hadn't bought a house" or "if I didn't have my daughter, I would run away". Never, "if it wasn't for the house and my daughter and you".

So he, bone deep, TRUSTS you… you’re not a responsibility, like a child; nor an obligation, like a debt. Instead you’re someone he views as wholly capable? <low whistle> Well done, you. That kind of trust is hard earned in certain quarters.

Taking extended time away, including your partner's year long "breaks", is the norm for the both of you? In a committed, explicit romantic relationship? I am old, and even was called old fashioned when young. I really can't wrap my mind around this. This behavior is not the norm for me in context of romantic relationships. It seems unhealthy

I come from a military family… where that’s SUPER normal. (And, after the first tour, where problems shake out? SUPER healthy, in most families). Parents go to sea, or to the field, or get deployed; kids go to college, get married, have kids. We’re still a family. Distance doesn’t equal separation. You can be sitting next to someone & be completely alone, or 5,000 miles away constantly in each others thoughts. We spin apart, we come back. DEEPLY loved, and very close. On opposite sides of the planet, or right next to each other.

My own parents marriage was yawning typical for the nation’s largest employer (Excluding the US GOVT. as a whole, that is, as they cover apex 15% of the population; The DoD has an active duty force of over 2 million, nearly 3 million including adjunct/civilian staff; the next largest employers are Walmart & Amazon) but with nearly 1% of the population employed by the military? There are over 2 million families at present, and tens-hundreds of millions in the past, with the same “normal”; the spouse who stays home?(Navy Wife, in my mom’s case). Is SUPER independent, and loves/adores the time apart; but also hyper-passionate, and 30 or 40 years of honeymoons, as their lover returns to them? Suits them right down to the ground. They love the going away. They love the coming back. First tour, married, makes or breaks. Career spouses are either revelling in the utter independence & love bomb & utter independence & love bomb …or… thrashing & flailing & miserable & demanding their spouse leave the military. Pretty much no in between.

I could NOT be a spouse staying home. I couldn’t do what my mom did. I’d lose my ever loving mind. But? I’m EASILY the active duty person who leaves and returns, leaves and returns… as long as I trust the person I’m leaving & returning TO. But my personal preference is to both live AND work together. To me, that hangs the moon.

Shrug. Different personalities need different things. I cannot be left behind. I can leave. I prefer to leave WITH.

“Healthy” is not a cookie-cutter 9-5, home every morning & night, & weekend …peasant lifestyle…gig. That’s healthy for some, painfully toxic for others.

Healthy, IMO/IME are both/all people’s needs and most wants being met, in ways that allow them to grow into even better versions of themselves as individuals, as well as the relationship between them. <<< There are ALWAYS f*ckups & hard times. Either an individual is struggling, or the relationship is… happens. Getting THROUGH those hard times to better tomorrows? (Not worse tomorrows). Is part of the healthy thing.

Whilst the majority of the population may do life in a similar fashion? There are always outliers. Artists, military, explorers, roughnecks & wildcatters, firefighters, travellers, aid workers, überwealthy, etc.. Each with unique sub-cultures where “healthy” & “unhealthy” is still the same (what helps, what hurts), but is achieved in WILDLY different ways.

***

@Avocado

“Old fashioned”? Where someone would leave for a week, at least once a month, to collect the mail? Once or thrice a year for a month, to collect foodstuffs? Up to a few years for various wars? Would leave for 5 years, with the East India Tea Co.? 10 years, with the British navy/army? Or be living and working 24/7/365 for decades with the exact same people, never venturing more than a few miles from where you were born? Sold into slavery & shipped half a world away? What’s “old fashioned” mean to you? ((I grew up on 5 continents, and have a degree in anthropology, so these kinds of statements tend to both confuse & delight. What’s “old fashioned” mean… to you? 1950’s Americana? 1000ad to 1800s EU? Edo? Pirate Queen of the Balkans? Precolumbian Latin American? Age of exploration? What sort of recollection of the past feels “right”?))

 

[Avocado]

I come from a military family… where that’s SUPER normal. (And, after the first tour, where problems shake out? SUPER healthy, in most families). Parents go to sea, or to the field, or get deployed; kids go to college, get married, have kids. We’re still a family. Distance doesn’t equal separation. You can be sitting next to someone & be completely alone, or 5,000 miles away constantly in each others thoughts. We spin apart, we come back. DEEPLY loved, and very close.

Shrug. Different personalities need different things. I cannot be left behind. I can leave. I prefer to leave WITH.

“Healthy” is not a cookie-cutter 9-5, home every morning & night, & weekend …peasant lifestyle…gig. That’s healthy for some, painfully toxic for others.

Whilst the majority of the population may do life in a similar fashion? There are always outliers. Artists, military, explorers, roughnecks & wildcatters, firefighters, travellers, aid workers, überwealthy, etc.. Each with unique sub-cultures where “healthy” & “unhealthy” is still the same (what helps, what hurts), but is achieved in WILDLY different ways.

Thank you, context like this is helpful for understanding the situation and for couples trying to figure out how to work towards a solution.
My response must be assuming the "cookie-cutter" variety, which may not be the case in this situation!

“Old fashioned”? Where someone would leave for a week, at least once a month, to collect the mail? Once or thrice a year for a month, to collect foodstuffs? Up to a few years for various wars? Would leave for 5 years, with the East India Tea Co.? 10 years, with the British navy/army? Or be living and working 24/7/365 for decades with the exact same people, never venturing more than a few miles from where you were born? Sold into slavery & shipped half a world away? What’s “old fashioned” mean to you? ((I grew up on 5 continents, and have a degree in anthropology, so these kinds of statements tend to both confuse & delight. What’s “old fashioned” mean… to you? 1950’s Americana? 1000ad to 1800s EU? Edo? Pirate Queen of the Balkans? Precolumbian Latin American? Age of exploration? What sort of recollection of the past feels “right”?))

Following the last half-century or so of western society's dating and relationship norms.
See my assumption of 'cookie-cutter" advice. : )

 

[Notgoodatnames]

It seems unhealthy

Of course it is unhealthy! And no the year long was once, and it was brutal and the more trust has built since then. Hence the... I think he has some sort of undiagnosed trauma issues, and undiagnosed and / or undealt with leads to some unhealthy dynamics. If things were 100% healthy I wouldn't be on a PTSD forum looking for answers.

You can choose to leave him

Yes, I can, and if I'm 100% sure it's the right choice I will. What I was saying is that sometimes I want to threaten to leave him and storm off, which is a (I think) natural human impulse, but in reality it's a red-line for me to threaten something that I am not prepared to follow through with. If I leave, it will be a considered decision, and I'm not there yet.

 

[Notgoodatnames]

So he, bone deep, TRUSTS you… you’re not a responsibility, like a child; nor an obligation, like a debt. Instead you’re someone he views as wholly capable? <low whistle> Well done, you. That kind of trust is hard earned in certain quarters.

Thank you for this, it made me smile.

Healthy, IMO/IME are both/all people’s needs and most wants being met, in ways that allow them to grow into even better versions of themselves as individuals, as well as the relationship between them. <<< There are ALWAYS f*ckups & hard times. Either an individual is struggling, or the relationship is… happens. Getting THROUGH those hard times to better tomorrows? (Not worse tomorrows). Is part of the healthy thing.

He makes me a better person in so many ways. He's inspired me and empowered me and supported me, and I agree that there is always a point in any relationship where you kind of hit a wall, however much you love that person, and there are some things that need to be worked out. I think it is a big step that I was able to say to him that I think his reactions / the things he is dealing with stem from trauma and he didn't outright dismiss the suggestion. It's easy for me to get fixated once I start tackling something and want to sort it all out at once, which you can't always do when dealing with another person.
This weekend is the first time I've had off in about as long as I can remember, and I've had time to be alone and it's been a good reset. And I booked a 3 day trip away in October which I'm now really looking forward to! If he comes too that will be fun, but also feeling like I'm not held hostage to his availability feels healthy to me.
I like that you say "needs and most wants".

 

[Friday]

Following the last half-century or so of western society's dating and relationship norms.

Out of curiosity/understanding …So the mid 1970s-present? Free love & drugs & but pregnancy = marriage 70, terrified of plague/STDs but single parents are mostly acceptable 80, polyamory & serial monogamy & friends with benefits 90, hooking up & swiping 00, f*ck your labels 10, tea-consent & video-consent 15? Couldn’t really tell you what current norms are.