Egocentric Thinking

[anthony]

The Problem of Egocentric Thinking

Egocentric thinking results from the unfortunate fact that humans do not naturally consider the rights and needs of others.

They do not naturally appreciate the point of view of others, nor the limitations in their own point of view. They become explicitly aware of their egocentric thinking only if trained to do so. They do not naturally recognize their egocentric assumptions.

The egocentric way they use information, the egocentric way they interpret data, the source of their egocentric concepts and ideas. The implications of their egocentric thought.

They do not naturally recognize their self-serving perspective.

As humans they live with the unrealistic but confident sense that they have fundamentally figured out the way things actually are, and that they have done this objectively.

They naturally believe in their intuitive perceptions - however inaccurate.

Instead of using intellectual standards in thinking, they often use self-centered psychological (rather than intellectual) standards to determine what to believe and what to reject.

Here are the most commonly used psychological standards in human thinking.

"IT'S TRUE BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT." Innate egocentrism: I assume that what I believe is true even though I have never questioned the basis for many of my beliefs.

"IT'S TRUE BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IT." Innate sociocentrism: I assume that the dominant beliefs within the groups to which I belong are true even though I have never questioned the basis for many of these beliefs.

"IT'S TRUE BECAUSE I WANT TO BELIEVE IT." Innate wish fulfillment: I believe in, for example, accounts of behavior that put me (or the groups to which I belong) in a positive rather than a negative light even though I have not seriously considered the evidence for the more negative account. I believe what "feels good," what supports my other beliefs, what does not require me to change my thinking in any significant way, what does not require me to admit I have been wrong.

"IT'S TRUE BECAUSE I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IT." Innate self-validation: I have a strong desire to maintain beliefs that I have long held; even though I have not seriously considered the extent to which those beliefs are justified, given the evidence.

"IT'S TRUE BECAUSE IT IS IN MY SELFISH INTEREST TO BELIEVE IT." Innate selfishness: I hold fast to beliefs that justify my getting more power, money, or personal advantage even though these beliefs are not grounded in sound reasoning or evidence.

Since humans are naturally prone to assess thinking in keeping with the above criteria, it is not surprising that we, as a species, have not developed a significant interest in establishing and teaching legitimate intellectual standards. It is not surprising that our thinking is often flawed.

Source: Foundation for Critical Thinking www.criticalthinking.org

 

[Brontie]

Anthony,

I hope I’m correct in saying that you didn’t write this one. I have to say that I disagree with this one. It’s cold and unfeeling. And there is a lot more to dealing with the human condition than critical thinking allows. Not everything can be dealt with through reason and logic. And it strikes me as particularly unfair to refer to people who have learned to trust their own instincts and intuition as egotistical.

 

[The Albatross]

On the contrary, words on a page aren't cold and unfeeling. I assign these when I filter them through my core beliefs and perception. I found for myself that the crux of the problems was in "moderating" the intuitive tool and over active instincts... the biggest one's fear and rage. Learning the tools for rational and logical thinking has helped me a lot in the past 2 years. I don't see intuition and logic as oppositional, I see them as an interplay... and use them for the rise and fall of my emotional states interchangably. When I was able to bust the concept that my perceptions and intuitions are not infallable and began to explore rational thinking techniques, I got a better handle on low frustration tolerance, fear and rage.

 

[Abstract]

On a different note I think DBT's "the wise mind" concept is a much healthier stand than this

 

[The Albatross]

DBT's "the wise mind" concept

Abstract, I am not familiar with this concept, any info or link would be appreciated.

 

[freakofnurture]

I approve of the article, although it only begins to scratch the surface of the problem.
The most understandable way I saw it expressed was along the lines of "Everybody knows that you can't be good at playing the piano without having learned and practiced it, but everybody assumes that they were born being great at thinking."
The human thinking, as it naturally occurs, relies on an incredible number of heuristics - shortcuts of thinking - that work well enough to get you through an average day. But if you want to be a responsible, autonomous and constructive member of the global society, and if you care whether or not your beliefs are actually true, you have to rise above thinking 'as it naturally occurs'. You have to learn about the pitfalls of human cognition, about illusions, biases, blind spots etc., and practice to critically reflect your own thought processes as well as to stand back from your emotional reactions for evaluation.

 

[Abstract]

Abstract, I am not familiar with this concept, any info or link would be appreciated.

Hi Albatros,

Many have a problem taking into consideration their inner experience and feelings. They disconnect from the important information that emotions and inner experiences bring and rely on outer ques to guide their lives. Others only take into account their feelings judgments and thoughts and discount all others or those of other groups. I realise the article comments on more than that but that is part of it.

Wise mind is a combination of "reasonable mind" which is the objective, rational perspective of something and the "emotion" mind which is the information we get from our inner emotions.

I am still confused about the rules controlling links on here but am assuming Wiki would be a safe bet and this gives the basics.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Dialec...e_Mind/Experiencing_Integration_and_Intuition
It may not seem that relevant in some ways to the article above but one would just take the concept and apply it in a broader sense.

I hope this is of some help!

 

[anthony]

DBT is a form of CBT, it is only enhanced for those with Borderline Personality Disorder. So I disagree that DBT's theory has any relevance over the above statements, as DBT is specific to BPD, which is a minority in relation to trauma. The above targets accurately the majority which DO NOT have BPD.

One should not confuse or cross focus therapy types aimed at specific illnesses.

 

[Abstract]

Hi Anthony,
DBT or aspects of DBT such as mindfulness are being used quite widely for many other reasons than BPD even though thats where it originated. I certainly am not borderline. It may vary from country to country of course so that possibly explains the difference in where we are both coming from. I understand how some who have experienced trauma may be caught up entirely in their own egocentric view of the world and others, and I am guessing that was your point as well as your helpful habbit of giving us a lot of general information.
I guess it is possibly some of us who grew up with trauma that end up not having a sense of self to be egocentric about.
The rest of what I wrote is just my personal opinion and relates to my personal experience.

 

[anthony]

Minfulness is just a new name for another aspect already encompassed within CBT. A quote from your link which summates this book being referenced, in relation to DBT for those with BPD:

The specific DBT skills for developing Wise Mind are interpersonal effectiveness skills, emotion regulation skills, distress tolerance skills, and core mindfulness skills.

These are essential skills for someone with BPD, because they lack many of them. Me personally, I tend to favour freakofnatures response as specifically accurate:

I approve of the article, although it only begins to scratch the surface of the problem...

...You have to learn about the pitfalls of human cognition, about illusions, biases, blind spots etc., and practice to critically reflect your own thought processes as well as to stand back from your emotional reactions for evaluation.

People need to stop looking at all the fancy names these marketers are providing to boggle your mind with, and just stick with the basic principles. Minfulness is now being marketed for meditation, crossed completely away from CBT based skillset to meditation. Mindfulness is as a dangerous name now as is NLP. People trying to take things outside of their intended purpose and use uniquely as a solution. It just doesn't work that way!

My recommendation, would be that people steer clear of mindfulness and focus on the basics... as this is only another distraction. Just my two cents.

 

[Abstract]

Thanks Anthony,
My two cents back. ;) I have not done it through any alternative or NLP type practitioner and have only done it through serious therapy and therapists. I have not done mindfulness meditation and have merely used it to help with dissociation and emotion regulation.
It certainly believe CBT is the way that works when it comes to addressing specific trauma (for me anyway) but midfulness based CBT and ACT/DBT helped me enorrmously when it came to interpersonal and emotion tolerance based issues relating to trauma. It helped so much for me to find a place between others thoughts and rights and those of my own.
Pure CBT was initially triggering for me in this regard although I am open to the idea that the right therapist may have been able to work around it - the ones I had did not.

I used to be extremly triggered by feeling I was "wrong" to have whatever unhealthy thought or feeling and for me the dialectical approach so helped me move ahead without just shutting down as I had done. I am aware I am sounding a bit nuts now :( but I guess there you go - it was not a healthy way to be.
I can see why they are essential skills for someone with boderline personality disorder or anyone with aspects of interpersonal sensitivity.

I always had the ability to critically practice to reflect on my own thought processes and always stood back from my own emotional reactions and evaluated them. What I did not and could not do was know what I thought or felt or tap into or consider these.
Now, with awareness, I can do both. Hence being so opinionated here!:D
In the past I would not have been able to do so.

 

[freakofnurture]

People need to stop looking at all the fancy names these marketers are providing to boggle your mind with, and just stick with the basic principles.

Wow, I knew there's some woo psychotherapy out there but I didn't know there's so much going on with tech speak.
What would a list of 'safe terms' consist of? That is, like the terms you use to outline the 'wise mind' concept. I'd find that helpful.


On, and an addendum to my first reply: If anybody wants to google beyond the stuff I'm naming, 'cognitive psychology' and 'skepticism' are good search terms to start with, and the wiki has quite a bit of okay articles about these two and especially cognitive biases.