Preverbal Trauma - Infancy

[Clover]

Has anyone else here experienced preverbal trauma? Does anyone suspect they have? I am struggling with this aspect of my healing the most, I think. Probably, this is because I can't prove it's true as well as the fact that I have no memories of it in my mind, only my body.

Here is what I do know:

I have gleaned bits and pieces of some things that went on before I was even born which I think set the stage for what was to come when I was an infant. My parents were not getting along well and had been married for about 7 years when my mom got pregnant with me. My father was not ultimately very supportive to her during her pregnancy and I think they had a lot of fights. Then, while still pregnant with me, she went out and had an affair with some man she knew from her job.

When I was born, I was 23 days late. There was some trauma while I was being born - I was coming out feet first and the cord was wrapped around my neck. I was essentially being hanged in my mother's womb. The doctor had to reach in, unwrap the cord and then turn me around head-first.

When I was about 10 months old, she was already pregnant again although I am a little hazy about some of those details ( was it her child with my father or this other man?) The fetus was going through its own trauma and so my mother had to have a therapeutic abortion to save her own life. Right after her surgery my father brought me in to see her and I guess she looked different to me or maybe her emotional state was frightening to me so I would not go to her. This apparently triggered my mother and she became extremely angry at me.

I found all this out about 10 years ago when she had Cancer for the second time and she thought she was going to die. (She did not die). She told me that since that day she has been extremely angry with me, which has been obvious to me my whole life.

I know that she must have treated me differently after that day in the hospital, by her own admission, but I cannot remember what that entailed. I can only remember stuff from about 2 or 3 years on... My father was not around much when I was young since he worked away from home all week so he's not much help.

I guess my question is, based only on what you've read here, do you believe that this would be enough to traumatize an infant? Could this be the beginning of my PTSD or was it brought on by later events? Like I said, there may be more but I know my mother will never admit to anything else that might have gone on. My former therapist, based on some very deep work we were doing together, believes that there is something from that point in my life that traumatized me.

Also, does anyone else have, or suspect they have, issues from infancy (or feelings about infancy) which you believe might account for some of what you're going through now?

 

[anthony]

Read [DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/c/wiki/posttraumatic-memory/[/DLMURL] which is unedited at present... but accurate to answer what you are asking, being about memory and childhood, and your delving towards false memories as well.

Basically, if you can't remember it, then its not traumatizing you. You are traumatizing you by trying to remember something not there, or trying to even falsify memories at any extent to make sense of this new information. Leave it at that, new information... you will understand after reading the above.

 

[Clover]

Hm. I'm a little confused by what you're saying here. I am referring to a traumatic event which I know occurred. I did not make it up, I was told by my parents that it happened. Of course, I cannot remember being born, but that does not mean that my birth it did not have a negative affect on me.

The parts that I cannot prove are interlaced with the parts which I can prove. My mother did tell me that she was very angry at me for 25 years. This was not new information when I received it. I had already been in therapy because of this issue, although she had never admitted it to me prior to that day. I think she did because she felt very guilty about it and she thought she was going to die. However, when she told me about her feelings I got the very distinct sense that she was holding back some information and that's what I was talking about in the above post. So in that you may be absolutely correct. Perhaps there is no more information (though I suspect there is) to be had.

I guess the question that I am asking here (and sorry if I was not clear about it) is whether or not almost being strangled to death as I was being born might have been the seed of my PTSD or if it was the years of abuse which followed?

What are your views on repression? I believe that many of us push memories away as protection from having to re-live them. In my case, I did not push anything away, I was just too young to remember it.

 

[TLight]

Wow, I so have to say something, Anthony. I think what you stated is totally absurd.

There are instances where people have dissociated while awake during surgery due to the trauma of what was occurring. They remember absolutely nothing about the incident, yet when triggered by things, they experience extreme distress.

I think your statement is really sweeping a very wide brushstroke, especially for those of us who don't remember the horror, but our bodies do! I have only body memories, extreme nightmares, and terrible body tremors and re-eactments of sorts ....but NO distinct memories. In fact, years of therapy are undergone to reveal memories when our conscious minds are ready for it!

So really, what you wrote seems to be saying that I'm just purposely trying to traumatize myself and nothing traumatizing really happened?
Clarify for me if you wish.
ps. I read the article.......but I've lived the experience, and yes, pre-verbal trauma has a huge impact on a person.

 

[TLight]

ps. I am trained as a scientist also and there are many studies supporting that traumatic memories are usually not thought to be able to be implanted by therapists that that train of thought has been extremely revictimizing of survivors.

Why on Earth would someone have all these symptoms and distress and someone can say that simply because they don't remember, nothing happened? OH............news to me. Guess I'll just get over it.

Anthony, in my honest opinion you should keep your theorizing and paper writing to a peer reviewed journal and not be the 'be all end all' knowledgeable one on PTSD in this venue. Really dangerous if you ask me.
ps. go ahead and ban me.

 

[Clover]

Thanks for your response TLight! Yes, I absolutely agree with you -our bodies carry many memories that our minds cannot seem to face.

I have memories from many acts of abuse but I also have a deep-rooted sense that my preverbal trauma may well be the seedling of all the other traumas. For instance, before I ever found out about the way I was born, I had begun experiencing extreme issues with my neck. I was in so much pain that I could barely move at all for a week and needed help sitting up or lying down.

This occurred not too long after I was re-traumatized with several terrible events. I believe that this was the first body issue that, in retrospect, I can potentially connect with the trauma of my birth. Perhaps birth is somewhat traumatic for all of us, but almost hanging oneself (or being hung, who's to say) must affect me in some way. I can say that the memories that I cannot remember so well tend to affect my body more since I believe that I may have built up a tolerance (or blocks) to the feelings which have sharp clear memories. Also, I have been dealing with the memories I can clearly remember for far longer.

 

[allitherapy]

The fetal/infant brain is very different than the adult brain. It lacks the neural circuits and many structures found in the adult brain. For example, the human baby can only see about 8 inches away from them and it takes about 2-4 months for the baby to fully distinguish color. Babies also cannot form memories unless there is repeat exposure to the stimulus because the memory centers of the brain are so underdeveloped. An adult may remember something that was only experienced one time; a baby can't do this. A baby learns by repeat exposures in a process called long term potentiation. Simply put, this is how the brain strengthens its synpases. This happens in adults as well. It's kind of the "if you don't use it, you lose it" saying. The more you do something, the better your brain gets at knowing how to do it. My point is, you don't remember the cord being wrapped around your neck; it isn't possible. You also wouldn't have felt like you were hanging. In amniotic fluid, the baby is floating; there would be no hanging sensation. Not possible. Your parents telling you the story may make you think you can remember the experience, but the chances of your brain actually remembering it are very slim, unless you have some kind of superhuman brain.

Also, having the umbillical cord wrapped around your neck wouldn't be strangling you to death. You're not actually breathing in the womb. The problem with the cord wrapping around the neck is that it makes the cord more prone to rupturing, which would put mother and baby at risk; not that you're actually being strangled to death. You could wrap the cord around your neck so tightly that it would kill an adult by lack of oxygen, but it wouldn't matter for the fetus, as the fetus doesn't breathe. Having the cord wrap around the neck is extremely common and not all babies who experienced this develop PTSD. Your PTSD is more likely a result of the childhood trauma you experienced. Not to mention that a PTSD diagnosis requires a preceding event that is beyond the scope of normal. Having the cord wrapped around your neck would not qualify.

Anthony is right. You can't develop PTSD from something that your mind is humanly incapable of remembering. There is a huge difference between body memories associated with repressed memories or things we choose not to remember and what you are experiencing. Is it possible that you had some other trauma to your neck that you haven't been able to remember yet? Also, did your mother have an epidural or any kind of sedation? If so, there is no way you would have felt anything; these things prevent the baby from feeling pain as well.

Does pre-verbal trauma exist? Absolutely. But not from experiences that the brain is physically incapable of knowing happened. Something at 10 months, yes. At birth, no.

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but it's most likely accurate. Regardless, I wish you well in your path to healing.

There are instances where people have dissociated while awake during surgery due to the trauma of what was occurring. They remember absolutely nothing about the incident, yet when triggered by things, they experience extreme distress.

Yes, but these are adults. The adult brain can form these memories; the infant brain cannot. They are completely different situations.

 

[anthony]

I guess the question that I am asking here (and sorry if I was not clear about it) is whether or not almost being strangled to death as I was being born might have been the seed of my PTSD or if it was the years of abuse which followed?

What are your views on repression? I believe that many of us push memories away as protection from having to re-live them. In my case, I did not push anything away, I was just too young to remember it.

Allitherapy nailed it smack bang on the head.

You are trying to mix adult knowledge that you now have, being verified from your mother, with an event that you physically cannot remember, and are even trying to apply now repressed memories too. It does not work that way, hence why that linked wiki page states these very things about how the brain develops, and memory below approximately 4 - 5 years of age is not retained well, if at all. Birth, absolutely not, and even out to 6 - 12 months of age, nothing in memory.

You cannot traumatise your brain with something you do not actually a) remember b) even identify if you don't know what it is, ie. learnt, being when a baby. You can absolutely traumatise your brain with knowledge you learn now, adulthood, of a past event. That is the cross-over I think you are looking towards.

Anthony, in my honest opinion you should keep your theorizing and paper writing to a peer reviewed journal and not be the 'be all end all' knowledgeable one on PTSD in this venue.

I think you're having a bad day Tlight, because this knowledge is not mine, it is from the experts in PTSD, it is from the neuroscientists. So maybe you should rethink your statements about attacking me with your opinion vs. what is now becoming current and actual fact with neuroscience in relation to trauma and PTSD specifically.

With the developments in neuroscience in the last 5 years, we are now relearning many facets, that all prior information is not as correct as we thought, and what is actually going on within the brain is far different to original theories that maybe you refer or know from your science experience.

I don't create information on PTSD, I learn it from the experts and apply it here. Nothing more, nothing less... never has been.

 

[anthony]

there are many studies supporting that traumatic memories are usually not thought to be able to be implanted by therapists that that train of thought has been extremely revictimizing of survivors.

Yep, agreed, there are those studies, and I have read some of them. Then they did it, empirically... proved, evidence, fact. That tends to minimize someone who is looking to say it can't be done immediately, because it HAS been done, time and time again and documented, by scientists, researchers and mental health experts / specialists.

This fact, empirical evidence, is what changed the foundation of therapy itself to person centered, being to not lead and plant information within a persons mind within a vulnerable state, as that vulnerability is factually shown to be able to manifest the information into a believed experience and own it as their own.

 

[i think its very sad]

I assume that my mother's hatred & rejection of me was consistent throughout my entire life so I guess I fit into the catagory you are seeking. Does it really matter when it started? If you're like me, there are enough memories of horrible cruelty to a very young child that I do remember to account for the problems I've had throughout my life. Do i really need to remember all of that? Sounds to me like she was telling you that to make you take the blame for causing the abuse; this I'm familiar with. You are very lucky if she feels any guilt or even admits that she did anything wrong. I was apparently born evil, forced her to hate me and deserved everything I got. Is it possible that you are trying to accept and realize that you were abused and to what extent? I'm familiar with that. I was a 20 year old grown woman before professionals could convince me that my mother hated me and abused me. All of the guilt had always been mine & she never admitted anything & was never sorry for anything. She was a lovely person, the perfect mother & I've never been able to admit to anyone all the horrible things that she did.Do you see how confusing this can all be? She's the person you love most in the world, the person you need most & I can tell you that it is hard for me to go on loving her and hating her and she's been in her grave for almost 30 years.

 

[i think its very sad]

Maybe she'll really be sorry & you can forgive her. Maybe that will help. I hope so. My mother's still causing hell from her grave. I can't have any kind of relationship with my much younger siblings because of my saying bad things about their sainted mother. They were lucky I was around to raise them and protect them from her. And they're confused, they remember seeing her beat me and they don't want to be reminded of that. It wasnt that bad and I'm just feeling sorry for myself & on and on. I think what they really want is for me to take all of the blame for everything. I'm having all kinds of trouble with my oldest son because my sister told him all kinds of crap and he's not going to tell me what she said happened to me. Does it ever stop? If I would just admit that I just want to be sick all the time & I'm not really sick anyway. I can't ever forgive my mother, and I know what that's done to my life. I hope things will be different for you.

 

[anthony]

Sounds like my wifes mother... :cautious: