Preverbal Trauma - Infancy

[i think its very sad]

Yeah, I realize that it would be impossible to be a perfect mother & that nobody has had one. I was a bad mother because I was sick all the time & its hard to get therapy for all of the crap that my mother did when the professionals seem to think that I was probably abusing my own children the same way my mother abused me.What a mess she made in this world. And they would tell me my mother was a sociopath. Well, that may be true but she kept it well hidden from the rest of the world. She never had an overt symptom of any kind of emotional anything. She was always in complete control of herself and every situation and won awards for being mother of the year. She never lost her temper, she never had a temper. Everything she did to me was cold and calculated and she enjoyed it. But no, she wasnt a mental case at all; she was a lovely woman & everybody loved her. She was an amazing actress. I have no idea how she treated me as an infant but I have no memory of ever being held or touched or told I was loved or anything like that. I was coldly tolerated at best & in my memory she didnt even bother to put on an act that she cared for me. When I was older she'd put on a little show for my friends because she liked for them to think she was wonderful, but we both understood that this was just for show. So, I have no plans of trying to remember all of the abuse & I hope thats not called for.

 

[anthony]

Healing PTSD has never been about "requiring" to remember all the abuse, but more about correcting what is presently felt. Often you must review the past to deal with that, but in complex trauma, that is not always the case, or even required, as the abuse stems so far, you can just work on changing the behaviour / thoughts now vs. worrying about all the past. If you can get a person to retrain their own brain that the past is the past, and its made us who we are now, though does not define who we will be in the future, then half the battle is won in this regard with reviewing trauma. But the person really does have to believe that, and accept their abuse... some will try that but suppress / ignore that their abuse occurred.

There are many ways to tackle the past... most are head on, but not always.

 

[Kintsugi]

Hi Clover,

This touches a little on what 'i think it's very sad' was saying. If your mother really felt angry at you for that long and at such a young age, it is possible that she didn't give you the attention that is normal for mothers to give their children. A simple factor of her just not picking you up, handling you, socializing with you, basically bonding with you at your developmental years could have some influence over your long-term development. I know that a controversial study about this was done using twins (one was cared for, the other ignored other than basic needs and material gratification), and I know that the conclusion was that the twin who was not handled developed much more poorly than the other, but I do not have the specific information or a link to this study (I would try Google Scholar?). There was a much more popular study done with baby apes who were given two mannequin mothers. One was soft, the other gave milk and was made of wire. The babies immediately preferred to cling to the one that was cuddly, and the conclusion was that intimacy with a mother could be more important to infants than hunger. In any case, I reference these examples because I think that your relationship with your mother could very well have had lasting impact on you, birth struggle or no. If it's important to you, and I know it's hard, perhaps you should team up with your therapist to approach getting to the truth from your mother or other witnesses. This sort of digging has been painful and slow for me, but in my experience it has helped my healing.

 

[Abbi]

Ok, going to be selfish here a moment. In regards to "birth trauma" related to fetal/infant distress and planting seed of PTSD.

OK so appears there are 2 opinions yes and 2 no. On what basis are the yes opinions, this has been thrown out there and now has me doing the guilt circle that the "PTSD seed" was planted in my son born under distress. Anyone know a factually or researched based answer?

I can see me asking my T, then hear the "what snake oil have you been reading on the internet". Yes, I looked for myself all I could find was about mothers and birth trauma. Ok, call me over-sensitive but this worries me, that is fine - its my job as a mom to worry.

 

[anthony]

I am unsure exactly what you are asking Abbi. What do you mean, PTSD Seed, in your son born under duress?

Factual answers on brain and trauma are contained: [DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/c/wiki/posttraumatic-memory/[/DLMURL] with references at the bottom from experts in relevant areas, studies, journals, etc, all current to date, even though some may be decades old, still current, as nothing has superseded it. Most is current though, as you will see.

 

[allitherapy]

There is no factual data to back-up the "yes" opinions. They are just that, opinions. The science and fact of the matter is that NO, an infant is not traumatized by birth. Think about it - we would ALL be traumatized by that. As an adult, thinking about being pushed out of a vagina is traumatizing because we can think of it that way. An infant has no rational thinking, very little ability to process sensory stimuli, and lacks the brain structures to form memories.
There is no such thing as a "PTSD seed". There are genetic components to all health issues, and PTSD is no different. Your son could be genetically predisposed to PTSD, but he would have to experience significant trauma to develop the PTSD. Being born is not traumatic; it's a normal part of life. It doesn't matter what complications there were during birth, your baby doesn't know anything about that. Your baby only knows if he grew up loved and cared for, not if he got stuck in your birth canal an extra couple of minutes. Stop looking for problems where there are none and make sure you're not hurting your children. Now that's a surefire way to "plant the seed."

The mother can have a traumatic response to birth complications because she has rational thought and can process what has happened. When the baby is born, he isn't thinking "oh no, I wasn't getting enough oxygen" or "gosh I hated when the doctor used forceps to get me out"... Your baby is busy responding to the new stimuli and sensations - bright lights, colder air, breathing on his own, sounds, people, etc. There is no such thing as birth causing PTSD, period, the end.

 

[Abbi]

I guess the question that I am asking here (and sorry if I was not clear about it) is whether or not almost being strangled to death as I was being born might have been the seed of my PTSD or if it was the years of abuse which followed?

Above quote from 3rd post on thread sums it up I think....then all the following responses in a totality....
Reading through the whole thread appears to be 2 yes responses and 2 no- both pretty sure of their positions, but never mind this mess is getting a bit "out there" for me. Sorry to bother I had already read the link and the back and forth after its posting. I not sure really why but this kinda mess angers me.

 

[allitherapy]

Not sure what "mess" you're referring to. You can chose what you'd like to believe. Two people on here have information based on research, science, and truth. Two people have what they choose to believe as correct with no scientific reasoning to back it up. Bottom line, keep your kid safe and he'll be ok. You don't get PTSD from having a happy, loving, wonderful life.

 

[anthony]

Abbi, there is a lot unknown about the brain, and what is used to work with for information here is typically that of research and science. Psychology has a direct link with biology, or another way, mental is linked to physical. Some think that biological aspects cause psychological, some vice versa, when more science actually proves both, being some instances a biological cause can cause a psychological outcome, and something completely psychological can cause a biological outcome.

As Alli stated, the "yes's" are back by empirical data... which is current fact, or current truth. Will it be that way in 5, 10 or 20 years time? Maybe, maybe not... as science progresses, the truth changes due to empirical data reformulating the outcome. In simple terms... we are continually learning more and more, so the outcome will change, so fact or truth is based on current time, but not necessarily be the same in the future.

Whilst empirical data has been building over the last 5 years from neuroscience developments, using an example, it has been stated that PTSD is a chemical imbalance between the right and left brain hemispheres, which is based on the Pax Medica model pharmacology companies theorized in the 70's. There hasn't been anything to prove it wrong, until neuroscience came about.

Even though neuroscience proved this theory is incorrect near immediately, one test, two, and further, don't determine empirical findings. Instead time plus cross sectional applications that continually show the same results determine this. That is what has occurred over the past 5 or so years now, where experts are happy to state findings are empirical now, not just substantive.

It is like reading one study and concluding that studies findings should be followed. That is one side of the fence. To determine the actual answer, you would require to look at both sides of the fence across a range of studies and evidence, fore and against, to determine a clearer outcome. Even then, lots of studies never get published. It is like the SSRI evidence which all came down in scandals when research data was subpoenaed from pharmaceutical companies and Governments, showing that there were near 12 negative studies to 1 positive, yet only the positive got published. What this type of information says, is that it backs why medication is so hit and miss.... yet for some reason it works in some, not in others... apply across each medication type basically.

PTSD is changing rapidly as studies to the brain and how trauma affects it are being supercharged with neuroimagery and good old fashioned science vs. theoretical hypothesis without any physical data.

 

[anthony]

Here is a thought for you Abbi.

If a child near died at birth, and you never disclosed this to them, would they know otherwise that they nearly died at birth?

Now, if you told them during childhood, reinforced it during their life that they nearly died at birth, what do you expect to occur within their brain over time, knowing and being reinforced that they nearly died at birth? The person will begin to traumatise themselves from that knowledge, they nearly died at birth. They have no memory of the event, but it has been told to them their entire life. Did the actual event traumatise them or was it the constant reinforcement and statements to them during childhood, upwards, that they nearly died at birth that actually gave them PTSD?

The same that could be said to the original opening about this... was it the event with no memory that caused traumatization, is it now the sudden knowledge, then thinking about the knowledge, perpetuating the event within their mind, that is now traumatizing them. If the person was never traumatised before about it without the knowledge, then what changed? Someone told them who they believe, trust, to tell them the truth. This is the foundation of complex trauma in essence, because it typically starts during childhood with completely dysfunctional wiring due to abuse, instead of growing up with love, support, what would be considered "socially normal" information to build upon your foundation of life knowledge and experience.

 

[mamachick]

If you know from memory at age three that you were neglected and ignored, and/or your caretaker was not warm and caring, you can assume that this did not begin at the age you remember and can only fill in the blanks before that time. This scenerio sets up for an unhealty attachments style. You can google attachments styles(by Bolby) I think. Early attachment style can have an effect on trauma.

Therapist can plant false memories. Ive seen it happpen

Im not sure anybody can fully recover without finding forgiveness to what others have done. Through my twenties, I was very angry at my mother for being an alcoholic and neglecting me, for exposing me to things that a child should not be exposed to. She became this way due to her own family of origin, and they from theirs. I found that all I could do was to try to understand how she got that way, which I was able to do. Just as people with PTSD responses may not seem appropriate to the general public, its hard for us to understand parents behaviors. Once I discoverd that her decisions woud not have been mine but that was the best that she could do at that time, it was easier to begin forgiving. People that hurt us as children were often weak and sick. Forgiving is for ourselves.

 

[anthony]

I agree with forgiveness to an extent, though acceptance can do the job better usually vs. forgiveness. Some people should not be forgiven, nor warrant forgiveness for the acts they perform. Acceptance, which also removes negative stigma, is as apt and achieves the same thing typically within the brain, thus resolution occurs.