Faith/ Hypocrisy/ And Faith

[freakofnurture]

I'm glad you're okay with my post. So, I'll ask some more questions if you don't mind. Just tell me when you want me to stop :)

I am scared to not believe and was brought up that way.

What exactly are you scared of in non-belief? What do you lack at times when you don't believe?

I Know it does sound abusive.

But he really cares about you when he's sober?

 

[Mercy]

Dear freakofnature,
I struggled with faith too. In fact, I have tried most of them on at one time or another. My H is from a majority Hindu country.They have Shiks, Jains, Buddhists, more Muslims than in any country with the exception of Indonesia, the oldest remaining tradition of Jews, Paris (Pron. Parsees)who are Zoroastrians, Bhais exiled from Iran, and various sects of Christians.

I used to think the preaching in some of the various Protestant Churches wasn't very Biblical until I ran in some Bible thumpers who really did a good job of tearing people down. Even some Catholics keep their pews filled by preaching guilt. None of that is about God at all.

There is a huge distinction between faith/belief in Theos, God, a Higher Power and in religious institutions. No created being can ever know fully his or her creator. Any man made institution is by its very nature bound to fail because none of us is perfect. Thus the institutions that get passed down are going to be flawed by definition.

Now in the last third of my life, I find that search for belonging, has wained. Now, I can say with clarity, I belong to me. For captive me, that is a huge thing to say, Huge. I have found a faith tradition which has enriched me immensely.

And I can more than appreciate and understand people who want nothing to do with religion. That's OK. That freedom is completely yours. Sometimes, it can be because religion got tangled up with their abuse.

I hope you are not offended by this post. For me, faith and practice make the fundamental existence of my life meaningful.

 

[freakofnurture]

I hope you are not offended by this post.

I find the idea of being created rather offensive. I prefer to be the child of mudskippers and other strange beasts, birthed by nothing but blind natural laws. A necessary result, if you will, of this universe, and not the carefully pieced together product of some stranger's arbitrary intentions.

But don't worry, I respect your right to stand up and offend - your Free Speech. It's the most valuable thing you own as member of a society.

Since I have never had any faith whatsoever I cannot empathise with the things you draw from yours, but I am glad to hear that it is helpful to you and doesn't cause you or the people around you any suffering.

 

[Mercy]

Dear freakofnature,
Thank you for your kindness. I loved how you said, "But don't worry, I respect your right to stand up and offend - your Free Speech." I chuckled. ( OOPs I hope that wasn't offensive too) I have never thought of that...I have the right to stand up and offend. My family needs a good earful on that subject. Thank you!!!! I don't have freedom of speech with them. I am asked to keep anything to do with PTSD to myself, fears, isolation all have be hidden under a cover. Isolation in the evenings means sitting alone on my bed folding clean clothes.

I loved your saying, " I prefer to be the child of mudskippers and other strange beasts, birthed by nothing but blind natural laws." Evolution and science is not something I would disagree with. Hmmmm mudskippers, I like them, too.

 

[Lionheart]

I am not a very religious person so correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard that it is not by faith that we are saved, but by grace. If this is correct, a lack of faith does not necessarily put our soul in peril. It is the willful turning away that we might wish to avoid, but even then, there are a great many things that can cause us to doubt our faith. I don't think this makes us bad people but rather men and women being subjected to the human condition.

 

[Mercy]

I am not a very religious person so correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard that it is not by faith that we are saved, but by grace. If this is correct, a lack of faith does not necessarily put our soul in peril. It is the willful turning away that we might wish to avoid, but even then, there are a great many things that can cause us to doubt our faith. I don't think this makes us bad people but rather men and women being subjected to the human condition.

Lionheart,
You are right. A lack of faith does not put our souls in peril. Yes, We are subjected to the human condition. This means two main things. We will screw up (sin) or get screwed up. And two, we belong in God's house because He Loves us, not because of anything that has been done to us, or anything we have done, or not done. We are children of God, not by the will of a man, or by duty, but by the will of God. We are His children because He created us to love and be loved. BTW the word in Greek, that we translate as sin, is what an archer's attendant says when the arrow misses the target. That's all. We aimed, we shot the arrow and we missed the target. Where is the condemnation there???

His Love is not dependent on our actions . It is dependent on Him. We have free will, our most God like quality, to choose how we will live out our lives. He knows why and when we are angry with him and respects that. He knows when we sorrow and, if we let Him, comforts us. God chooses never to interfere.

So, the thing that is hardest for us to get our minds around is that He doesn't stop abuse either. That does not mean he is not a good God. It means he respects the free will of every person. He will not come into s situation unless invited by us. Terrible as your and my lives have been, we are healing and bring other people comfort. In your words something like to shine a light down the tunnel for others to see.

I know there are many sects of Christianity which require a personal declaration of belief to be "saved." They also require strict adherence to the Bible as published in their edition in English. In my corner of Christianity, we can say yes, I am saved and I am working on it. We recognize that the Bible was written over time in many languages. How many of us can read Aramaic, Hebrew, or New Testament Greek. To say that an English edition of the Bible is the definitive Word of God is just silly. Jesus is the Word of God become flesh according to the Gospel of John.
Did you know that French speaking people use the familiar 'Tu' when speaking of God not the formal Vous. The Our Father for them starts with Our Daddy the same way Jesus uses Abba, Daddy.

We were all saved, all humans in every place, and every race, regardless of tradition, throughout all time are 'saved' through Jesus' death as a man united with his divine essence and person. Since God cannot stay dead, he rose from hell, setting all the captives free as a man, one of us humans and as God, making a road to heaven for all people, once and for all. This saving act never needs to be repeated by some verbal statement from any humble creature.

Great question Lionheart. I've been working on the answer to that almost as long as I've been in Therapy!

 

[Auroch]

Friendly neighborhood atheist here. I'd be glad to talk to you as well, if you end up leaning the other way. Some people find relief in God. My peace didn't come until I decided he didn't exist - knowing that no one allowed this to happen to me that could have stopped it brought me a great deal of comfort.

 

[Mercy]

Auroch, I can certainly understand the relief in coming to the understanding that you have. And I respect you and your decision.

I don't think that God, once having given all humans freewill, could interfere and stop any of the tragdies we experienced or hear about. I don't think I could have survived the inner devastation that more than 900 rapes does to me, if I thought they were random events or that there wasn't an antidote to evil.(900 is the lowest probable number of rapes as established by a well known forensic psychologist)

 

[freakofnurture]

... knowing that no one allowed this to happen to me that could have stopped it brought me a great deal of comfort.

I've never been a believer, and this is one of the things that makes me angry with religious argumentation. It's inherently abusive.

I don't think that being a victim can ever be an exercise of informed freewill. Thus this hypothetical god respects the freewill of abusers more than the freewill of (potential) victims. All that while he installed a system that combines freewill and no crime somewhere else: In heaven. Every crime is torture by god, and he does torture us because... well, because he can. Might makes right in his eyes, apparently. And if you don't get slapped around first you won't be able to appreciate the cake you get for surviving. I wonder who abused god to make him so bitter and sadistic against his own children.

 

[Mercy]

I've never been a believer, and this is one of the things that makes me angry with religious argumentation. It's inherently abusive.

I don't understand? Can you say more about this please, about inherently abusive

I don't think that being a victim can ever... exercise of ... freewill.

I agree with you totally. The victim had no freewill. It has been coopted by the abuser.

.... In heaven. Every crime is torture by god, and he does torture us because... well, because he can. Might makes right in his eyes, apparently. And if you don't get slapped around first you won't be able to appreciate the cake you get for surviving. I wonder who abused god to make him so bitter and sadistic against his own children.

I am having the audacity to change a few of your words. Please forgive me if and when I offend you. That is not my intent at all. I value you and all points of view. They enrich each of us through honesty and compassion.

Every crime is torture by god. Every crime tortures God, and he does torture us...because, well he can. and he stands with us when we are tortured.

Might makes right, in his eyes, apparently. Jesus did not use might when he went willing to the cross, he went humbly to die outside the city in total humiliation.

I wonder who abused god to make him so bitter and sadistic against his own children.

I don't know how to answer you. I want to honor your perfect right to hold any point of view that is true for you. I'm sad that your abuse hurt your spirit as well as your body and mind.

Please feel free to skip this last thought.

You are right, we are his children, and we come in existance to learn to love and be loved by God and other people.

The Orthodox Christian view of God is that he is uncontainable, we cannot fully describe him or put Him in the box of our limited understanding. He is unchangeable. He is omnipresent, therefore knows every tiny detail of our pain. Especially in the New Testament since we cannot see God, Jesus came to show us God in a form which we could receive.

All too often, it is the people who wrong us. Elie Weisle is a Jewish concentration camp survivor and a famous writer about the Holocost in WW11 and living as a survivor. He was asked this question, "Where was G*d." Mr. Weisel said,"That is the wrong question. The question is where were all the people."

 

[Auroch]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."


— Marcus Aurelius

I live by this.

 

[Mercy]

Great quote. That is a really good summation and a good premise to live by.

I love the classics. For the longest time I had '"Call no man blessed until you know the manner of his death." Socrates or Plato...I had seen so much death, so much.

I live by this statement from the Hypocratic Oath, "Do no harm." I saw it when I was in a Drs. exam room while I was alone. I was an early reader and picked the shortest sentence to try to read. I vowed to live by that." Do no harm." I wasn't going to let my perps, especially the trainers, read tortures, turn me into one of them. It worked. I still live by the law of mercy.