Why Do Untreated People Who Know They Have A Mental Illness Have Children?

[Oleco]

My biggest problem with this conversation is that it, in my mind, continues the belief of mental illness being a taboo.

Disagree. This topic is about mental illness and not seeking treatment but going ahead and having children. Nothing about taboos.

I think this topic is about using children to "fix" or ignore your own issues, instead of working to fix them yourself.

I also think being mentally ill does not immediately mean you'll transfer your 'chaos' onto your children. I've seen success stories with my own eyes. Mentally ill and untreated does not immediately equal a bad parent

I haven't seen any success stories. I've seen this forum, though. Sure, having children without diagnosis of mental illness might lead to problems. That's not the topic.

In my mind, mentally ill and untreated equals Russian roulette.

Why defend someone who knows they've got problems ignoring that and having kids? Because in some cases in happens to turn out OK? What about all the other cases? And it's not like there weren't any things to think about beforehand, other than how cute it would be have a baby.

 

[Fefolu]

Quid pro quo - Why do people in failing relationships have kids?

Because they engage in magical thinking believing that if they create "a family" somehow the relationship will continue. It seems that often this is the death knell for the relationship.

 

[Gegu]

Because they want to life a normal life and do normal things :)

 

[Popu]

Why inflict your chaos on a child like that?

I have seen 'normal' people inflict this on children.

 

[Pedatij]

I think in any circumstance, if you're having a child for anything other than you really want one, then chances are the relationship is going to be bad and the child will suffer as a result. Whether a single parent, couple or adopting, having a child is something that all parties need to be committed to.

If you can't handle having an animal, looking after them, taking care of them when sick, caring for their needs beyond what you want for yourself, then you shouldn't be having a child... because they require that exact level of dedication and attentiveness, where you simply cannot be selfish and your role is to care for them to the best of your ability.

Have you ever noticed that animal lovers are some of the best in raising children!!! There is no them, but 'us' mentality the entire time. Selflessness versus selfishness!

 

[Womogi]

I think there are two questions here: Why do those that have untreated mental illness and aware of it have children and should they children.

I think there are lots if different answers for the first but in my opinion there is only one answer for the second - no. Yes there are many with mental health issues that are safe parents but the chances of there being problems for those children is much higher than for children of parents with no mental health issues.

I suspect the ones that are good parents are open to learning, are very self aware and work hard not to harm their children. That they focus all their energy on doing so. Sadly the ones that probably should be doing that are the least likely to do so. Children should have every chance in the world of being safe and happy. The most dangerous people off all are probably those who have no awareness of being having mental health issues and have never been diagnosed let alone had help.

I have no doubt that I would have been a good enough mother but I would never take the chance as I felt it was too important. Children are too important.

Vepin, I am glad it all worked out well and glad you survived but I have to admit that they way you word your reasons for having children deeply disturbed me. Or should I say it is rather the fact that they don't disturb you now that really concerns me. And you do imply that they treat you like shit. That makes me wonder a little.

I wanted someone to love me. ... that's HOW I SURVIVED.

I am sure you are a dedicated parent but it concerns me that it is only "me... me... me".

In my opinion children should only ever be had to be loved. Never to fill some whole or fix some wound. They are human beings and should not be born for their usefulness in any way.

I do believe that those with mental health issues and who are getting help and dedicated to the well being of their children and who are not having children for their own gain are fine to have children. I think they can be wonderful parents even. As long as they have no history of being physically, emotionally or sexually abusive to others or have been but are now treated and no longer at risk of doing so again.

 

[Vepin]

Some people believe they are powerless to create good or evil, that their actions have no cause or effect. In this way, they believe that they can do and say whatever they want, and the world can respond however it wants... but that cannot be predicted with any reliability. This powerlessness absolves them of any responsibility for others, including their children.

They will cite many examples of children growing up in abhorrent atmospheres and becoming the epitome of goodness... while others may grow up in lavish, loving homes and become selfish, scoundrels at best.

My mother drilled this attitude into me throughout childhood to justify her own inaction and bad advice. I understand why she believes this stuff, but I know that she is an alcoholic who probably suffers with undiagnosed/untreated PTSD. She'd rather believe she's powerless than take any responsibility for her actions.

 

[Vepin]

I do believe that those with mental health issues and who are getting help and dedicated to the well being of their children and who are not having children for their own gain are fine to have children. I think they can be wonderful parents even.

This is a process, one that I have been on since before I had children. I was under treated, which I know now in hindsight. I shared some personal experiences because I find it difficult to generalize. You may judge me if you like, but I meet the basic criteria of a good parent. I strive for excellence, and I fall short. It's discouraging for me, and disappointing too. But, when I succeed... it's pure joy.

I wanted someone to love me. ... that's HOW I SURVIVED.

This is a ridiculous misquote as it states that I wanted someone to love me, and implies that that is how I survived. By wanting someone to love me? If you have two separate quotes to back up your statement, then it might be best to quote them separately so they don't change the meaning and ... well... lose their meaning.

I am sure you are a dedicated parent but it concerns me that it is only "me... me... me".

I shared about myself because I can talk about myself pretty well without causing too much anxiety. I don't share about my kids on the open forum. I have discussed some parenting tips. I've discussed my struggles. But, my kids and how they experience life are private.

And you do imply that they treat you like shit. That makes me wonder a little.

I didn't mean to imply they treat me like shit. My point was that when I thought (before deciding to have them) that I wanted them to love me, I realized in the next breath that I would just teach them to treat me like shit the same as I had taught other people to treat me like shit. I do believe that you teach people how to treat you, but not because you control them... because you allow or reject them based on how they treat you. I pictured myself being a pushover with my kids, and them running over me.

My first post is a first person, somewhat detailed answer to the questions asked... as I see them pertaining to me because, in hindsight, I know that I was under treated for PTSD. I needed help and didn't know how to get it. I didn't know what was wrong. I didn't know what I didn't know, until I knew it, and then I freaked out. Others may look to it and pick it apart if they want, but people are real. I am real. And, this kind of conversation can sometimes be very cerebral and not very realistic.

Accepting that there may be some parents with mental illness who are wonderful, as long as they're trying is a little different than accepting a specific person with specific details, who is trying. I think our world is full of hypocrisy, whereby sweeping generalizations of acceptance can be made, while a person will still laugh at or mock another one for being mentally ill.

Of course taboo has a lot to do with this discussion, since taboo will keep a lot of people away from much needed mental health assistance. It's not just that they're afraid of what other people would think, but afraid of what they would think of themselves. Denial kicks in and they can live with themselves again, without going to a therapist.

Taboo isn't just what people think of mental illness, but how they treat those who express symptoms in public. When people witness others laughing at someone with mental illness, or gossiping about them after the person leaves, etc... then people know they can't allow others to see them in any kind of moment of weakness... at least where true mental illness is suspected. Taboo is prevalent, much like racism and sexism.

 

[Citid]

I don't share about my kids on the open forum. ... But, my kids and how they experience life are private.

I certainly did not mean that you should. My point was that you discussed your thought process and it was all related to how things would have affected you. If you had rather said: "I wanted a child of mine into everything I did not have and to be happy and healthy and well adjusted" instead of your focus rather being about what use a child would be to you and what holes it would fill then I would have felt differently.

I am sorry you were under treated, that you could not access more help and very glad that you found a way to successfully parent your children.

 

[Vepin]

I wanted a child of mine into everything I did not have and to be happy and healthy and well adjusted" instead of your focus rather being about what use a child would be to you and what holes it would fill then I would have felt differently.

Personally, none of my selfish hopes would come to fruition if my kids were suffering. I need them to provide some of the good in my life... the reward. What reward would it be to have children who are growing up like I did? Who feel as isolated and lonely as I did as a child? Who feel rejected, demoralized or as fearful as I was? That's no reward. That's back in hell. So, although it was with saving myself in mind... my kids must benefit from our family or it was all for naught.

 

[Kaho]

Because I didn't understand how sick I was. It took becoming a parent to understand that. :(

 

[Oso]

Those people shouldn't have kids.

People like that need to be spayed or neutered!!!

Wow. And who is going to administer this eugenics program of deciding who is good enough to parent? We've tried that a bunch of times throughout history--several times in the US. It doesn't go well.

I want "untreated" defined. And "addiction".

I have two children. I have been suicidal more often than not since I was a small child. I did partially have children so that I could have a tether to this world. I f*cking owe them a total of twenty years of care (total) and I take that seriously. I knew that I was taking on a twenty year obligation to the world. I did it on purpose. I'll figure out how to get through the twenty years after that once they are grown.

I have mixed feelings about the word "untreated". I am 31. I have been in and out of therapy (often court ordered) since I was 3. I am on therapist # 21. I haven't tried every single drug in the entire arsenal but I have done med rounds trying to control my issues. When I decided to have children I was in a very good period and I hadn't been on any kind of medication in a long time and I phased out of therapy. I knew that at some point in the future that would change.

So it looked a lot like I was "untreated" and still suicidal but choosing to have children. I have gotten through all of my life by going from thing to thing. Being a mother is a damn good job for keeping me alive and dedicated let-me-tell-you.

I know that a lot of mothers are neglectful. Just because I am mentally ill that doesn't mean that I will be. Even if I am between therapists or not currently being treated I am capable of setting up systems of checks and balances and I make g-d sure I am not neglecting my kids. My kids get a lot of attention and a lot of supervised free play (they are very little). Things wil change as they get older.

When my uncle died (the only male caregiver from my childhood who never tried to rape me) and I divorced my family and had a break down and I was not capable of taking care of my kids I put out a call to my friends.

People were with me for more than a week while I grieved and keened out my pain. I mostly stayed in the garage and friends (other mothers) came over and it was a week long play-date fest. My friends made all the food and did the cleaning. I took care of me. When that period was over my friends patted me on the head and went back to our normal friendship. I found a good therapist, wrote a book to get the full story of my childhood out so I could figure out how to handle it, and I keep trying to figure shit out.

But when I had kids I was "untreated". I was not on any medication. When I was pregnant with my first child my therapist of *7* years overdosed on heroin. Welcome to motherhood. No support for you.

I approach just about everything in life as if it is a subject that can be learned. I know that all of my parenting instincts are bad. I know that my instincts about just about everything are bad. My whole life is a self-help project. I don't watch tv. I don't read novels very often. I read non-fiction books and research studies. My topics shift over time.

I want to be a good parent more than I want anything in the whole wide world. I know that when they are 18 they don't owe me a relationship. I hope they will want to have a relationship with me. I think I have to be a good enough parent to deserve having them as a friend later. They are not me. They have boundaries. They have preferences. I have to treat them like individual people I have to get to know and figure out how to most usefully help.

I got a teaching credential then a graduate degree in literature. Now I have done enough reading to qualify for several early childhood development degrees but I don't feel like paying for them.

I'm doing pretty well as a parent. We are part of a large and busy community. People see and know my kids. People are consciously watching my kids. I write on my blog about my mental health issues. I am ridiculously open about where I am. I have been this open since I was nineteen. I have viewed my route to safety through existing openly and trying to have a unified self. I don't bring up my mental health issues when I talk to people unless they read my writing and know already. People are *shocked* when they start reading my writing. "You seem so normal." Ha.

I am a really good actor.

But a lot of how I manage to stay calm is I smoke pot. I have a medical card. I got a recommendation from a therapist and I went to see a nice doctor. I've seen him several times and we are developing a relationship. There is a large consensus amongst my doctor, my therapist, and myself at this point that I am not going to be a life long smoker. It hasn't been four years. But right now I need it.

I will go back to being unmedicated; I don't think I will continue with this therapist forever because she is an emdr specialist and we are not a great talk therapy match. Hopefully by the time my kids are in the 6-11 range. So. Hurry up me.

What does "untreated" mean?

I don't cut any more because I don't want to model it.
I don't beat my head because I don't want to model it.
I am not promiscuous because I don't want to model it.
I don't hit *any one* because I don't want to model it.
If I start to scream I cut myself off, apologize, and try to continue in a reasonable tone.

What does untreated mean. I am not going to be on medication even though I am unstable. I make progress. I work. But I am not always being "treated" by anyone. Life is very complicated. I don't think that my fitness for parenthood should rest on having a "treatment relationship".

I'm mentally ill. I will be for my entire life. I have PTSD. I have GAD (anxiety), depression, and a really lot of anger issues.

But I'm nice to my kids. When I'm not I acknowledge that I was wrong and I apologize.

My chaos is managed. I wouldn't call it "treated" but it is managed. I have appropriate spaces and places for outlets. I have support. I ensure that I am a fully realized person to the people in my life with all the good and the bad fully displayed. I am extremely functional given my level of trauma and psych problems. But my days are a mix of good and bad. I cry nearly every day. I have it scheduled in an appropriate way. My kids do have to deal with me being kind of difficult during travel and I'm a gypsy. I'm working on it. Things are improving rapidly as they get older. No more babies.

What is "untreated"?