Why Do Untreated People Who Know They Have A Mental Illness Have Children?

[Cago]

I love this thread.

It's not just about people having a right to have kids.

Do you know how many people don't give a flying fig about birth control?!? "Whoops, I got pregnant....whoops it happened again...etc". Do you know how many guys use the "I don't want to use a condom" line? Really, it's sickening.

I am a FIRM believer that only those who truly want kids for unselfish reasons should have them. Damn straight it would cut down on child abuse.

Then you have people who want kids so someone will take care of them when they're old. Or simply because its what you do in life. Grow up, get job, get married, have kids.

My brother and I are both messed up. Neither of us want kids, but ALL my cousins just keep popping them out. My mom pities us, thinking we'll die alone.

Oh yeah and then there's the pressure from others to have kids. "My mom wants grand kids so I guess ill give them to her".

 

[Ivuw]

Wow. And who is going to administer this eugenics program of deciding who is good enough to parent? We've tried that a bunch of times throughout history--several times in the US. It doesn't go well.

I wish I could quote this entire post. It is one of the best I've ever read. Thank you for speaking out for the rest of us, who may have a mental illness but are not child abusers or bad people.

 

[Tikeme]

I like the post above that talks about the importance of self-awareness.
We may not be able to treat our PTSD to the point of elimation, but we can be aware of our behavior and actions.
Some mentally non-challenged people have not developed the level of self-awareness needed to raise children.
It seems to me many people here are MORE capable then being self-aware then other non mentally ill people.

I decided not to have kids because I'm constantly suicidal as I struggle and fail to deal with this disorder.
I do like the post on the previous page in which a woman talks about how she had kids and made a decision to live. It seems like I don't often hear good things about being a parent with PTSD. So it's good to hear that if something really makes the effort that it's possible.

Anyway I think talking about this in terms of having an untreated condition is not fair. I've actually run into more trouble at times from seeking treatment! Like being prescribed bad medication only to have to ween off later. I have seen therapist but that's not a magic bullet either.

I think it's a matter of self-awareness and people who aren't self-aware or don't have the ability to be self-aware should not have kids regardless of their mental state.

I just find that original post unsavory.

I think many people who try to get better from this disorder have very high levels of self-awareness. We suffered in part because we were abused by people who did not have high levels of self-awareness and so we seek to know and understand and believe the truth. I think anyone who struggles to move from from PTSD is likely self critical and self aware.

I have people in my life that are mentally healthy but are less able to see themselves clearly.

 

[Ofoz]

try to get better

self-awareness

I think you clarified something. I think saying "untreated" is probably a euphemism for a combination of self awareness and actively doing something to get better. I think these things are what we are really talking about here.

I will add something to these two points if we really want to be specific. Personality is the other issue. And if someone has personality issues then again both self awareness and actively doing something to get better are essential. Behaviours and mindsets linked to narcissism, borderline personality disorder and conditions as sociopathy are disasters waiting to happen when it comes to parenthood without those two things. Empathy being key even though not the only only issue.

I think empathy is probably a huge buffering factor when it comes to how mental health affects someones parenting.

I disagree that self awareness is always a problem in parenting in general though. For example I have a family friend who is extremely unaware as a person and ye was a good father. Not perfect maybe but he did not need to be self aware as his parenting and behaviour was good.

I stand by my stance of children being more important than anyones feelings etc though. The world would be a way better place if we put the safety of children above all else.

 

[Oke]

I connect with this thread because one of my parents was severely mentally ill and untreated. I grew up wishing for death and wishing I had been aborted rather than be terrorized everyday in a hell I never thought would end. I understand the question because I grew up asking it myself. I don't think it applies to people who are not tormenting their children and making them beg for death. But it was the kind of question that went through my mind all the time. Why didn't you abort me and spare me from this? If someone is mentally ill and they aren't tormenting their kids, then in my opinion this question isn't directed at them.

 

[Ivuw]

If someone is mentally ill and they aren't tormenting their kids

And how do we decide that exactly? If they aren't hitting them? If they aren't telling them they're worthless? Torment is too broad a term and leaves too many grey areas. My mom is borderline and cut herself often in front of me, she wasn't hurting me or telling me it was my fault, but it was torture watching her hurt herself. She also told me when I was very young that she didn't know how to love me, and I know she didn't mean that there was something wrong with me, but it shattered my sense of shelter and security. She was in and out of mental hospitals GETTING TREATMENT and I spent so much time visiting her in them that I developed a phobia of hospitals that retraumatizes me to this day if I set foot in one. All of that could be defined as torment.

It seems to me that the people asking this question are asking from a place of deep personal pain and that is okay. I can understand and empathize because I know that pain also. But the people who think they need to lose their right to have children or lose the children they already have are one step away from saying mentally ill people shouldn't have children at all. As people with mental illnesses, I find it troubling we're so willing to condemn people fighting demons much like ours. I'm not saying child abuse should be excused, I'm simply saying we can't blame mental illness for it. Often times it's either a self esteem issue or ignorance.

 

[Iher]

My personal experience of an untreated mentally ill person is someone who ranted day after day about how she would kill me and others who she thought were out to destroy her. To be fair there were others who were further up the hit list than I was. However I was certainly one of the easiest for her to have access to so I would have to say that realistically I was pretty high up there. On the day they finally took her away to the mental hospital I could sleep that night knowing I wasn't going to find a knife in my chest that night. Yay! That was a good day! Once the meds started my chances of ending up dead decreased dramatically.

The OP's question is a personal question that I would have asked to my parent if I actually spoke to her in an honest way. After all, isn't it illogical to have a child if you're then going to spend endless amounts of time talking about killing them? If you don't want the child to exist you can skip some steps by not having them in the first place, rather than having them, raising them, and then killing them. This is just logical. So in my opinion in certain cases the question is valid.

Now, "mental illness" encompasses a huge spectrum. It doesn't mean that someone is going to be a bad parent. They might even be a fantastic parent. I never said anything about putting regulations on anyone with mental health issues. I might ask a diabetic, "Why are you eating sugar all day long? Why don't you eat beef jerky instead?" but I don't propose banning sugar and mandating the consumption of beef jerky. I can still question why one person in particular seems to be acting in an irrational manner that is contrary to their interests.

 

[Ivuw]

I never said anything about putting regulations on anyone with mental health issues.

I didn't mean you in particular, but the conversation as a whole. It's an okay question to ask when speaking from a personal stand point. But other posters quickly took it to different places.

It seems to me that the people asking this question are asking from a place of deep personal pain and that is okay. I can understand and empathize because I know that pain also. But the people who think they need to lose their right to have children or lose the children they already have are one step away from saying mentally ill people shouldn't have children at all.

And in the first page of this discussion you'll find plenty saying exactly that(the last sentence in my quote) actually. In my case, I had no idea I was mentally ill. When I had children, I began to realize something was wrong within the first year when my abuser said something about my daughter's genitalia and it awakened all my old fears and feelings and I suddenly realized why I had always told myself I would never have children. Because I had been abused and was afraid I would continue the cycle. So within the second year I started seeing a therapist and got diagnosed. Now my diagnosis has upped from PTSD to Bipolar 2 in addition and I can't afford the medication I would need to treat my Bipolar 2. I've tried everything, filled out forms and joined government programs and basically, because my children are already insured, the government refuses to insure me. In fact they refused 3 times.

So I know I have a mental illness that is going untreated, I know it puts me at risk because people with my condition have a considerably higher suicide rate. But I cannot at the current time get the treatment I know I need. Should I give my children fully to an abusive man who has been investigated for sexual abuse? Or should I turn them over to the foster system where they'll likely be separated and cause more mental illness for THEM if they lose the only family they've ever known and have to battle their own behavioral delays with people who don't know them? Please do tell me what the proper course of action is if my having them is wrong? I'm not taking this personally any longer, simply using my situation as an example for why this question is more complex than whether or not mentally ill people are fit to be parents without being treated.

 

[Ofoz]

So I know I have a mental illness that is going untreated,

I think its helpful to look directly at your situation as sometimes that clears things up regarding what others are intending. Especially when it obviously hits on sensitive areas.

You did not know that there were any problems. You have nothing to feel badly about. I also think you cant totally consider yourself as being untreated. It seems you are on this site and working on getting better and being a good parent. It also seems you are pretty self aware.

Yes this may not be ideal but, no, giving up your child is not the answer. Someone abusive or the foster system would be a far from ideal solution! And i do think you can be a very good parent despite the situation.

Still personally if I did know ahead and think I was at risk of suicide etc then I would not choose to have children.

I really hope you manage to find some way to get medication for the bipolar. That seems imperative.