Is Dissociation Universal?

[Pietro]

My therapist keeps telling me I have to talk to "my children" (my various traumatic experiences) and let them know that I'm there for them, that I'm not going to abandon them, and that they can trust me. I thought this was kind of silly, initially -- after all, calling them "my children" was just a clever technique for dealing with the trauma, right? Apparently, there's much more to it than this.

I read the following article, from Compton's Encyclopedia, on dissociation. It gives a really good understanding of this as a continuum:
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/dissociation.html

So, between what my therapist seemed to be suggesting, and the information from this article and elsewhere, I'm getting the following picture: that each traumatic instance or period, even if minor, creates it's own little niche within a person's mind, frozen in time at the moment of the trauma. If the trauma is severe enough, this dissociation can result in a completely separate personality, as in those with MPD/DID (Multiple Personality Disorder / Dissociative Identity Disorder). But even when not severe enough to cause such a formal break, she seems to be suggesting that some separation still occurs -- at a lesser level, but enough to have some identity of its own.

If this is accurate (and if I'm interpreting my therapist correctly), this is very important in how we approach treatment for PTSD, because, for childhood trauma, we are *literally* dealing with children when dealing with such trauma -- because, apparently, the mind creates a snapshot of its mental state at the time of the trauma and stores it with (or containing) the traumatic experience. Thus, part of resolving each individual trauma is being able to communicate with the part of the mind harboring the given traumatic experience -- on the level understood within that snapshot.

What are your thoughts on this? Does this resonate with anyone? Or does this just sound like a bunch of bunk?

 

[Pencil]

Pietro

Totally. In the past year I've learnt about structural dissociation (also read Kathy Steele's articles on it) and understand myself and my behaviour for the first time in my life.

But I do think it is more than a snapshot, although 'it' is stuck in that time. Part of the difficulty I have is that I have two 4 year olds. One is running, literally, and the other one doesn't speak. And I feel like such an ASS saying this.

 

[Pietro]

I will look into Kathy Steele's writing; thanks for the reference. :)

Why do you feel it's more than a snapshot? I'm not asking because I disagree, but because I'm interested in your perspective. The "snapshot" concept was the first thing that came to mind for me. I'm certain that it could be much deeper than this.

You'll have to forgive me -- when I first read about your "two 4 year olds", I thought you were discussing your "physical" children; however, I believe you are actually referring to your "inner" children. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm new to the terminology.

Why do you feel like an ass for saying any of this?

 

[cat]

I understand what you are saying here Pietro. I too felt strange when my T suggested the same but making a link between myself as an adult and that of my 3 yr old self has lead me to a greater underdtanding of my behaviour & thinking.

We worked on this through EMDR which helped me talk about my childhood & to explorer the things that had happened to me without the embarrassment i was experiencing, it also raised some trauma i was unaware of.I still have a lot of work to do but I no longer blame myself for my thoughts & fears, instead I can comfort my inner child with strategies I've learnt.

I havent heard of Kathy Steeles writing I will look into it.

 

[Pencil]

I will look into Kathy Steele's writing; thanks for the reference. :)

Why do you feel it's more than a snapshot? I'm not asking because I disagree, but because I'm interested in your perspective.

I believe you are actually referring to your "inner" children.
Why do you feel like an ass for saying any of this?

Hi Pietro

Yes, two inner ones.

It is more than a snapshot as it is not only a memory, it is a 'being' or a 'state' - which is dynamic, trapped in a 'zone'. They 'live'. But you're right, the snapshot is how it appeared to me as well. It's how one accesses or identifies them. The snapshot is the moment that the split took place, and shows where they are trapped.

I don't know why I feel like an ass for saying it - I guess it sounds absurd, or dramatic. But I also know that it will take more than talking to them to actually heal. Mainly, I think, because when I go into one of those states, the adult me is not present. I can't be both (or more) at the same time.

 

[zaniara]

My therapist do talk about my "little me" too, and yes it's kind of corny somehow.. But yet I think it's accurate to talk about it, and sometimes I really do behave like that little child inside, the one I hid and could never really be. Since I just "shut down" during that time.. When I'm overwhelmed I think I act like that child- and sometimes it's like a 4 year old and sometimes like a 14 year old, or anything inbetween that, and I need to understand and treat my self well even when I, in the here and now, have those emotions I never could handle or was able to even feel back than. If that sentence makes any sense at all! :D However, my therapist does not talk to me about how to take care of her(little me), but is trying to help me find ways to take care of me(and her) just in subtler ways and not saying it as directly as your T. is.

He do talk about little me, and sometimes I think he manage to connect to HER and bypass that rational part of my brain who is the "grown-up". I've acted like a little child in his office at times, and it's been very scary and embarrassing, but really good to be able to let him help HER. Since that's what we are doing. Helping the little me who has been lost and abandoned by so many persons, but most of all by memyselfandI.

At times I've literally tried to kill the "little me", and hated her. Hated my own "childishness". Now I know I have to find that part in me and let it live but handle it in constructive ways and not "BE the child" in my grown-up life. Since when I lose contact with "grown-up-me" I act in ways that are really destructive. (When I dissociate much and the anxiety is really bad I do that more: like run away from people I love, or push people away, or hurt my self in some way: out of despair.. It's almost always out of despair I act like that.) - And I don't have MPD/DID (Multiple Personality Disorder / Dissociative Identity Disorder). Just "complex PTSD" or rather complex trauma and severe PTSD.

 

[intothelight]

I have been diagnosed with Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (DDNOS) and find that many members here, who suffered childhood truama, have some type of dissociation. For me, it was the loss of time and having no memory of events.

It is interesting to hear other members write about their inner child(ren), as I have always thought that I was born an "old soul" and never really had a childhood. Perhaps this is due to the loss of memories from the ages of 4 to 14, but I haven't seen much being written about not having an inner child.

My therapist has attributed this to me cutting off, or disassociating from my emotions. Since most of my flashbacks are emotional, she has referred to them as frozen emotions. Has anyone else run into this concept or has a similar type of disassociation?

 

[Pietro]

It is more than a snapshot as it is not only a memory, it is a 'being' or a 'state' - which is dynamic, trapped in a 'zone'. They 'live'.

Brilliant! That is what I was missing -- they "live". They start out as a snapshot of your mind at the time of the trauma, and live on, frozen at that time and age, waiting for resolution. I had an experience today which seemed to confirm some of this.

Yes, two inner ones.

For all the understanding I've gained regarding dissociation, this is an experience I cannot claim to know or feel. I know others have spoken about becoming "co-aware" with their alters, over time. I wish I had a fuller understanding of this.

Helping the little me who has been lost and abandoned by so many persons, but most of all by memyselfandI.

I have always been told that part of what causes depression is about abandoning yourself, but I don't think I understood that at all until just this week. *Really* understood it.

At times I've literally tried to kill the "little me", and hated her. Hated my own "childishness". Now I know I have to find that part in me and let it live but handle it in constructive ways and not "BE the child" in my grown-up life.

Wow, I felt the exact same way. I hated my "inner child". Blamed him for everything, because that's what I'd learned to do. Couldn't blame the real culprits because I relied on them for survival and guidance. So, I took their advice and decided I was the no-good, worthless human being they treated me like.

I have now found my "inner child/children" and started a dialog with them. However, I have no idea how they eventually reintegrate. I'm not even sure if they ever do, fully. Perhaps the best I can hope for is that we all work in-phase with one another. ;)

I have always thought that I was born an "old soul" and never really had a childhood.

Interesting; I've always thought the same thing, and have even had people tell me this on more than one occasion. Worse, time tends to stand-still for me. I don't sense time passing, don't sense the "distance" of time when I haven't seen people for a while, etc. It's almost as if my entire awareness is frozen in time, sometimes.

Since most of my flashbacks are emotional, she has referred to them as frozen emotions.

I think this is almost exactly what I'm experiencing as well. I have more emotional experiences than visual -- the only image flashbacks I usually get are from my dreams -- usually when they are trying to get a point across and I'm missing it. Just like a child that feels misunderstood. ;)

I think I'm finally beginning to see some patterns here, of how this works.

 

[JustBe]

I don't feel that I have inner children, but I most definitely have missing time from when my trauma (s) occurred.

 

[Pietro]

I don't feel that I have inner children, but I most definitely have missing time from when my trauma (s) occurred.

I haven't really figured out if I don't remember much from childhood because I was young, or because of traumatic experience. I have memories starting before age 3 (a bad sign in itself), and they are spotty until age 9 or 10. I remember places and people and certain events very well; however, I don't remember my home life hardly at all. Never gave it any thought until I started trauma therapy.

 

[Pietro]

Had an interesting experience with the "inner children" concept today. I felt pretty bad early in the day, determined that I was likely triggered by something, and identified a likely culprit. I did all of the techniques suggested by my therapist to "console" this part of me, and make this part of me feel that it was being heard and protected. It worked -- I had a flood of emotion not too long afterward. There was little doubt in my mind that, as Pencil described earlier, this "entity" was "alive". I don't think everything was 100% resolved today, but at least a connection was made.

Things got a little more interesting, though. Once this connection was made, my mind flooded with all kinds of things -- images, emotions, etc. Basically, every other "inner child" wanted to be heard as well -- I'd somehow opened pandora's box. ;) It took me 30 minutes to get to a point where I could convince "them" that we had to get some other things done, but that we would continue working on things later.

Maybe I'm making this more dramatic than it really is. Nevertheless, even if it's nothing more than a gimmick to make something as abstract as trauma more concrete, so that I can deal with it, then it's working. And, frankly, I don't really think that it's a gimmick anymore.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm beginning to believe that these really are parts of myself that have been frozen in time as children, waiting for the time when I would be ready for resolution of their pain. I also said that I don't believe I have MPD/DID -- not because there's some stigma around that, but actually because I don't want to dilute the understanding of something that is very serious. My "inner identities" are nearly not as fully-developed as those in someone who has MPD/DID. They are still mostly merged with me, but, from time to time, diverge -- primarily when triggered.

All of this is still very new to me; I'm still trying to make sense of this and understand it for what it actually is. For those of you thinking that I overthink things, yes, I do -- all of my therapists tell me the same. :) Unfortunately, that's what one does when they don't have access to their emotions for the better part of their life. And treating my trauma like a detective mystery has been one of the only things that's kept me from becoming a basket case these past few months.

All I know is that, today, I made a connection with myself that was real. It was a bit frightening -- as if I'd just been told that I had sired a bunch of children that I didn't know about. ;) I had a lot of explaining to do, a lot of apologizing, and a lot of parenting. And now I have a lot of catching-up to do. But, at least things are now moving forward, not at a snail's pace, but demonstrably.

I am fairly miserable at this moment, still feeling the sadness and hurt from at least one of these "children" -- but it's no longer sadness and hurt about what a horrible person I am. It's simple sadness for the hurt, and mourning for the time and opportunity lost. There is a difference -- the former is a path to desolation, while the latter is a path to forgiveness -- and freedom.

 

[safenow]

I don't think everything was 100% resolved today, but at least a connection was made.

That is wonderful, Pietro. I remember how starteling it is when you first make contact. I saw mine speak on film from my therapist's office. I was shocked.

somehow opened pandora's box.

You called it correctly.

the former is a path to desolation, while the latter is a path to forgiveness -- and freedom.

You are now on your way to 100% healing. Don't rush it. Once you allow them to bring things to mind, they want to dump it all at once. Don't allow that. In my case, since I had so many (24) I had to go inpatient so we could get them all to calm down. When you have never been allowed to speak before and you find out you can, you tend to not want to shut up.

I am so glad you were able to open this tread and discuss with others. None of you have Multiple Personality Disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder, but now that you know what dissociation feels like, at least you can understand a little bit what it's like for those of us who do. That gives me hope.

Shutting up now.