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No More Money, No More Therapy (for Now)

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Yes Pencil, I think I understand. The inabiliy to bear or tolerate it.

Could it also be called, a wounding, a moment in time where one perhaps decides or makes up their mind, even if subconsciously, that there is no alternative even, other than they will (have to) do everything in their power to protect themself from ever going through that pain and anguish again?

PS, you're welcome. :hug:
 
a wounding, a moment in time where one perhaps decides or makes up their mind, even if subconsciously, that there is no alternative even, other than they will (have to) do everything in their power to protect themself from ever going through that pain and anguish again?
The weird thing is, I am utterly incapable of protecting myself against it!! Don't know how to explain. It's like having no skin in that area.
 
That sucks Pencil. I totally get why your so socially isolated as well. You must feel vulnerable.

I relate to what your saying as well. My experience is a bit different but similar. For me it feels more like how you would experience a child tugging on the hem of her mother's skirt to get her attention.
 
I tend to run you off before you can abandon me. If you stick around, you must like me or something because I am sure, at times, I can make anyone want to leave. I am married, however, but I don't trust him fully because when we argue, he always uses the most hurtful things to fight with leaving me wondering if he really wants to be here. Not exactly the most healthy way for either of us to deal with anything but I think it is both of our defense mechanisms kicking in. I want to run, he wants to kick below the belt. He has a butt load of baggage too! I think that is one reason why I stuck with him, he had more perceivable baggage than me so I almost felt normal and he wouldn't take no for an answer. ;)
 
I guess look at it like it is more of a business relationship instead of a intimate relationship?... Anything on a more intimate friendship level and I would be out.

I think your approach is very different to mine!

What I have (had?) is the opposite of business-like, but I wouldn't call it intimacy or friendship. Both those seem to imply a two-way thing, which it can't be, and my therapist is definitely not a friend. I wish she was, sessions would be much more enjoyable! Not so helpful, though. Caring doesn't mean there's no hard work. Actually, the caring is hard work in itself, in my world.

I see therapy itself as the containment. It's a safe space where I can be vulnerable, and that does mean dependency on my therapist to be able to hold that space. Which isn't a dependency I can switch on and off around the sessions.

It's not like a business transaction for me. I need the more emotional aspects and the trust/dependency. It's the only place in my life I've ever had that, apart from some romantic relationships where I was too protective of myself to allow it. So it's important to me to have that in therapy or I'd never have known what it's like, or that it's possible for me.

You've got me musing about this. I can do business-like myself, so I wouldn't seek that from someone else. My problem is that I can be much too business-like, so maybe that's why I do well with therapy that isn't like that.

I'm feeling much too business-like about not having had therapy today. I've hardly even thought about my "missed" session. It's clear to me that this is shutting down rather than coping magnificently. It's just weird. I've been journalling about it and thinking what my therapist would say. To accept it, I think. To let it be what it needs to be.

*sighs*
 
Wow, Hashi. I have never really thought of it that way. I have always remained in my safe place and kept my T at arms length. I avoid emotional outbursts and am often referred to as stoic. I don't feel stoic, I just feel 'as a matter of fact' about things because I haven't allowed it to be more. Yikes! You have made me think and quite frankly that is scary as hell! I may have to ponder my relationship or more so, the meaning of my therapy and what I expect to get out of it. I guess in some stretch, I am scared to death to be that vulnerable with anyone because it has never worked out to well for me.

How do you do that? How do you allow someone to venture into that part of your core? Now I guess I understand why you can't do an occasional email or random call to check in. That would be like having an affair with a married man and having him call on occasion when his wife is in the tub to check in and schedule the next rendezvous. Probably a bad comparison but you know what I mean.

Sending loads of strength your way especially now that I have had an epiphany about how difficult this is for you! Sorry I didn't get it before!
 
For me it is not a case of 'allowing her in' - people find their way in - it's like being the right shape.

I either attach or I don't, they get it, or they don't, my 4 yo comes out or she doesn't. I admire people who can actually control any of this!
 
For me it's very much a case of allowing. I'm all about control, usually far too much. I admire people who can be more open!

I'm not comfortable saying "allow her in". Definitely not to my core, but I think in my case not "in" at all. Allowing her to be in the same space is as far as it goes. Her reaching me feels more like her putting something in the space then me reaching out to that, and me putting something of myself in the space that she can reach out and pick up. I'm too protective of myself for anything else, but this for me is huge in terms of trust and openness.

What that means in practice is that I often take my time before reacting to something she says if it's significant. It's normal for me to wait until the next session and think/feel it out for a week before responding, and if it's big thing it might be after several weeks. Similarly for the things I talk about. I always decide in advance what topic it's going to be, sometimes I might have that planned for the next three sessions. I don't like having an unexpected topic come up, and if that happens I generally ask to talk about it the following week instead.

That might sound very controlling, which it is, but what it does is give me the containment and safety I need to be more open and honest when I do talk. It actually means I can let my guard down because there's less to guard against. I know there are unlikely to be a lot of surprises. The most destabilising things for me aren't the most difficult things, they're the most unexpected things. This way, I can prepare myself for emotional fallout and that allows me to take more risks in what I say and what I'm willing to hear.

Regarding how to get to that point, I remembered posting about it in a different thread so I searched for it. I don't know if this will link to the particular post I was thinking of, but the post is #34. The thread covered various aspects about therapy that might be relevant to what you asked, and there was some particular discussion about trust within it.
[DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/what-is-therapy-for.30639/page-2#post-500246[/DLMURL]

I have always remained in my safe place and kept my T at arms length.

Rumors, before your posts here I hadn't even identified that this is how I see opening up. It's actually the same way I see it when people send me good thoughts. I see them as being placed within my reach, not coming to me directly.

I don't think I'll ever be capable of anything more direct. I didn't develop emotional dependency on anyone as a child, not even at birth because I was isolated in intensive care for weeks, and not after that because of circumstances. I observed it in my siblings and saw how vulnerable it made them so I chose to avoid it consciously as well. It has been difficult for me to learn to trust and it's still very unsafe. I keep it almost literally at arm's length, and I need all the boundaries and safeguards of therapy, but then I can do it. I suppose this way, the arm's length is still there but I'm reaching across with my arm rather than pushing away with it.

I think this might be different from a lot of other people's way of approaching things. I'm at the extreme end of independence and control. I thought I'd say it in case anyone relates, because there are still attachment issues although I think of a different nature from those of people who generally fear abandonment. And it is actually relevant to the thread topic - honest! My fear of abandonment/loss is more to do with what I've invested in my therapist. Literally, the time, money, effort, trust and emotion that I've put into the process. Also that my belief in healing is to a large extent invested in her too. That dependency is a risk, and my current situation is one of the dangers. But if I hadn't taken that risk, I know I wouldn't be as far along in healing as I am now.

It has also been helpful to put into words this feeling that we're connecting in the space between us, rather than directly. Because I have a metaphysical outlook, and so does my therapist, it means we can still have some contact in that space even though we're not actually seeing each other. If I need to feel connected to her compassion, it's still there for me. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, I know I have some strange ways. but it's a good thing for me to think about right now.
 
We did manage to sort out the issue I was so angry about - it took about 30 emails to and fro, and her responses were carefully thought out and expressed a lot of caring and sensitivity. In the end she said: 'I can see why my statement must have felt so devastatingly misattuned'.

Pencil, only if you feel OK answering this, do you feel your anger about this is gone now?

I keep thinking about the unresolved issue with my therapist - we talked about it at my second last session, but I couldn't go fully into how I felt or I'd have been paying for another month of therapy in order to talk it all out.

I'm so angry and disappointed. I'm getting stuck in a loop of thinking she's not the right person to see, and no-one is, and I'm doomed.

I probably can't sort this out with her by email or any other way while on a break, but I'd like to be able to park it until I see her again, instead of ruminating and upsetting myself.

Do you feel like, having had the email discussions, you've moved on from that particular issue?
 
hi Hashi

Yes, I've moved on, BUT:

I think I moved on because I wanted to so badly - I wanted to be able to trust her and 'hold onto her' to a certain extent. When the sessions ended I felt that I had lost her twice: over the finances, but also emotionally because of the issue.

So, she apologized in the end, and re-framed the whole thing that had so upset me, for which I am grateful. However, there is the niggling worry about the fact that we had the issue in the first place.

I share with you the strong emotions regarding : What if she's not the right person, then who is, and .... And I think for that reason I also let go of the issue. Deep down I've always known that I'll never be able to go back (due to finances) and so I preferred to let the issue slide in order to be able to derive some measure of security from the fact that she was 'there' for me.

But the discussion resolved 95%. The 5% is irrelevant due to the fact that I'll probably never see her again.
 
However, there is the niggling worry about the fact that we had the issue in the first place.

Yes, there is.

I think if I do start seeing my therapist again in the future it's likely to be similar for me, probably 5% that can't be resolved. I'm going to have to make myself get past that. I can't afford (emotionally and in terms of healing) to do otherwise.

It's a relief to accept that, I mean to accept something and not keep worrying at it in my head. As far as a plan goes, it's to try to get back on my feet financially then try seeing her again at some point. Hopefully I can set it to one side and focus more on emotional skills and practical life now.

I'm sorry you feel you'll never be able to go back. I wish things were different for you.
 
I'm sorry you feel you'll never be able to go back. I wish things were different for you.
Thanks Hashi. Perhaps my financial situation will change enough and I will be able to go back. It's a catch-22 - therapy really destabilized me so much that I couldn't focus on work. I do freelance work and it requires total focus. So, perhaps ...

I think you are far more practical and level-headed about all of this than I am.
 
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