She Pushed Me

[BlackbirdSinging]

This past week my therapist pushed me. Not physically. But she pushed me to talk about an abuser who abused and conditioned me over a period of years. I can't remember how many. She wanted me to talk to him as if he was in the chair beside me. I told her I couldn't do it. I physically pulled back into my chair and turned away from the other chair. I couldn't look her in the eyes. I started to get tears in my eyes. She kept telling me "yes you can tell him.. tell him how you feel about him.. call him whatever name you want". I couldn't do it. I kept telling her I couldn't do it. She encouraged me to not be like a victim. I started to sob and eventually I started saying things like "I hate what he did to me".

It was a really hard session. I wasn't angry. I was scared. I was so scared. I shook and cried and kept my arms close to me. I stared at the floor and watched memories flashing in my head. Over and over different things he'd done. I felt like I wasn't in the room. I felt dizzy. My therapist told me I did a good job. That she knew it was hard but she had to push me.

That night I had a nightmare. I felt like I had them off and on. I remember parts of one though. I woke up feeling like I had been thinking all night. Since then my hypervigilance has been a 14 on a scale of 1-10. I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be with people. All of my senses are on high. I'm struggling to ground myself. I'm having such a hard time calming back down to my normal.

My questions are basically this.. is therapy always going to be like this when facing different traumatic experiences? This seems kind of basic but what is the point of pushing like that? I get it but I don't considering now I feel like I'm stuck on being triggered. What does this pushing and talking in that context achieve? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[franciemarnie]

I immediately feel protective of you when I read what you wrote. I can't say what all is going on with your therapy and your therapist's strategy and what your relationship is and if you trust her. I just don't like that you didn't want to do this exercise but she kept pushing it. As I say, I don't know how things are between you. Maybe I am interpreting incorrectly and projecting force where there was none.

It would bother me if I said, no, I don't want to do this and she kept pushing. It took me decades to respect my own boundaries so that would bother me if she didn't.

I personally never had a therapist have me do that thing of confronting the person like that in the office. But I know that is not an uncommon practice. I think it might be beneficial only if the client was ready.

But I am sorry you got triggered and the hypervigilance is at 14!!

 

[Deleted member 1860]

A lot of therapists believe that they've got to push you like this, but what good does it do if you are dissociated? I ask because in a dissociated state, it's safe to say you're NOT really processing much of anything. The emotional part of your brain is in high gear, running at 150% and you literally can't handle it so you start to dissociate. The rational thinking part of your brain is pretty much shut down. So what does this really accomplish?

It ticks me off to hear stories like this because I had therapist after therapist push me to talk about it and it put me in a dissociated state. Never before and never since have I had dissociation so bad! I finally found an alternate way to process my therapy that (to my complete and utter shock) didn't make me dissociate. Hurrah!

Oh, and in between all those dissociative episodes and finally finding a way to process my therapy, I was resolved to not talk about it. Why? I didn't want to run the risk of becoming worse off, waking up something inside of me that I would never be able to control. Yes, they SAY this doesn't happen, but I met someone who warned of not going that route as she regrets it as she was worse off afterward. Maybe she's in the vast minority, but at the same time, I couldn't risk it, didn't want to risk it.

In the end it's your decision, but I encourage you to at the very least challenge your therapists notion that she HAD to push you. Maybe her type of therapy isn't right for you?

I wish you the best.

 

[Leah123]

My questions are basically this.. is therapy always going to be like this when facing different traumatic experiences? This seems kind of basic but what is the point of pushing like that? I get it but I don't considering now I feel like I'm stuck on being triggered. What does this pushing and talking in that context achieve? Any input would be appreciated.

Therapy will not always be so traumatic when processing/facing different experiences. I've had sessions where I reacted the way you did. They took me quite a while to come down from, to come back to my normal. I feel I pushed too far some of those times. I completely agree with ScaredOfLonely that if the work is dissociating, it's not going to be very helpful. I do wonder, as Abstract did, if your therapist wasn't pushing too hard.

I feel sometimes like mine is SO ready for me to be angry, because she knows that is a healing place, to rebel against being violated, but it's not an easy place to get to. I've had to tell her, firmly, my own boundaries, tell her about the dissociation, and explain that I must work at my own pace. That doesn't mean she won't have the impulse to push, to want to get me to a place she thinks is helpful, but therapists ultimately need to partner with us, not lead us in our healing, in my opinion. I am so sorry you're struggling with the aftermath of that session. Do you feel comfortable sharing this, or writing a letter to your therapist to ask her for gentleness and to help you feel more centered and grounded now that you're feeling so hypervigilant and triggered?

I hope you take very gentle care of yourself. I empathize with you! Sigh, it's so hard sometimes.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

I immediately feel protective of you when I read what you wrote. I can't say what all is going on with your therapy and your therapist's strategy and what your relationship is and if you trust her.

Thank you Francie. That gives me some comfort. I do trust my therapist. About as much as I feel I can. Part of me wondered if she pushed me like that because my progress has been in slow baby steps. I'm not really sure. She wasn't aggressive in her pushing but the point was the same that I still felt that I couldn't do it and I definitely didn't want to. So it's a hard situation no matter how you look at it.

But I know that is not an uncommon practice. I think it might be beneficial only if the client was ready.

I agree with you. I don't know how much it achieved with me dissociated. It certainly got me triggered and has left me that way since Tuesday. Last night I had more long vivid detailed dreams. And one in particular was a violent nightmare. And another one was very upsetting.

My therapist likes analyzing my dreams so I'm sure she's going to have fun figuring out my dreams from this week. I think I might be a little more calm today but I still feel on edge. I really appreciate what you said. Thank you so much for your input.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

A lot of therapists believe that they've got to push you like this, but what good does it do if you are dissociated? I ask because in a dissociated state, it's safe to say you're NOT really processing much of anything. The emotional part of your brain is in high gear, running at 150% and you literally can't handle it so you start to dissociate. The rational thinking part of your brain is pretty much shut down. So what does this really accomplish?

Scared I agree with this so strongly. I feel like initially maybe it was a good idea to get me to breakthrough something. But once I started dissociating wasn't I just trying to protect myself and survive through something that was upsetting me? Was I really processing and breaking through anything if I was tuning out? I'm interested in seeing if I end up having some kind of major breakthrough this week. But based on how I've been feeling since Tuesday my guess is it would be a partial. But I guess that's better than none.

In the end it's your decision, but I encourage you to at the very least challenge your therapists notion that she HAD to push you. Maybe her type of therapy isn't right for you?

I wish you the best.

Thank you. Part of me thinks that she wanted to keep me from stagnating in my therapy. I don't really know. My head has just been swimming this week. I feel like I can't handle ANY stress. I do trust her as much as I'm able. And she wasn't directly aggressive in her speech but that didn't make me feel anymore willing to do it. She wants me to write a "scathing letter" to this particular abuser this week. One that won't be sent. I told her "that's IF I can find my anger at him". At this point I have a lot of emotions in regards to him but anger doesn't seem to be one of them yet. At least not very much anger. I suspect one day I might have outright rage for him though.

Normally her therapy is gentle and encouraging and validating and supportive. But I think being in therapy with her for 6 months now and not physically being able to take meds due to other health risks I wonder if she was trying to make some bigger thing in my healing happen. I'm not afraid to ask her about this when I see her on Tuesday. Thank you again for your input. I really appreciate what you've said.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

I hope you take very gentle care of yourself. I empathize with you! Sigh, it's so hard sometimes.

You're right. It's incredibly hard sometimes. Sometimes I say "the trauma was bad enough to go through but now to be haunted by it and then have to go through it again in therapy?". Right now I feel like I'm tormented and like I can't escape.

And I'm also a little frustrated because I was trying to communicate with someone about how hard it is to be pushed like that. Especially when I'm dissociating. And the person responded by telling me that maybe my therapist pushed me so hard because I'm closed off and I have my defenses up. I told this person that's called hypervigilance. They went on to talk about how one day she'll push me through my defenses and get me to crack and basically get to the other side of this. I said this is a different kind of pushing. And then I stopped trying to explain it to them because when people don't understand PTSD they just don't understand. And I don't always have the ability or patience to explain it. Thank you so much for what you said. I appreciate it.

 

[Leah123]

that's IF I can find my anger at him". At this point I have a lot of emotions in regards to him but anger doesn't seem to be one of them yet

I am in exactly this same place. And you know what, I honor it. I didn't get to deal with feeling hopeless, smothered, feeling like death when I was abused. Those are very hard feelings to cope with. And frankly, what I want out of therapy is for someone to hear me, help me, witness me and support me gently as I deal with that. I sense, deeply, that's where I must go before I get to anger. And that in the meantime, while I feel it in fits and starts, I am going to do myself a disservice if I try to force anger, manufacture anger, that I do not feel. Some argue that we should fake it until we make it, that we are angry at being abused, but.... I would like to let my feelings unfold at their own pace. I believe it is the *very* least I am due.

maybe my therapist pushed me so hard because I'm closed off and I have my defenses up.

Will you be offended if I say that was a stupid thing for the person to say? Since when did pushing someone who was already feeling vulnerable enough to be closed off and defensive ever help? That sounds and feels counterintuitive to me. I'd much rather have a *safe* space with an empathetic counselor to give me the room to feel my feelings, and probably get to that place of anger with gentle support than feel shoved into it. How is that helpful? And yeah, I do believe it's hard for non-sufferers often to appreciate the persistent nature of the symptoms, and how they have actually helped us, served us, in the past, surviving terrible things.

Normally her therapy is gentle and encouraging and validating and supportive.

P.S. My therapist is normally just like that too, and I've had a very hard time with her pushing me, maybe partly because I'm not used to it. I told her recently, about a few things she said that I found threatening, and I told her point blank, I didn't feel safe, not in blame, but because of my past. And you know what, she promised me she would be more mindful and respectful of my need for safety. She really came through for me, and I think it makes it *easier* for me to feel I can get to the anger, than harder, so.... just an optimistic thought about the therapeutic relationship.

 

[ninja]

BlackbirdRising,

I strongly believe that we can work through our trauma without our therapists overtly pushing us like that. "Pushing" reminds me of everything I was "pushed" to do, to go through, as a kid. So when I feel even an inkling of force, I run... and run far.

Maybe your T needs to be reminded that healing happens on your timeline (and in your own way), not hers?

:hug: if you'd like one. :)

 

[Resilientbibliophile]

Hello,

If it helps, know that your therapist is literally trained if not built to 'take it', to absorb the hitherto unexpressed anger and outrage that you might feel you are protecting her from and yet she is begging you to express within the safe circumstances of her office. Freud would speak with wonder of dynamic of transference whereby people would enact dramas as though they were shouting and screaming at an abuser, as though that abuser was the therapist himself. He viewed this as entirely intriguing and a very powerful tool to unearth essential tonal elements that clients might otherwise try hard to disguise. In short, they assume you'll come off of your foundation and scream and shout at them as though they were the direct party involved rather than a surrogate. It is expected, calculated, etc. - but know that it isn't some arbitrary test of your capacity for self-control, for other more fundamental things are at stake.

A therapist is well-trained to compassionately engage and empathize with you even as they intellectually detach from the reality of a dynamic intended to be directed towards someone plainly not present in the room, someone lost for time and space, skipping about in relation to the age at which something occurred, etc. Yes - you'll scare yourself at first and feel considerable guilt and embarrassment for the fear will be that matters might never get better; i.e. strained notes to self on the order of keep it down, dissociate, God - I can't lose control, for where will I be if I lose control?, etc.

Once the dam bursts, please know that said rupture can only release so much water before it empties and some hitherto unknown level of calm might be afforded - not total, but likely a great deal better than you've known. It's hard now - almost unbearably so, but there is process in play and it is important to respect the very real process; i.e. let it out as though your therapist was the surrogate the situation intends her to be. It's totally scary yes - but you need this, and in the care of a skilled specialist in a safe environment designed to both amplify memory, contain and effectively process such. Indeed, this is what therapy is about. Please be well...


M.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

your therapist is literally trained if not built to 'take it', to absorb

Considering this is not my first time in therapy and that I have family members who are therapists ..I know. I am indeed familiar.

unexpressed anger and outrage that you might feel you are protecting her from

As I stated in my original post I was not angry. I was scared. And I therefore had no feeling of needing to protect her from my anger. I signed up for therapy with her on my own accord and in doing so signed up for her methods of therapy. I also did so with the clear knowledge and from past experiences ..know that I would and at some point I will.. be angry and show it and share it to and with her. And who is to say that I have not done so already in previous sessions?

strained notes to self on the order of keep it down, dissociate, God - I can't lose control, for where will I be if I lose control?, etc.

Please do not presume to know what I will think about my own feelings as I am quite capable of communicating them at my own readiness.

but you need this, and in the care of a skilled specialist in a safe environment designed to both amplify memory, contain and effectively process such. Indeed, this is what therapy is about. Please be well...
M.

And since you don't know me or my history please do not tell me what I need. I'm very aware of what therapy is about. That has not been a question I have yet posed. I did however post questions in regards to improvements in hypervigilance. And while I appreciate your input I will thank you kindly for not condescending to me as you give it. I have PTSD not a reduced capacity to comprehend the complexities of therapy or what I need. Clearly I have mixed feelings about your response. Parts of it I appreciated while I did not inquire about a lesson in how therapy works.

 

[franciemarnie]

I love the incredible strength I am getting from reading your responses here.

l liked reading how the therapist dealt with the client in The Body Remembers. The author/therapist talked about how important it was not to do anything that felt unsafe to the client so that - if they could help it - - their talk wouldn't lead to disassociation etc. if at all possible. As soon as the client felt the faintest glimmerings of trigger or disassociation, the therapist and she would go back to talking about times when the client felt safe in her life. She would have her describe how it felt, what the place looked like, what it smelled like, etc.

When and if the patient was ready to go back to the subject, they would - but the patient was encouraged at all times to speak up when she felt the danger feeling coming and they would go back to the safe place.

I liked that therapist and her sensitivity to the nuances of feeling of the client who had spent years ignoring feelings and boundaries, not even being aware of them and then being ambushed with fight or flight and flashbacks, etc. having never seen them coming.

Sustained threat to safety destroyed my early years. It is important for me to find ways to feel safe whenever it is possible.

So identify with the proficient professional or care taking roles. Then when I'd be alone - arghhhh!