Mixed Messages

[Meadowsweet]

I am very confused at the moment and everything I'm being told seems to give mixed message that I just can't work out.

People shouldn't have to care about people who have been abused and it's wrong to ask them to - that's the message I get from here. But I'm reading a book of exercises that suggests writing a letter to my child self to tell her that people had a responsibility to care.

Another thing I read is that there it is a choice to get angry, and I look at how I have just allowed abuse to happen by freezing, and I've talked about how childish my emotions are when I run away like a complete wimp, and so to get angry might have stopped it. I'm angry with myself for never doing anything about it. But this thing I read seems to say that anger is wrong and you should choose not to feel angry.

I know I need to find my emotions about abuse, and they just aren't there. I read recently that when dealing with childhood abuse, the emotions need to come out, but peoples reactions to that happening is usually to try and help the person repress them again, which gets in the way of recovery. But to talk about it is wrong and shouldn't be done because it hurts other peoples feelings. But running away and isolating is wrong. It's even been described as abusive here.

It feels like I'm wrong for keeping emotions repressed and I'm wrong for having them. I have to accept that I have emotions, but there is a choice not to have them. If I do let them come, I shouldn't ask others to listen to me, but i am abusing others if I isolate.

I don't understand anything anymore. It just feels like people are just saying what they want and I can't trust any of it, because nobody agrees with what's right or wrong. It's just like the most dominant person gets to decide if I'm good or bad, right or wrong etc. That scares me and I'm feeling quite messed up.

 

[kahlan]

I'm sorry you're feeling this way. First i do want to say that anger isn't necessarily a bad thing but can be destructive depending on how it's expressed. Everyone gets angry. It's a normal emotion. Also I personally don't see isolating as abusive. Everyone needs to recharge and for a lot being alone is the best/safest/most comfortable way to accomplish this. I understand when my N. needs to isolate I do the same at times. All that is asked is a heads up that he/I need some alone time and if it's for a lengthy time an occasional check in to show we are ok. Taking care of yourself isn't abusive.

Society I do think has become more and more self-absorbed. Standard reply to "How are you?" Is "can't complain, even if I did no one would listen." Saying that, I will agree fewer people actually care about anyone else unless it benefits them. I do get it though, it's hard to figure out sometimes what the right thing to do is. Finding the right supportive people to surround yourself isn't easy bit they are out there, and they can accept you for who you are.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I haven't had a partner for 10 years and I haven't had friends for 3, so I've been isolated for a long time. The support I get is on the internet and from my therapist.

Because social closeness is quite a big issue for me, I look at the outside world and try to understand how it works, and if I can fit into it without finding abuse. And it all seems so complicated and often very negative. It makes me want to give up sometimes.

It is good that there are people like you about to give a bit of hope Kahlan, thank you for sharing about you and N.

 

[Flyaway]

Hi meadowsweet,

I'm feeling a bit like this as well. I think that advice on anger is relevant for different people. It sounds like in your case you definitely need to get it out! Better out than in. You didn't deserve whatever happened to make you feel this way to begin with, so you definitely should not have to hold on to it.

I've lived my life being constantly worried about people around me, not wanting to upset them- just incase they abused me. I am so sick of thinking about others all the time- I deserve to be heard and have my needs met dammit! ...you do too!!!

I've just made myself some brownies to cheer myself up a bit I'd send you some but I doubt you're anywhere near me. I'm stuck in Western Australia for now. I'll eat one for you!

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Hi,

I think maybe you should avoid the supporter forums for awhile? I know it gets to me, too.

I don't remember seeing anywhere that someone said people shouldn't care about those who have been abused. Of course that doesn't mean it hasn't been said, rather I mean that I don't see it as a common theme here on the forum.

Isolation isn't abusive per se. I isolate and withdraw, but when I do, I give warning to those I have plans with. (I'm not in a relationship so no worries on that front.) I think it is abusive emotionally when the isolation is frequent, with no warning (a simple "hey I need time alone" would suffice). It is just plain rude in my opinion to put someone else through that, in that they don't know if you're dead or alive, etc. (I think a lot of sufferers get into relationships they're not ready for----I mean they get into relationships and aren't getting help for their PTSD. As in the focus should be on getting better, not on starting a relationship.)

Some people can't handle the fact that I need solitary time to regroup. They can't see beyond their own selfish needs to realize that not everyone wants constant social interaction, and that's ok!

Ignore the posts that say "I'm used to being stuck up someone's arse 24/7 while in a relationship and can't handle a few days without contact" (yes, I've seen some to that effect). In my opinion, those people are too needy and it's not about the sufferer being abusive. It's about a mismatch----when one party needs constant validation and the other party needs a bit of space on a consistent basis, that doesn't make for a happy couple!

On to talking about abuse.... I've said not to do it *in detail* because it can be traumatic to the listener, even if they say they can handle it. People know I've been molested. What they don't know is how I was molested.

The other possibility is that you won't get any validation from those you tell. You may very well be met with a blank stare, and that can really hurt. I'm not saying "don't tell people" rather "be prepared to get a crappy response or no response at all". Telling is freeing. Once I disclosed the abuse, my recurring nightmares ended.

 

[DMerish]

Hi Meadowsweet :)

It sounds like you may be temporarily stuck in black and white thinking . . . Right/Wrong - Should/Shouldn't - Repress/Let It Rip -

Anger is an appropriate emotion, and expressing it appropriately at the right time with the right people can be healing as well as initiate change. Same goes for all emotions as well as having the sense that one needs to isolate, at times it's appropriate as a means of self-protection. And, at times it may be appropriate to repress or subjugate one's emotions.

I think it is vitally important to recognize that all of your emotions are valid, as well the confusion around what to do when you feel them. Emotions make up a large part of who we are.

Envision yourself as a vase - on the outside it's painted with your every day personality and your physical presence. This is what people see on the outside. Most people see only that, and they don't see (sometimes don't care) what is in your vase or the material that it was made from. The contents in the vase are comprised of several substances - some better than others. To maintain the integrity of your vase you'll only allow others that can respect your vase to handle it; you're not going to offer it to someone that might harm it and you'll want to keep it away from folks that might try to add toxic substances to it. As to the inner substances of your vase now, those substances that could eventually eat away the container, you'll want to release those substances in a manner where it will do the least harm, or no harm, to others. As the harmful substances inside the vase are removed, more helpful substances can be added - like self-love, self-compassion and forgiveness, and other substances that will help maintain the material that your vase is made from like healthy food, exercise, etc.

I'm not sure if my little analogy helped at all, but I hope so -

(((hugs)))
Drew -

 

[Flyaway]

I really love your analogy DMerish! Thanks for that- you helped me!

 

[kahlan]

Being alone for that long I can definitely see how putting yourself out there can seem so daunting. Forums like this are definitely a great thing to connect people from all over to let them know thet aren't alone in how they feel/live, even if it's. not a traditional face to face interaction.

Even if it's not your time yet to try getting back in the outside world know that there are hidden amongst the jerks and mean people some genuine good people out here still :)

 

[rightkindofme]

Meadowsweet, I feel very much the same way. Processing is bad. Not processing results in behaviors that are bad. It feels an awful lot like I was made "bad" a long time ago and there is no way out of being that now. I can't talk about anything or I will "traumatize people". I can be vague and euphemistic and not help me at all. The most important thing is that I not allow the toxic sludge inside of me to come into contact with anyone else.

I'm really tired of people saying, "Oh that's not true" but when I try to create safe space for processing I get punished over and over. I'm really tired of all the lying people do.

Vague and euphemistic doesn't help me heal. Saying "I was molested" means nothing. Because then people presume to say, "Oh I know exactly how you feel. The same thing happened to me." Then I find out that one time her dad touched her vulva through her pajamas and sheets and comforter... but my father held a gun to my head after raping me and asked me if I deserved to live. Sorry, no you don't know how I feel.

It isn't about the Oppression Olympics... it is about people being able to get the differing kinds of support they need. As long as "rape" means everything from a stranger beating the shit out of you and leaving you half unconscious to your husband doing something relatively gentle physically but emotionally scarring... These experiences have different levels of processing involved.

It isn't that I think there should be a Rape Category 1 and Rape Category 2 and Rape Category 3 because in that simplification we continue to lose the ability to treat people as individuals. Being able to narrow down the category a little isn't all that useful.

I don't think that trauma survivors should shout their stories from the tops of buildings.... but I am really over this "don't say any details" thing. (I'm not picking on anyone for having this opinion. I'm just angry about it in aggregate.)

I hear the "it is a choice to get angry" thing a lot too. At this stage of my life I am far more in touch with my anger. When I got really angry this weekend (a contractor is doing work for us and he stood me up TWICE IN ONE DAY. I was incandescent with rage.) my five year old helpfully talked me through it, "Even when you are angry it isn't ok to brake things. Even when you are angry it isn't ok to hit anyone or anything. Even though you are angry it isn't ok to damage your body. This feeling will pass."

It was kind of annoying yet really helpful at the same time. I do a lot of "coaching" on behavior and feelings. My friends tell me that my house feels like all-the-time-autism-therapy (which they know about because they have autism therapists in their home for 10+ hours a week) because of all the talking through I do. My autistic friends tell me that I get more autistic-acting by the year.

So my kids matter of factly narrate to me when I am jumping up and down and saying, "I am so mad."

I don't know what else to do. Sometimes I cry. I have patched all of the holes in our house and I have promised to not make another one. I have a punching/kicking bag. That is useful.

Last month I painted a mural in my neighborhood. Some of the old white guys made racist comments to me (I am white) while I was making it. Things like, "Don't put any brown people in the mural or they might think it is ok for them to be here." I shouted at them at the top of my lungs that any race that emigrates and commits genocide on the people they encounter have no f*cking right to talk about the right to be any where!" I don't feel guilty. We are still buddies and hang out. But they will probably never say that to me again.

I think that righteous anger has its place. I have very consciously worked on the fact that I have a lot of anger for very righteous causes. Never the less 99.99999% of people I will deal with from this day forward have *nothing to do* with why I am angry. I have gotten away from my abusers. If I'm still angry it is up to me to not make it the problem of the people I currently know. Which is hard.

Which feels like "they don't have to care about me." I get the impression that I have a different approach to life than most people here on the forum. It feels like people are afraid to trust so they hide and have no relationships. I hide in plain sight and have many many relationships. They are specifically limited.

I place relationships in boxes. "Acquaintances" don't get to know about my anxiety or my thoughts other than what I publicly write about anyway. They do not get to have anything "off script" and they get a very artificially happy and polite demeanor from me in public. No matter how I am feeling. I'm a very good actor. "Distant friends" are people I can say real things to but I only see them for a few hours a year. I cannot count on them for continual support but if I had a genuine emergency all of them are open to 2am phone calls and a very large chunk (I could name 30 people without trying to hard) would come and get me if I were in trouble. No matter how far they had to go. I have friends with resources. I have deliberately cultivated them.

I am kind of a pet for them. Oh that poor freak girl. I'm getting older so the allusion is less flattering. Luckily I'm doing pretty well at this stage of life so I no longer need their charity.

I have 2-4 close friends at any given point in time. My close friends always include my partner-of-the-moment (hopefully this one will last the rest of my life--we are married and all) one person I talk to daily (usually on the phone for at least half an hour) and maybe one or two people I consistently talk to weekly over a period of years.

Mostly my distant friends are people who read my blog and worry about me but don't actually talk to me much because they are busy for a variety of reasons. I like complicated people and those people often have a lot going on. They don't have a lot of space for someone like me who has a lot of needs. But they give what they can when they can. It is hard knowing that I go through life jumping from rock of security to rock of security. I can't stay with anyone too long.

My husband is the only person I actually depend on for support at this point and that is really hard in a lot of ways. I don't know that our relationship is healthy but we like it and neither of us see a way of changing it at this stage. It will change as the kids grow up. I don't know what it will change to being.

I did a tremendous amount of dating through Craigslist and OkCupid before settling down. That was pretty much how I met people and developed friendships. I find that people who are willing to advertise themselves on the internet are my kind of people. :) I'm not sure what that says about me.

But the guy I dated off-and-on starting from when I was 19 and we went to Australia together... he's "Uncle" to my kids. He comes over to dinner once a week because my children are probably the only chance he will have in this lifetime to have a relationship with children and he wants that like he wants water. So he comes over and hangs out with them.

Sometimes I read about tribal societies where women deliberately had lots of men they slept with so that all of the men felt the urge to protect her children. Sometimes I feel like I did that. But then I feel kind of weird about the fact that my kids aren't allowed to be alone with very many people because I don't trust anyone. I know how these people sometimes act in private. Heck no are they getting my kids alone.

So it is a double edged sword. And I talk to my children about body autonomy and privacy--a lot.

I'm sorry. I probably went way off topic. This spoke to me and I haven't been able to blog because I was dumb and I let myself muddy the acquaintance/friend boundary with someone and it is going badly. Boundaries exist for reasons. Sigh. I'm getting yelled at up one side and down the other about someone else's behavior and I am just... Can't handle this. People suck.

So I'm staying home and avoiding socializing for a while. Urgh. :-\

 

[Meadowsweet]

On to talking about abuse.... I've said not to do it *in detail* because it can be traumatic to the listener, even if they say they can handle it. People know I've been molested. What they don't know is how I was molested.

I don't want to do that. I certainly don't want to reveal details to anyone but my therapist. I just want to be accepted as me. The only people I've ever ever talked to about stuff is two people who knew me when I was last attacked and my therapist. that's three people in my whole life.

But part of what keeps me away from people is the fear of not being able to explain why I don't have friends, or being able to say I'm not feeling very comfortable with this, and not have them judge me because they don't understand why I'm not comfortable. i feel I can't socialise because of all the secrets I keep.

It sounds like you may be temporarily stuck in black and white thinking . . . Right/Wrong - Should/Shouldn't - Repress/Let It Rip -

I don't know how to be socially. So I'm looking for social rules that my logical mind can understand. It's not ideal, but at his stage, I need something solid to build upon, as I don't have normal social intuitiveness.

The analogy is good, thank you.

It feels an awful lot like I was made "bad" a long time ago and there is no way out of being that now.

Yes, I feel that way too.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

I lived in a log cabin for twenty five years with my family and then my husband got sick. I had to sell my home and move into a town where I did not know anyone.

I have been so isolated for the past three years, but since my husband died, I feel like I am rejoining the land of the living as I start to rebuild my new life alone.

It has been very hard for me. It has almost been four months since he died, and I have had death of illusions, new awareness,, and new perspectives. I have been coming to terms with a new reality and it has been very challenging for me.

I think anger means to address an issue. It means we have been hurt, wronged, whatever and we need to let it out and resolve something. I hope you understand what I mean.

I know it is not good to isolate and I tend to do this when I am not feeling good, and I am having bad days.

I wish you well in your struggles.

It takes along time to rebuild a healthier life and all of life is a practice.

I am glad you have your therapist and this group. It makes a huge difference for me.

Moving to a new place where I did not know anyone and being a full time caregiver, meant I had no life. I do not know how I survived it, but I think it is amazing to do things when I have no choice.

Healing, I think is a journey, it sure has been for me. But with time and hard work, it can change and get better.

I wish you well. I can so relate to the isolating thing. I have done that for so many years. But we need healthy people in our lives who are real and will not play games or hurt you.

You do not know what good lies ahead of you around the corner.

 

[mamachick]

Meadowsweet, your opinion is the only one that really counts. I think we all need those connections and that you will want and have them one day too. There is nothing wrong with what you are feeling. Your feelings are your own. There is nothing wrong with feeling anger. Sometimes I think others try to push us through the anger too quickly, before it is processed, and before we are able to forgive. But ultimately, we hopefully can forgive. Forgiving ourselves requires that we forgive others, but there is no time limit. If it takes 10 more years, that is our choice.

I am trying to work on forgiveness, on opening my heart, and have learned that my self esteem is diminished because I have not forgiven. I am trying to do it for me, but it does become confusing, and it feels like giving up the little control I have left. It feels like forgiving will make me more vulnerable to more abuse. Im learning that it wont.