Eliminating Exposure To Ptsd For Others' Sake?

[Tinyflame]

Outstanding! I am excited to read your understanding the baby steps.

"My own fault". This is the PTSD talking. So much of what we react to from past is not having the reinforcement that we are not guilty. We survive accepting that we somehow had asked for this past.

..You are not responsible for your sisters actions.. She must make the choice to save herself! Mother T.. would not have accepted your sisters actions either. :).

"Fault". Did you create anything by your actions in the past? Or have you reacted to situations to survive?

Dear Whitney, thank you for your vote of 'confidence'. I did forget that I am not 'supposed' to default to the word 'fault', that (that) is the ptsd talking. No, I haven't had reinforcement it wasn't my fault. I guess if anything it's (grief or less than strength) been called a 'fault'. I did do some things I am not proud of, (somewhat of an improvement because I began very ashamed of them), but I tried to make ammends for those. Much (interpersonally) that I would classify as selfish, or unaware of the impact on others (lots was self-harmful, and others unaware). The fault, or being to blame now, I guess I mean is my perception that how I feel, or where I am at, even in the 'Big Picture' of (all of) my life-choices, or my attitude, even my 'nature', is my 'fault'.

Thank you, it is difficult to watch someone you love harm themself. :( And it helps, re: Mother T. Not that I'm Mother T, to be clear, just that I feel she had a wisdom greater than sometimes people would think of, when they start with common sense. A deeper understanding of the roots of pain, (which sometimes conflict with a natural reaction to another's behaviour or choices).

Oh my, I really find it hard to conside this as progress. :(

((((((((((((((((Sweet sweet Whitney))))))))))))))), xoxox. :hug: :inlove:

 

[Tinyflame]

Trust, Very common and requires understanding and boundaries. When trust in the past is so violated and used against us we need to advance gradually.

Learning to trust ones self takes practice.

Thanks Whitney, yes some of it goes way back and is because of how I've thought of things and not realized (I am intentionally-despite myself- skipping the word "(my) fault" ). Complicated effects from what I thought was simple and that I had handled.

That is an interesting question. I guess I would say, just one I can think of off the top of my head, I think I can trust myself to not harm others, and do what is in their benefit and happiness (best as it would involve me). Or at least I would try my best to do so, I realize my intentions don't always result in what I'd hope. I guess barring causing instances of 'ptsd-related-grief-or-disappointment-causing-behaviours', is how to put it, but that would not be intentional. And I guess I can trust I respect others' choices or opinions or boundaries, I don't intentionally try to cause grief.

(But don't trust me with cookies, hee ;) :wideeyed: :joyful: ).

((((((((((((Dear Whitney , :hug: )

 

[Tinyflame]

You have such a good heart

Aw Dear Muse, what beautiful things to say.

Yes we are alike in that way, I think I understand what you mean as per others and loving others and motivation, and not in a co-dependent way, but in a natural, or true-to-(ourselves)-way.

You are a beautiful mom, wife, person!!! :inlove:

I understand entirely, the fear of trust, the fear of loss. I would have thought I'm past the 'loss' part, but probably haven't even started on that.

I chose to continue with relationships where the 'love' part could be in question; at least the actions were oftentimes not very loving. 'Love' to me is painful. I quickly-as-possible got away from and hugely discouraged men who acted in a loving way.

I loved family members, but due to drinking and such and seeing the Dr. Jeckyl-Mr Hyde reality (which I assume under the 'right' conditions I could display, too), trust had to go. I didn't imagine they were capable of such, it was a shocker and very painful.

I think it's wonderful to be a mom! My days of that are past, but it does mean something to imagine I could have been a 'normal' one. However, I am so glad for you, and for tose you love. I hope that you will not fear the loss but embrace (and enjoy) each day. And that you all have love, joy, health, peace and security, in good times and challenging ones (and that they are minimal and manageable :) ) . :) :inlove: :hug:

I do not have that confidence in myself, or perspective of myself, but I don't hope to meet anyone or want to. In fact, it's like bad luck the more you hope not to the more it occurs. :( [But I had to laugh, I can only imagine if anyone is waiting for me, some little cartoon version of some 'old guy' with a beardthe ground.. 'Father Time' or 'Methusela"-(?), :laugh: ]

Seriously though, this crossed my mind the other day, I cannot say verbally 'I love you",not to (any man ever), with difficulty to even family (I default to "me too", "same here" etc, if it comes up. I can write it, I 'force' myself to say it caring for others, but I think it goes back to the last time I said it was on my dad's death bed, far as 'men' go. Then again, I chose not-very-loving men, I guess maybe then I wouldn't feel badly not saying it. I know it sounds very cold or unloving. :( Actually, I'm not. I think it just is/ was as you said too traumatic to risk "risk".

Sweet Beautiful Muse, thank you, xox. :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

You say it's hard to think of "the future" and to have hope. That is so PTSD. We fight that, daily. Sometimes I need to be told I'm living "in" that hopeful future, right now! I get tired, and I sink. I don't even know I'm sinking in PTSD sometimes. My H. sees it and tells me before I even see it.

..however, small, and you haven't forgotten this love, this bond, this gift.

Thank you Sweet Muse. Yes best sometimes not to even think about it. I am glad it is 'normal' :rolleyes:

Yes you so deserve that Happy Ending, (and I love the fact the little one 'scrappy' :) :p :tup: :inlove: ).

I will try to imagine just that it can be a 'happy ending', too, whatever it may be.

Gentle hugs to you!!!! :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

Much as I've tried to guess where that came from, I recall my dad not thinking to say "I love you" on his deathbed-(talk)- I had to say it. He kind of brushed it off ("ya, I love you too"). I think at the moment (onwards) I felt 'love' (from a man) wasn't likely. For those later who seemed to 'love' others, I considered the fault must lay in me then, therefore.

Even the ('big') concept of 'God' as a father, I can't quite get that.

We had cancer in our family (all mostly early), so I don't think I'd figured I'd live this long, apart from learning that is a typical feeling that comes with ptsd. I didn't want to leave a spouse with kids, kids going through losing a parent, or God-forbid passing it to a child. I thought maybe it was (much) preferable for several reasons that my genes stopped with me.

 

[Tinyflame]

..I am so in love with them all. This love is worth living for, no matter what else I have in terms of emotional baggage. I get a day to enjoy as much as I can with these three BELOVED ones. ..That is all I basically live for.

Dear Muse, I wasn't going to say it, but you see, I don't have such a reason(s) to live for, (though I am glad you do, :hug: ). I can arbitrarly take a time- say the past year-and I cannot recall one person or one reason that made it worthwhile for me or them that I existed.

And perhaps selfishly, I'm tired of 'giving', for example at work, not that I'm against it, in one way it's my nature, but in another way it doesn't give me a sense of anything.

Love to you Muse, xox.

 

[Powder]

Junebug,

You have been in my heart these last few days. I will never forget that when I first had the bad, bad flashback, you were the only one here to respond and validate what I was going through, there for me when I needed you. It was like you threw me a life saver as I was drowning. I didn't even tell my H. about the flashback or the content, what it revealed, for three days.

In that sense, you sort of walk on water to me. I admit it's my own perception of you. But I am also hearing you loud and clear that you are pushing away love like one pushes away good food, preferring to remain somewhat hungry. Whatever age, I would "mother you" and try to temp you to eat for your own good. Strengthened by the food, I would hope you would soon see that it's better to not be hungry.

Let a little of my love in. See how you earned it, and how you are worthy to receive it. That's all I demand of you for now. :) Silence the negative voices in your mind. See your good side (feed it!). Let it grow fat and lazy!

Love, Muse XOXO

 

[Powder]

And thank you for thinking of me as a good mom/wife/person. :inlove: I don't think we are very different. I am very lucky that my husband arrived when he did. I am also glad I prayed/believed I would find him over a year before I did.

You may be preparing yourself now by starting this thread. I don't mean to sound "positive" in thinking, only making a logical observation. Whatever is happening for you or being shaken loose, I am here and interested in what you have to say.

Muse

 

[Tinyflame]

Aw dear Muse, you are so very very kind. Thank you :inlove: :hug: .

I have read your posts, more than once. Several self-deprecating funny jokes about myself I could make (I am tempted to make) to deflect what you say, but the real truth is, I think you are right. I feel vulnerable, or small, or sad maybe (?), to admit the truth of it, but it is the truth.

You know, I always just figured, if I could die one day by 'natural causes', no matter what they were, 'that' would be the accomplishment. But I think what you've said- likely 'that' perhaps is what one day (I might be able to) learn. If I could manage to accomplish that, that actually would be perhaps a Large accomplishment. :)

I guess we all do have different things to learn, face, address. It's funny, but I do know what you've said is 'correct', hard and as uncomfortable as it is to admit. And really 'uncomfortable'isn't even the word, just all I can come up with. (Thank God for anonymity, lol). Though this is where I'd hide under a rock! Lol. :hug:

And it's really weird too, I feel like I don't have a 'mother', and though I was so lucky with the mom I had, it's a 'strange' kind of feeling like I don't or didn't have one. I don't get it at all, especially at my age!!! :confused: I don't understand at all what it means, or rather 'why', except as a wild guess that the feeling if one did not have one as a child, is the same kind of feeling that runs deep within me now. Strange and silly. :confused: Crazy. :rolleyes:

And oh-hey! By all means 'demand away' :laugh: hee. :hug: ((((((((((((((Sweet Muse))))))))

I am just glad I could have said anything that ever helped Muse. I can't remember when, but all I can assure you is that whatever I said was the truth.

..a good mom/wife/person. :inlove: I don't think we are very different. I am very lucky that my husband arrived when he did. I am also glad I prayed/believed I would find him over a year before I did.

Similarly, I was not satisfied (it's not accurate enough) to say a 'good' mom/ wife/ person- no Muse you are extraordinary. :) Kind, gentle, wise, and so loving. I (TRULY :) ) believe your H and family are just as Blessed to have YOU. :inlove: :) (And I can expound on it further when my brain comes back, lol. :hug: ) Perhaps it was your H's prayers brought YOU to him. :)

Hee, sweet Muse, and I wanted to apologize for sounding negative (when I wrote it). :rolleyes: Positive is just fine. :)

(((((((((((((Dear Kind Heart, Sweet Sweet Muse))))))))))), xox.

 

[Tinyflame]

You know Muse, I saw something in a book by chance today ('book bingo'- flip the page, see where you land), I can't explain it that well or as succinctly or clearly, but to (try to) paraphrase it was C.S Lewis talking about grief, he said it was a process that, because things resurfaced and resurfaced again, could feel like one was travelling or digging their way through a circular trench, but that it was not so. It was going forward or a journey, and though the landscape might at first seem like exactly the same, the process and our eyes were not. That's a lot like ptsd, I think.

Big :hug: 's, xox.

 

[Powder]

You're so right. And grief and PTSD seem to have many things in common. Neither holds a practical purpose, but both seem like things that show what it means to be human or part of the human experience here. There will always be suffering here. That much seems certain. It is not crazy to want to leave a place of suffering. Most people think about that from time to time. And there is a sense of our smallness in the grand scheme here, that we cannot stop the suffering, that threatens our very spiritual survival. This idea is the great enemy. To lift oneself up out of suffering, like treading water, is often a profound spiritual practice for me, an act of supreme faith in being alive on this planet and playing my part heroically as possible.

Sometimes I think that earth is a place that is very barbaric in its very energy of life. As James Hillman says "it's all about survival" not just making meaning anymore. I have meditated or mused on this sentence of his, absent of explanation, and find it to be very profound. Survival is the "theme" of our solar system; who is free from it? We haven't graduated to the point where we can improve much upon that. I hope that we can begin to think of future humans and other life here more and more, and of our own basic needs less and less.

As "survivors" many of us experience a deep sense of shame and guilt and failure (when we are truly being honest) but that set of emotions belongs to the whole planet, not just the individual. Aren't we all just fighting to stay alive here? When we as a collective, awaken to the reality of this, I hope that a shift in consciousness occurs in line with what so many enlightened leaders have asked for.

Chief Seattle is quoted as saying that while people should pay more attention to the animals, as whatever happens to them, also happens to us (or something like that). This is kind of what I mean; that we have to look beyond our own species' concerns and see the bigger picture of life here. Watching nature and the fight to survive play out, as a planet, do we not all share in the trauma of survival?

These are just the weird things my brain comes up with. :) Rather than feel I am the odd ball, maybe we who have past dealings with trauma see the world as it really is without the rose coloured glasses.

But my traumatized father who traumatized me...all he taught me was "Life isn't fair." It was his mantra, and he made sure I learned it by being abused by him. However, I disagree with all of his point. He made that saying true for me and my family. We have some power, to make life be good for someone else. So my mantra is "Life is an opportunity to love, to right some wrongs, and to believe in and search for a better way for all."

I actually look to science and a respect for indigenous cultures and survivors, like us, for our salvation as a planet, a consciousness of clear sight for what is and a desire to improve that for all, little by little. I hope. I love. That is my answer to the suffering. My response. I will die someday. What do I do that matters?

I like Mother Teresa's "...we do small things with great love." I know that's a responsible attitude. I'd like to see more of a collective effort that does great things with great love. Maybe that is not going to happen as I want it to Here. But I believe it is happening somehow, somewhere, and I will become a part of that, when my body dies. :)

Junebug, sometimes the good gets slapped down bad here. I don't claim this is a good world. But I've seen good in it. I see it in you. We need good to hold our hand as we stand back up and see our own goodness fully, once again. You've done that for me. I am here for you, and I just hope I can return the favor somehow and bless you back.

You got it. He WAS praying for me, too. :) We both found that out later. And neither of us is orthodox-like, but we have a strong faith in something good (God) despite everything. I have often felt the bitter silence of God, and as though there is nothing there, and alone. But then I see it was I who turned away from where God truly lies, in my own heart and in the love of others.

Junebug, I have a lot of pain in me, too. I don't really even know what to do about it or with it. Sometimes I feel that part of me just died long ago along the way and I'm not really alive, not really. But love is alive around me, and I have to answer the call. Then, I see that I have both life and death in me. Somehow, I'm still here.

Hang on, and hold on to whatever you can and believe in whatever good you can find in you. Feed only that light, imagine it so bright it's blinding and beautiful, and don't let it go. Then, you will see you are as I see you.

Love, Muse

 

[Whitneys story]

Oh Dear Junebug, you may have all of my cookies. You have earned a case of them. In more ways than one. :rolleyes: @Muse I adore your Aug 20 event's. I just love when things come out to us from the universe.

I was missing a piece of jewelry the other day. Without knowing Junebug said a prayer for lost things to return. I found it an hour later. My first husband died when our son was 2 1/2 yr old. I have been saving his ring for my son when he gets married. My son proposed at the same time the jewelry was found. Phew I was sweating not finding it.

Let alone what I would have done had it not turned up. I so agree it is not coincidence. Thank you, thank you; Junebug! :D :inlove: :wacky: Whitney