Isolating - who do you find most difficult to let close?

[Abstract]

Its very helpful to hear everyones thoughts and experiences. Realising how much this stuff affects me. Yes it isn't flashbacks but it actually both makes me hate myself intensely and makes me powerless and trapped so still has a significant impact on my life. I also think I have been reading on the supporters boards too much and need to stop. It just makes me hate myself more and that is actually not productive as I just get worse not better as a result.

too tiring and demanding

I am starting to realise how much emotional energy it takes to manage interactions with others. Especially as I always try to be so careful to not let my "stuff" spill out and touch them. When I have other difficulties happening the strain on me is enormous. And if I am not doing well then trying to hide that takes even more out of me. Lots of astute observations about all that from people here.

prevents me from responding to basic texts and calls as well, is the fear of opening up a situation I won't be able to contain, or otherwise destabilising my world at a time when I simply cannot bear any more instability

And this made many little bells go off. As others have said it is a big part of the problem. One of the main issues. If I interact then I don't know where that will lead. Will they want to meet up. Will they feel closer and therefore even more scary. Will they have said something or respond to something in a way that sets me off. There are times when almost anything at all will do so and the closer I am to the person the more likely it is to happen. It always feels a little like opening pandoras box and knowing before hand there are likely to be lots of nasties waiting there.

I won't be able to manage the dynamic sufficiently

And this is part of it.

particularly to people who might be getting close or who seem to care.

I am glad I am not the only one Mayday but sorry this is the case for you too. It really bothers me that that is this is how I respond. Seems so fundamentally wrong in an all encompassing sort of way.

struggle with this so much in my life.

I am sorry you do. I do too. It is a constant battle and forms a backdrop to my life of shame and powerlessness.

more with women in this regard than men

This is insightful. Yes part of it must be that. I was not sure why this was the case for me and had wondered if part of it was because of past interactions with women such as mothers etc. That the problematic men who I have come across have been more straight forward. That a lot of the women have seemed to be caring or used mindgames to make me feel responsible whilst other agendas were happening.

That may or may not be the case and be part of it but actually I think what you and others describe here is probably most of what it is about. In fact, men just don't text or contact one as much anyway I find. Most men. I hate generalisations but they will have to do. They are also generally less emotionally demanding and are likely to be communicating on a more a superficial level. I don't mean that in a negative way. So yes to all that you said Mayday and all the other observations that others made. In fact, I seem to have chosen women friends who are far from touchy feely too.

both for myself and the other person

Yes because the impact on me but also that they are often also more sensitize and there is more of an impact on them.

my symptoms do.

I love this and thank you for sharing. I like what your therapist said too. It has been astonishing to come to this point in my life and realise or consider that this may not just be "me" and may be because of something separate. With recent self awareness and having had moments when things have been better I have realised how completely different I am when these things do not rear up. Thats what I hit against after working on recovery of such things as eating disorders and developing a "self" etc. All of these things were fixed and then.... there I was faced with many realisations that were totally unexpected. Like I went on that entire journey to get to the start position. :wacky:

my symptoms and not my thoughts.

Thank you! They are NOT thoughts!

. I lost most of my friends when I stopped answering emails and phone calls

Me too. And I think I almost hoped that would happen with the ones who didn't go so that they would stop being affected by me like this. Despite wanting and needing new and different types of friends I have chosen not to take steps to get them as I don't feel its fair.

intrusion

Sadly any contact often feels like a violation of my boundaries. Almost an assault. I know how illogical that is but sadly that doesn't change it.

t's a strange confusing phenomenon and I can understand why it's hard for most people to understand.

It is terribly strange! And I can totally see why people would just think that it is because one doesn't care about the person or is self involved. I guess it is self involved in a sense as one is drowning on ones symptoms. Not that that excuses the affect on others of course.

Thanks for saying you dwell on my spot of Alien Land MD. I can just about cope if there are a few others who frequent the same facinity as me. If I am out there on my own on planet Zog it feels intolerable. :alien: I seem to have a ZOg filter where I am determined for that to be the case.

 

[therapybankrupt]

My list is getting shorter and shorter because of the feeling of violation. I avoid returning calls. i am afraid I will show my issues. I really have to get prepared to do things. The isolation has increased since I have been doing EMDR. I have given myself permission to care for myself. If I do not feel like getting up or doing things I don't. I think this will be hard to stop when this is over.

I was so motivate in life before to please everyone but myself and now I say screw it. I mostly due what I want with the exception of a few family members and three life time friends. Then I put on my happy person and pretend my life is all good and I usually give more than I should. Some times I even fall for the persona. Not a bad feeling and it often leads to a small amount of motivation and enjoyment. It can be exhausting to keep it up for more than a few days anymore. I usually crash for up to a week afterwards. I most often enjoy being alone until I get lonely. If that makes sense.

 

[Abstract]

I will add that at times the need for human contact and connection is like a physical pain. And can happen at the same time as the rest. I used to think that I did not need anyone but I now think that was self protection.

 

[maddog]

Abstract, your last comment, about the simultaneous physical pain of isolation and the inability to connect, is one of the most disturbing and confusing aspects of this phenomena for me. It is absolutely the case that the more I feel unable, and even sometimes fiercely unwilling, to reach out to the world, the more agonisingly starved I feel of human contact and affection. I've struggled for a long time, sometimes quite frantically, to understand this, because it feels like perhaps my greatest manifestation of chronic unconscious emotional self harm.

And at the end of it all, I have concluded... nothing at all. Maybe my starvation for human affection and belonging is so chronic and intense that meagre, inadequate offerings of humanity only seem to inflame the need more, kind of the way your metabolism kicks in when you eat something small and you're suddenly hungrier than when you were starving yourself.

Or maybe it's just a symptom of the restless irrational unpredictability and push-pull of my entire relationship with the human race. If I can't understand it, then presumably nobody else can be expected to, or should have to.

Again, I resonate with everyone's comments on this topic so much. As I've said before, communicating with the world is the absolute first thing to slide off my capability list when I'm struggling, and sadly, I've been struggling, to one degree or other, for so long now that minimal to non-existent communication with the majority of people I know has become absolutely the norm. And yes, while some relationships endure regardless, at least for a while and at least in some form, most will and do eventually fade away or become distant and meaningless. It's both sad and inevitable, and yes, sometimes, a bloody relief!

Sorry Abstract, you certainly aren't alone on that planet of yours, I and a few others are here whether you like it or not. Don't worry though, I won't call or text you, and if I do, you have my permission to ignore me!

Maddog

 

[Badger]

Wow, what an interesting thread. Thanks for pointing this one out to me, Abstract. It is diffucult to be a supporter, because even after you take your ego out of it and say "This has nothing to do with me." There's still the question of how to interact. My sufferer texted me with an obnoxious message the other day because he was sick, saying basically "I don't need your shit on top of everything else." (That would be because I texted him asking what was wrong with him.) I let him sit on that one overnight and the next morning I told him it was no way to talk to someone you care about and he said "Since you seem to know how to do that why dont you tell me how to talk to someone you care about?" so then I told him I loved him and when he is in pain or miserable, it makes me want to hold him until he feels better.

Haven't heard from him since...that was 3 days ago. I'm one of those touchy feely people you all would hate ;) and I can't really change who I am on that fundamental core level, nor do I really want to. I can change my behavior, but avoiding triggering-it's like spelunking in the dark when the floor of the cave is randomly covered with razorblades...
I'm also incredibly strong though. I know not to take any crap that I don't deserve, and I'm pretty good at telling the difference.
I would however, like to hear a few happy tales of how people got over their isolation, I feel like I need that right now. Anybody know any?

 

[Abstract]

I hesitated posting the link for you as thought it may be a bit depressing!

You actually don't sound needy in a way that is problematic and I am glad you don't plan to change. I think a fair amount of supporters that come on here do have some serious codendency issues and then I think both them and the partner need to change.

You do sound strong and I think if you are able to stay your own person and keep your self worth as well as calling him on any unfair behaviour of his then you should be able to manage it. There are more than a few examples of healthy relationships on the boards. Not without their challenges but healthy nonetheless. I know that for me someone being strong in themselves is an enormous help.

Very unfair of him to displace his discomfort with himself onto you.

I suspect isolation with PTSD probably falls into 3 categories. Depression related - improved by improvement in depression and contact/activity; related to overstimulation and symptoms - improved by treating the underlying trauma and reducing PTSD symptoms; and attachment related issues - improved very slowly by long term therapy and exposure to a healthy relationship. I believe their treatment difficulty increases in the same order that they are listed .

I do think a couple could potentially come up with a language and plan to manage this better and lesson the fallout with both having as much of their needs met as possible. If that is acceptable for both that is.

Good luck is all I can say! I am nice with it but I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with me.

but avoiding triggering-it's like spelunking in the dark when the floor of the cave is randomly covered with razorblades...

Very well described! Feels like that from the inside too. Remember though that you are not responsible for any inadvertent triggering. It is those who harmed him that are. It is never OK for him to blame you. Explain and find a way around it yes but not blame.

Avoiding triggers? Good luck to us all!

 

[Badger]

Abstract says- "I suspect isolation with PTSD probably falls into 3 categories. Depression related - improved by improvement in depression and contact/activity; related to overstimulation and symptoms - improved by treating the underlying trauma and reducing PTSD symptoms; and attachment related issues - improved very slowly by long term therapy and exposure to a healthy relationship. I believe their treatment difficulty increases in the same order that they are listed"

Awesome- He has all 3 I think. Not so much with the attachment issues. I mean, I think he was cuddled enough as a baby and stuff.

No wonder you dont want to be around people, its an aversion to the emotional pain of being triggered. You can avoid it when you are alone. Winter is like that, I think. He likes his life to have a rigid routine, because he can reduce the triggering to a minimum. Problem being, hes not alone. Hes got sole custody of his 5 year old daughter. He has to have interaction with others, because you can't live with a kid in a vacuum.

His daughter is my childrens friend and I'm fond of her. I want him out there and not isolating for her sake too. Like I said, I'm half friend, half lover and I take the friend part more seriously.

 

[Badger]

Its funny, though. I think he does that stuff to try and put me at a distance, and the attempt is halfhearted at best. I feel wierdly secure about the whole thing. My therapist says it's not good for me to be with someone with intimacy issues though, as my ex (not PTSD) has them really badly. Winter's come and go though. And when I'm with him, NOONE on the face of the planet can make me laugh as hard as Winter. And when we are actually face to face we are pretty good with each other.

He was comparing this stuff he had to take before an endoscopy to whale ejaculate (he used a more commonplace term) and we got into this debate over how many gallons of this stuff whales produce when they have orgasms. And wether or not the sperm would be so big you could see them swimming in there. It was absolutely crazy and I was laughing so hard I literally couldn't breathe.