Isolating - who do you find most difficult to let close?

[Abstract]

like I'm overstimulated when I feel like I need to isolate.

Pencil is right and this is very well described. To me it often feelings like I am balancing on a tightrope in a storm and ducking things coming at me from every direction; and there is bottomless chasm underneath. So someone trying to hug me or speak to me is the last straw and intensifies the feeling.

a stroke and a heart attack all at once.

Yes.

Other times when it comes to not being able to answer emails texts and phone calls it feels more like instant fear and shutting down that I don't seem to be able to stop. Like someone both switched on the fear button and switched off my off button.

 

[FaithJL]

Other times when it comes to not being able to answer emails texts and phone calls it feels more like instant fear and shutting down that I don't seem to be able to stop. Like someone both switched on the fear button and switched off my off button.

Abstract,
Could you please explain what you mean? I'm trying to understand the mindset of someone with PTSD when he/ she doesn't answer texts or phone calls. But then denies that he's ignoring the texts or calls. Thanks.

 

[dnp]

I don't allow anyone to get close to me. The main reason is that I had an experience so horrific that I can't tell anyone. If someone asks me a seemingly innocuous question like do I want kids, I can't tell them the truth that I can't possibly have kids because of the horror I went through, and all I feel or think in my life is horror. It just became tiring making up lies all the time that were socially proper.

Sometimes I think about telling people the truth but I can't tell them about the horror and drag them into my own private hell. I can't. If I avoid people then I also avoid having to answer questions about myself. The way I see it I am doing them a favor, I am saving them from knowing the hell that I live every day of my life.

The other reason is I feel I don't need anyone. My parents were so toxic that I learned at a very young age not to need love. They equated love with fear and terror and physical pain. I learned to cut people off who hurt me. When I was a child I tried to form emotional bonds with my parents and I got pain and fear and rejection. Eventually I said, screw it.

Instead what I feel I have to offer is compassion and empathy. I do care about people who are suffering, I just don't want to form a personal connection with them, instead I would want to find solutions to their problems in a rational way.

I'm starting to learn that when I cut people off it hurts them, because before I thought I was sparing them from the horror of my life. I lost most of my friends when I stopped answering emails and phone calls. I was living in a hell that I wanted none of them to know about, but they were offended and thought I was rejecting them. I didn't know how to tell them.

 

[maddog]

Gosh, I could "like" everything in this thread a hundred times, even the things that seem contradictory. That really struck me actually, the fact that at different times, everything here resonates with me, even the polar opposite things. For example, sometimes I attribute my isolating behaviour to fearand can feel quite literally terrified of the presence of others, both physically and in terms of the intrusion into my personal emotional space that I perceive from others, even when their behaviour is in no way intrusive.

And yet sometimes it feels like an overwhelm of exhaustion, or a sense of defeated apathy and ambivalence. I just feel as though relationships are too tiring and demanding and I almost just couldn't be bothered.

Very often, it is a sort of sensory overload or overstimulation that sparks that frantic overwhelmed need to escape. People are just too loud, too close, too intense, crowding my head with stimulation i can't filter or manage and which can give me what I loosely term a psychological/social migraine.

And I so deeply resonate with that distantly whispering logic. Sometimes I even resent this whispering voice, as though relationships become just another means through which I have to live the war between my logical mind and my feeling self, and it just sux... I hate it... and want it to be gone.

And I loved the analogy of the tide - I rush in and I rush out. I think I do this too, occasionally will temporarily latch into a relationship quite intensely because it will somehow spark a deeply validating and comforting sense of warmth and connection. Sadly, this is almost always when I feel as though I am positively contributing to the other person's world, and for a time that connection can feel powerful. And yet suddenly, sometimes sparked by a minor interpersonal sticking point, or sometimes for absolutely no reason, the tide will rush out and the warmth will be replaced by a miserable sense of social inadequacy, or just more of that ambivalent exhaustion. Whichever way, I withdraw, and don't even know why, and even if I am obliged somehow to persist with the relationship, it will just feel like a limping obligation and something that brings me no real positivity at all.

I could write forever about relationships, isolating, withdrawal, abandonment, fear, etc, and I still wouldn't understand.

Maddog

 

[Abstract]

Hi Faith,

I am happy to attempt to. Maybe it will help me too.

But then denies that he's ignoring the texts or calls.

Just to keep this in context though this is not something I would do. I am very careful to take responsibility and make sure others don't blame themselves in any way I can. Denying it is happening would make someone feel very confused as you are denying their reality. Its a little like gaslighting in some respects. Keep in mind that different people will have different motivations. Thats what I starting to think anyway.

Could you please explain what you mean?

Shall try to explain more fully how it is for me. So this is specifically to do with not being able to answer texts or contact. I am starting to think that something "sets me off" to start. That can either be something like a flashback or a situation etc that seems to push certain buttons. Still don't fully understand what those buttons are.

I seem to then go into a "mode" in a sense where contact from anyone that I care about bring on instant intense fear. These modes can last a long time and vary slightly in intensity during that time period. So if I get an email from a friend at times I literally go into a freeze at worst or at best its like I flinch. Logically I appreciate the concept of that person etc but feeling wise it is very different.

At worst it is any human contact at all but the closer the person the more intense it is. Mostly though people I am not close to do not affect me like this.

I will try to answer and at least say that something is going on for me at present but its like my brain wont let me. I think about it all the time and almost obsess about it. Thinking of how horrible it is not to be acknowledged or responded to. But any time I try my mind or body just freezes up. I now try not to judge myself as harshly and that actually seems to help it be shorter. But I am ashamed to say it has taken as long as 3 or 4 months for me to respond to someone. After multiple texts and phone calls etc from them.

When I am in a good phase such as I presently am then there is always a little twinge of fear and I do have to take myself in hand to answer but I can do it without too much backlash.

There are also times when I am just not functional. My reality feels so distorted that I really don't have the capacity to sit and think, "have I answered A's text or contacted them". Its like I am barely coping and thinking of the world at all is just something that doesn't happen.

Maybe think of the re experiencing aspect of PTSD. If someone was attacking you and you were trying to deal with that it would be pretty hard to mid attack sit and think of who you have been in contact with etc.


I do suspect though that some people may loose trust in people because of how they are feeling internally and therefore go into a phase of not caring and pushing others away. That when they are like that they do not care about others as they are in a self defence state. I do go into a "I can't trust" state but am able to realise that on some level and I don't blame others for my feelings. I think many people are still in a place where they cant accept responsibility and need to place the blame for how they feel on someone else.

Or if they are feeling consumed by rage they may be doing all to push others away to protect them. The same may go for extreme self hatred or shame. That they think they are not worthy of a relationship and therefore do all to get the person to give up on them.

I hope that is not too confusing. I am still trying to understand it and get it organised in my mind.

I'm trying to understand the mindset of someone with PTSD when he/ she doesn't answer texts or phone calls.

I don't know this for sure but I am starting to suspect that it not only varies from person to person but even varies for each person. It does for me now that I am thinking about it more. Part of the reason for this thread is to look at this question.

Remember too that they are plenty of people without PTSD who don't answer texts etc at times or are unreliable. Just because of their personality or how they are feeling about the relationship. And having PTSD would not stop that from being a possibility.

 

[maddog]

In addition to what Abstract said, all of which is relevant to me at certain times, I think that part of the fear that often prevents me from responding to basic texts and calls as well, is the fear of opening up a situation I won't be able to contain, or otherwise destabilising my world at a time when I simply cannot bear any more instability. I am afraid of what to say at such times, and of how it will be interpreted or acted upon. For instance, if I try to explain how I'm doing honestly, given that I'm usually not doing at all well at such times, I am afraid that the person will think I'm being negative or morbid and will respond critically, or alternatively that they may attempt to intervene and impose some sort of intervention on me that I don't want and can't handle. Or I just feel guilty that I might worry them or cause them some anguish, or just a sense of failure that my reality has to be so negative.

I am afraid they might want to catch up with me and that I won't be able to and will have to say no and feel guilty or lie and make up a prior commitment. Sometimes I'm even afraid I'll try to say I'm struggling and they won't respond and I'll feel abandoned and worthless. Sometimes I feel resentful, such as if the person only contacts me rarely and then expects me to respond immediately.

Mostly I just feel afraid that I won't be able to manage the dynamic sufficiently, even the most basic and detached dynamic of a text message. It's all irrational in hindsight but very real at the time.

And then there are just the times that Abstract mentioned that I'm just not able to do much of anything, and when finding the energy and words to respond is too much. Those are the scary dark depression times when even getting out of bed is too hard sometimes.

It's a strange confusing phenomenon and I can understand why it's hard for most people to understand. But for those of us who struggle with it, it is real, and it really is ten times more about me than it is about the other person.

Maddog

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

I think that part of the fear that often prevents me from responding to basic texts and calls as well, is the fear of opening up a situation I won't be able to contain

I can identify and relate to this in such a huge way. There are people I love to talk to and text and email with but if I'm having a day where my symptoms are really giving me a hard time when I see a message from them I get even more anxious. Because I can already tell where my symptoms are going to take my thoughts. And I know how hard it's going to be for me to not read into everything they say or take everything they say personally. It's so frustrating because I love talking to them. And those days ruin my ability to enjoy a basic conversation. It makes me SO mad at myself.

such as if the person only contacts me rarely and then expects me to respond immediately.

I do the same thing with certain people. Or I feel like they only called to talk about themselves and not to even listen to or ask about me. I know that's not actually the case though. I just interpret it that way. Or rather my symptoms do.

 

[Abstract]

all of which is relevant to me at certain times

Thank you so much for saying that MD. I have more I want to say and will come back with to do so. I have been feeling very exposed and having dreams that represent that. I think I go into a default mode of I am :alien: and no one feels the same way and filter everything through it. Both you and Blackbird bring up interesting and relevant points that have made me think.

 

[Mayday]

I could "like" everything in this thread a hundred times, even the things that seem contradictory.

I feel the same. Isolating is something I do a lot, and particularly to people who might be getting close or who seem to care.

I am afraid they might want to catch up with me and that I won't be able to and will have to say no and feel guilty or lie and make up a prior commitment

This is a big reason why I won't respond to contact.

Not really able to formulate any useful contribution to this thread at the moment, but struggle with this so much in my life. Abstract, you said an interesting thing, which was that you struggled more with women in this regard than men. I am similar, I wonder if that's just because women tend to try to make emotional contact more so than men, so they are more likely to set off my "intruder alert" in terms of someone trying to get close. Just thinking out loud there...

 

[maddog]

Abstract, gosh, if you're an alien, then there's plenty of us here on this foreign planet! I almost always find your posts disconcertingly accurate and insightful and rarely have anything to say other than "gosh, me too, how did you know!"

Blackbird, I like the distinction you made between what you think and what your symptoms think and do. I have to be careful to note this distinction to myself too, when I am in a place to have that level of insight, because the two sets of thoughts, feelings and reactions can be very different. And I don't intend that distinction to excuse or absolve me of responsibility for my thoughts and behaviour by blaming the PTSD or its symptoms, but rather to just be aware that often the things I think are derived from the insecurities and instinctual reactions brought on by the PTSD and not by the rational knowledge I have about the nature of the relationship or the person in question.

Sadly, it's often not until afterwards, in the crystal clear light of hindsight, that I get around to making this distinction.

And yes, incidentally, it is women with whom I struggle most too. I think it's true that women tend to make more emotional-type demands of us and to hence cause me to respond in a more emotion-driven manner, or to be more conscious and anxious about the emotional impacts of our interactions, both for myself and the other person. Men are, typically and with some exceptions of course, just more straightforward, direct and uncomplicated in terms of saying exactly what they mean, interpreting responses literally and not overthinking things. For me, that actually makes my male relationships easier and less threatening most of the time, though it does also tend to keep men at a greater emotional distance from me, which is actually a relief in a lot of instances!!

Maddog

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

Blackbird, I like the distinction you made between what you think and what your symptoms think and do. I have to be careful to note this distinction to myself too, when I am in a place to have that level of insight, because the two sets of thoughts, feelings and reactions can be very different. And I don't intend that distinction to excuse or absolve me of responsibility for my thoughts and behaviour by blaming the PTSD or its symptoms, but rather to just be aware that often the things I think are derived from the insecurities and instinctual reactions brought on by the PTSD and not by the rational knowledge I have about the nature of the relationship or the person in question.

Sadly, it's often not until afterwards, in the crystal clear light of hindsight, that I get around to making this distinction.

It's not something I do easily. I do the same things you do realizing later. My distinction comes from my therapist who when I say "my symptoms" she corrects me and says "the symptoms". She says she doesn't want me to own my symptoms too much. So when I'm able and I catch myself I make the distinction in my words even if my head doesn't quite get it. There is a big part of me that feels like my symptoms are mine. I just understand when I'm able that it's my symptoms and not my thoughts. But it's so hard to catch. And sometimes even though I catch it I still can't make it stop. I think partly it's because after 3 decades this is pretty much all I know.

 

[ericaboo]

I found this so relevant, I decided to create a poll about isolation.

[DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/who-do-you-let-close.34395/[/DLMURL]

Check it out...