If You Didn't Have A Chance To Build A Self Before Complex Trauma

[The Albatross]

Trial and error Ms. Spock... by trial and error. I have only a little bit of before trauma... with many gaps. I, quite frankly know very little about myself because my circumstances have dictated that I do the most basic things to provide for myself. I'm in a bit of a quandary right now about how to proceed with recovery in fact, because I want/need to continue on the quest... but am not at all sure how to proceed.

It may be a lifelong pursuit... or it may be like sitting in front of a safe and dialing in combinations until the door opens. All I know is I keep trying. By experimentation, I can keep what works and eliminate/rule out what doesn't. That's all I got gal.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Sorry for getting all philosophical as I hate it when threads go that way, but that's where my mind is right now.

Sometimes I wonder if all my worrying about not having a "self" is a construct of the world of psychiatry as I was introduced to this concept while in the trauma unit and it's worried me ever since.

Then I think, how do normal people FEEL about the concept of "self"? Honestly, we're all so individual that I'll never know this one. I may be able to understand others THOUGHTS on the "self", but never their FEELINGS.

In my moments of clarity I know who I am and I know what I think and feel. This is when I know my "self". And then the PTSD monster comes along with his nasty obsessive thoughts and I seem to lose sight of what really is----what I really think, how I really feel. If I keep this in mind, I can drive a wedge between the PTSD self and my real self. It helps to keep things in perspective.

 

[Abstract]

The people who know me think of me as someone with a very distinct presence. I have a lot of self-worth issues though and I don't see it very well.

I have thought more recently that despite certain things aspects of the true me were visible to those around me but that I couldn't feel it. I had no sense of it and there was no feeling of solidity. I often still can't.

It all felt false or un-anchored so it didn't feel like me.

But when I managed to do work on this things changed a fair amount. I had much more internal stability. So sometimes I suspect I don't look that different on the outside but I feel different on the inside. Especially when my internal motivations are totally different.

The best I can describe it is that I felt that experiences and anything good fell through me before. I didn't think of myself as a person. I wasn't a person in any real sense. I felt like a thing. I could not hold onto anything good that I did or said or was as it fell through me. That's why I feel I was born a few years ago.

So @rightkindofme, what I am trying to say is there is probably a whole lot more of you already there than you are aware of. You just need to find it properly so that you can hold onto it.

 

[Pietro]

The idea of going back to a time before any experience. That is not how the world works. For anyone. Ever. Experiences are part of our life story and as much as we want to magic them away that is never ever going to happen.

I agree with this. Really, part of recovery is integrating the lost parts of yourself -- including those that involved trauma. The brain doesn't erase things. Memory is never erased or destroyed, unless by some physical cause. You wouldn't be who you are if you lost some of your memory, or if you removed any of your experiences, even the bad ones.

If you've ever seen the movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I think this might be a very good example of what Abstract was trying to explain. What do you think, Abstract?

 

[Pietro]

@Ms Spock , I agree with others who've said that this is a great question. Usually, I can write a short novel with my opinions, but, for this question, sadly, I don't have anything to really say. In short, I have the same question, myself. So, I think I will sit-back and simply watch the responses on this thread, and maybe learn something (actually, already have from what's been posted here).

 

[ms spock]

I have had quite a reaction to this thread. I feel like people are saying I am dumb and don't understand that people grow and change over time. And that no one is exactly their pre PTSD self, even if their trauma happens in their 20s and 30s.

Of course no one is in the slightest way saying this to me and it is my own stuff and reaction to my own stuff.

So if I am not as tactful or diplomatic please let me know and cut me a little slack as this is a can of worms indeed.

Of course people change and grow over time, but if your trauma takes place in your mid twenties or thirties or even when you are 15 then you have a whole lot of stuff to draw on including relationships, friends, schooling, jobs, networks, ability to be present in the world, hobbies, likes and dislikes, routines, exercise, family, eating habits, managing money skills, etc etc that you don't have if your traumas start when you are a small child. I kind of thought that this would go without saying.

Just because you live through a trauma/s doesn't automatically mean you will get PTSD either. There will be changes in that person to adjust to the ways in which they coped with the event.

I have added to the original post in hopes of making what I am asking clearer.

 

[ms spock]

I agree that some people visualise a complete return to their "before trauma" and that's unrealistic because we're always changing through experience of all kinds.

Of course people change and grow over time, but if your trauma takes place in your mid twenties then you have a whole lot of stuff to draw on say rather than someone whose sexual abuse, physical abuse, mother handing you over for abuse, can be marked by living at with grandparents house at age 1 or 2. It is a really different thing.

Of course having a trauma that causes PTSD changes you and you would have changed anyway growing older and wiser anyway but that is not what I am talking about. That is a little bit too simplistic to what I am trying to talk about but maybe I am not expressing myself well enough.

Most people grow and change as people over their lifetimes.

Many people experience traumas and traumatic life events and don't develop PTSD either. Just because you live through a trauma doesn't automatically mean you will get PTSD. Of course there will be changes in that person to adjust to the ways in which they coped with the event.

I also agree that we can know who we are without being able to look back at a self before trauma.

I don't know if I can buy this because everyone I have ever really talked about it to - do have some sense of a self that was nurtured and/or looked after even if their trauma started very young. So they had some stuff to draw on. Having one half decent parent or one half decent adult can make all the difference in this scenario.

I don't have a "before trauma" but I relate to the idea in terms of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) because I do have a "before OCD". It's very helpful to know from experience that I have a non-OCD reality, rather than just trying to imagine one. That doesn't mean I'll be exactly the same person as before, because I won't. Only that I remember being a person without OCD and that helps me to look ahead to once again being a person without OCD (in the sense of no longer being dominated by it).

I am not meaning to be simplistic to say people can return to be the person before something happened like having OCD, but importantly you have a view and a sense of self and some continuity to draw upon.

If I'd had OCD since birth then it would be harder, although I could and would still recover.

You often have many insightful things to say Hashi so I hope you don't mind me asking but how would you be able to recover if you had it from birth? Would you even realise that it is a problem? How if you have no experience of not having OCD would you create that space within yourself.

In terms of developing a self "before trauma" I think that must start us out with a clearer picture of who we are. Or maybe not so much a clearer picture as a less muddied one. I feel that, as someone who doesn't have a sense of self before trauma, I have to find my way through additional complication, doubt and confusion about my identity. If I hadn't been traumatised until I was 20 or 30, I think I would have a better sense of self and my own personality from the start of this journey.

That is what I am trying to get out. How do you find your way through the complication, doubt and confusion about your identity when you have such a muddied sense of who you are?

 

[ms spock]

I spent all my life trying to gain acceptance from my mother, so who I am today is an overachiever that did everything for the wrong reason.I will never get the love and acceptance I wanted/needed. Now, I'm in the same boat as you. I spent my entire life being whom I thought would get my mother to love me, rather than who I really am

So you have some stuff to build on or reject as the case may be Ghostybear73. I am sorry for your loss of the hope about your mother. That is hard.

 

[ms spock]

Ms Spock, I cannot say that childhood sexual abuse etc is my story. I don't remember any early trauma although I did have many indications of being traumatised or at least distressed from a young age and certainly never developed a self. I am not assuming any trauma pre 5 as I don't know of any. Arg.

Sexual abuse isn't the only type of trauma a child can sustain, as you well know Abstract, (I never ignore your answers. I appreciate your input.) The physical violence was a problem in my family as well. The lack of nurturing, abandonment and neglect are other features which are worthy of mentioning.

The first time I feel like I started developing a self and finding a me was about 5 or so years ago. Before that I had no self.

That brings me hope. I imagine that was hard work.

I consciously decided I was going to try to do something about it. At the time I was battling a serious eating disorder and was attempting to find some sense of stability somewhere.

Sounds like you found what you were looking for?

I did some NLP exercises which were good. I am suspicious of NLP in general as it is so often used to manipulate but some of the techniques are powerful.

There were various visualisations that encouraged insight into how I felt or thought about things. These were done in a group setting and with music which was very powerful. Another exercise was about my values. In the wider sense. What I truly value and what isn't important to me.

So how did you do this? How long did it take you to do this?

I also started writing in my diary every day and connected to what happened to me in the day and how I felt emotionally in and about each situation. I did it for many many years. Hours of it every day. Eventually it became more and more automatic. It may sound strange but I also had a makeover. One where there was a personality questionnaire. Looking behind the trauma reactions for who I really was and how that would be expressed.

Sounds like intense work.

The other things I have found key when it comes to a self are:
emotion regulation
knowledge of likes and dislikes
assertiveness (assertiveness is actually about boundaries and one needs to know where one is to have a boundary).
self care (it again reinforces a sense of being a person).
reminding myself continuously to to be authentic. Checking in with my authenticity barometer. That doesn't mean I have to tell anyone anything that I don't want to but rather that I feel I am doing the right things for the right reasons - for me.
actively embracing my shadow side and dismantling perfectionism

Sounds like a fair bit you are doing.

Let me know if you want to know more about any of these things.

I would like to know more about
emotion regulation
knowledge of likes and dislikes
assertiveness
self care particularly
how you are authentic
dismantling perfection

I have a long way to go. It is mostly trauma related stuff that knocks it out of me now and confuses me as well as me often having two or even three very different simultaneous opinions or agendas going on and tearing me in pieces. But the progress I have made has changed my life and made the trauma stuff much more manageable.

Sounds good.

I don't see it as being about going back and rather look at as me always being there inside me. That it is about finding me and allowing that authenticity to come through. My experiences and everything is part of that but I want to allow my true self to be expressed.

So not wanting to be the one asking all the dumb questions but how do you do that?

I will edit and add things if I think of any more.

Thank you.

 

[ms spock]

I have no pre-trauma time. The abuse started when I was in diapers and I potty trained at 14 months.

I was actually writing this morning about how I don't have much of a self. I feel like a support unit for other people.

I paint. I write. I exist loudly in the world in whatever broken form I have. The people who know me think of me as someone with a very distinct presence. I have a lot of self-worth issues though and I don't see it very well.

So as someone with a very distinct presence - how can you start to see yourself with compassion and value that other people obviously have of you?

 

[ms spock]

You are a self!!! You're shaped by difficult events as well as others. We are all shaped by our histories, and our reaction to trauma has positive and negative aspects:

That is a point of view worth considering. Thank you.

 

[Ghostybear73]

If you have an opportunity, pick up the book "Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Coleman. He writes about this topic and has great insight on the questions you have mentioned in this post.