Abuse From A Friend With Ptsd

[Iditarod]

Really? And if there was a history of being treated like crap, and then abuse that causes you suffering, you'd put up with it? She doesn't have to worry about how I feel, and honestly, now that I'm not there to serve her whims, I'm not so sure she will at all. And that's ok, because I set the boundaries.

I did mention it was not, in my opinion, a lecture. It was an explanation and a decision. If I felt I could wait, I would have.

You know, I quit my last job because I was lied to by a supervisor. It was a very small and unimportant lie, but it made me feel like I was imploding. Have any of you ever experienced that? It was a small lie, but it came on top of other weird treatment like her wanting to teach me how to use my subconscious mind to take an instant inventory of a large showroom. This is similar to that situation.

@katiekat: Talking about it here helps me to emotionally process it.

So seriously, have any of you ever felt like you were imploding because somebody did something abusive to you?

 

[Justmehere]

Her behavior is mean and I would say borders on abusive to anyone, regardless if you had PTSD or not. Without PTSD, her behavior would be mean and hurtful. With PTSD, yeah, it can make it even more hurtful and mean what she is doing.

There a lot of reasons why she is falling apart - the death of her significant other, the 'complications' that come with it being due to suicide (I have lost someone close to me due to suicide), family visiting (that can be stressful for most people under good circumstances), whatever she is dealing with regarding this other woman she doesn't want to come to the memorial, therapy (which can help and also be stressful too)... there are lots of huge reasons why she is falling apart and struggling. That doesn't make it ok for her to be hurtful and mean.

What I think is really great about what you did is that you realized you were over your limit and your held a boundary to not allow more hurtful behavior into your life. I think most people, PTSD or not, want our friends to stick with us in our times of need. Or at least to not have the worst times in our lives be the times our friends leave. I'm sure you can understand that. But, I don't think it would have been good for you to stay in the friendship right now either.

There is this idea in lifeguard and first aid training, to "never have two victims." The idea is this: that you should never put yourself in unnesseary danger to rescue someone else. Like if someone if drowning, you shouldn't jump in the water without a bouy or a life raft yourself because what could end up happening is that you start drowning too (like if there is a rip current or something pulling the person under) because then not only does the orginial person who was drowning not get helped, but now you are drowning and two people need to be rescued. There is also the reality that drowing people panic, and sometimes will try to pull a lifeguard so hard, the lifeguard is actually at risk for being pulled underwater and drowning too - and that is why lifeguards always must have a floation device with them when they jump in to save a drowning person.

This situation with your friend sounds reminds me of that kind of situation. It sounds like she is drowning and lashing out at everyone (even by wanting to lash out at that other woman) to try to pull herself out of her pain that she is drowning in. The best person to help her is someone with a metaphorical buoy - someone like a therapist or someone who isn't triggered by people passing away or etc. it sounds like she is trying to pull you down and you recognize that you are over your limits with her right now - and if you stay in the water with her, you are going to get overwhelmed and drown too.

Because of that, I think it was really healthy for you to back out and get out of the water of being in relationship with her right now. You are not the right person to help her and be friends with her right now. And that's ok.

Maybe she will be someone who chronically lashes out at people, maybe not. I have myself lashed out at people when struggling with my PTSD stuff. (I have changed a lot, and still have a lot to work on.) It never once helped me when they just excused my behavior because I had PTSD. It did help a lot when friends were able to stay, but with very strong boundaries. Most people without PTSD can't do that. And it's ok. IMHO, the safest people in life are the people who know their limits and own them.

From perspective of the sake of your friend, I think I would hope maybe if she ever apologizes for her behavior, I hope you might be willing to take in that apology and figure out if being friends is good... but right now it sounds like she is no where near that.

I also would say that it would have been much better to just tell her that you are over your limit and can't be in relationship right now, because you are getting triggered. She probably would have been able to hear you a lot better. Going back over a history of problems or even talking about her behavior that is a problem right now - this is just not the time. She is not going to hear it. She is DROWNING in grief. I know you want her to hear you... but right now is not the time to have tried to communicate all of that.

These are just my thoughts... for whatever it is worth... which is not much! I'm so sorry she is being this way, and I'm so sorry you are losing a friend.

 

[Iditarod]

PS: That supervisor was not the one that gave me PTSD, that was the job before that.

 

[digger]

Really?

Yes really. You asked for opinions, this is mine.

did I do the right thing?

No. I don't think you did. I think you did an unbelievably selfish and inconsiderate thing and that this speaks to me a lot more about what you are like as a friend than she is.

if there was a history of being treated like crap, and then abuse that causes you suffering, you'd put up with it?

When she's a week into just losing a partner to suicide? Damn right I'd put up and shut up for now. I wouldn't think now was a good time to bring it up with her. I really can't comprehend that you can't see a problem with doing this to her at this time. I genuinely read your first post in total disbelief. Sorry.

 

[Justmehere]

In regards to quitting a job about a lie, it can seem to people without PTSD like a small thing to quit over... but what is key is that you felt like you would implode about it. That can be a PTSD thing, and imploding would not have been good. But quitting, that to me doesn't seem so much like a sign of a problem with the supervisor but that it is perhaps hard for your to commit to relationships and stick with them when people screw up? That can happen with PTSD. Small and bg screw ups can trigger us in big ways. I wonder instead of quitting relationships, maybe working on the PTSD might help you not feel so bad when they are jerks - because everyone screws up at times...

Yeah, I do feel like imploding at times when triggered. It is those times that I try to not make long term decisions about the relationship as a whole because otherwise my PTSD would be making the decisions, rather than all of me... does that make sense? I try to take a break and get a little space until I an be a little more objective about it. Sometimes I will still cut off the relationship, sometimes I won't - I will see it differently. It changes more and more for me the more I work on the trauma behind my PTSD.

There are times when I have had to quit a relationship over small things because I would have imploded (which would have hurt me) or exploded and been a jerk like your friend. My PTSD was so severe in those times, that the healthiest thing I could to was quit the relationship. It wasn't necessarily the best thing because I abandoned people. It's hard to live with now. It did drive me to work on the PTSD and how to be healthier in relationships and how to handle the feeling of imploding or exploding better. It is something I am still working on...

PTSD can make it hard to figure out the difference between someone just being a normal human being who screws up at times and someone who is dangerous and a perpetrator.

It is good you are listening to yourself and recognizing your limits before you go over them, and I am just trying to propose that there are other ways to cope with what people do than by quitting the relationship for good. Just an idea. I may be hugely off track, you can take it or leave it.

 

[digger]

That supervisor was not the one that gave me PTSD, that was the job before that.

I'm also a bit confused now. I looked back through your threads. I am really sorry that you experienced workplace bullying. Bullying sucks wherever it is. I guess I'm struggling a bit to understand how that gave you PTSD though and how it relates to this?

Is this about you having PTSD and being affected by her, or about you thinking your friend has PTSD and that being responsible for her behaviour?

Sorry if I'm completely missing the point, this thread has really rattled me and I'm just trying to see where you're coming from.

 

[Justmehere]

@digger
I think some people come from this kind of perspective. I don't necessarily agree or not, it is my guess that people who go through this are naturally sensitive to feeling pushed or bullied again, maybe like Iditarod with her friend. It can be hard as a survivor of events where a literal gun was to my head... to understand how non- life threatening workplace bullying can lead to the same symptoms, but I can see it happening. That being said, life threatening events have a different impact on nervous systems than non-life threatening - but lots of things cause stress. Enough stress over enough time that someone couldn't escape... yeah, I could see that I could be hypervigalent in future circumstances that feel similar...

from http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/ptsd.htm:
"PTSD, Complex PTSD and bullying
It's widely accepted that PTSD can result from a single, major, life-threatening event, as defined in DSM-IV. Now there is growing awareness that PTSD can also result from an accumulation of many small, individually non-life-threatening incidents... It seems that Complex PTSD can potentially arise from any prolonged period of negative stress in which certain factors are present, which may include any of captivity, lack of means of escape, entrapment, repeated violation of boundaries, betrayal, rejection, bewilderment, confusion, and - crucially - lack of control, loss of control and disempowerment. It is the overwhelming nature of the events and the inability (helplessness, lack of knowledge, lack of support etc) of the person trying to deal with those events that leads to the development of Complex PTSD. Situations which might give rise to Complex PTSD include bullying, harassment, abuse, domestic violence, stalking, long-term caring for a disabled relative, unresolved grief, exam stress over a period of years, mounting debt, contact experience, etc. Those working in regular traumatic situations, eg the emergency services, are also prone to developing Complex PTSD."

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I hope it turns out okay for both of you.

 

[digger]

Yes, sorry, I'm not dismissing the impact bullying can have on people.

 

[Iditarod]

Digger1, I have to say I'm shocked that you're a VIP premium member, and you don't know about bullying and PTSD.

Is this about you having PTSD and being affected by her, or about you thinking your friend has PTSD and that being responsible for her behaviour?

It's about both.

Ayesha, thank you.

 

[digger]

Being a VIP premium member doesn't mean I know any more or any less than anyone else. I'm not sure where the VIP comes from. Something to do with number of posts I guess. The premium member is just from choosing to pay towards the site, it doesn't mean any more than that. Apologies for my ignorance re. bullying - that post was badly worded on my part. I was simply trying to see from your viewpoint.

 

[Justmehere]

@Iditarod All of us have unique experiences, things we don't understand, myself included... Sometimes not understanding deserves compassion and information. No one here is an expert on everything about PTSD. We are mostly a group of fellow survivors.