'too Traumatized' For Cbt - Anyone Else Relate?

[NovemberStar]

That is what my new psychiatrist told me - and instead of it being a negative thing, I feel such RELIEF!.

Why? Because for the many years I have struggled with PTSD (on and off -had a 10 plus year period without it altogether until a new trauma bought it all back) it has always been suggested to try challenging my thoughts / fears etc. I've posted on here before, how I have never ever been able to tolerate doing ANYTHING like that - even the words 'mindfulness' or 'grounding' trigger me into being bombarded with flashbacks and panic.

No one has ever been able to tell me why this is. I've struggled with feeling like a 'freak' or definitely feeling I'm weak, a failure, pathetic, as I can't tolerate anything like that even being suggested, let alone to TRY it. I can't do it when alone, but being with another person, no matter who much I trust them, it always ends up with me being severely triggered.

Then, the new psychiatrist I saw (second time Friday) said she wouldn't want me to do any CBT etc because she believes I am just still too traumatized for it. She said, 'later down the track' I could consider it, but it would have to be with someone other than my T who I see for trauma therapy.

Has anyone else been told this? Found it helpful? Cos for me, as I said - I feel such RELIEF - as it makes so much sense to me. And at the same time, doesn't rule it out as being unhelpful for me 'forever' - just not helpful for me right now.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Maybe ACT (Acceptance & Commitment Therapy) is more up your alley.

 

[NovemberStar]

Maybe ACT (Acceptance & Commitment Therapy) is more up your alley.

I had to google that to see what it was - the answer would be NO - it also mindfulness - which even the word being said out loud to me triggers flashback bombardment.

Yes, as a child, my mother did use 'relaxation' techniques on me - my sister and I were 'hyperactive' and we went to see someone and with out mother there, we had to lie down and do a relaxation tape (picture lying on the sand, it's warm and you're body is feeling very relaxed … etc), and when my mother tired it at home I was anything BUt relaxed (she was my abuser) - I haven't been able to link my trauma to the relaxation thing at all, but it is early days I suppose… My T believes it's because I was living in a almost permanent state of 'hyper vigilance' as a child, and any time I 'relaxed' I felt incredibly unsafe (due to the very unpredictable violence from my mother) - but so far, it's what the psychiatrist said that makes the most sense to me.

I have tried and tried to do those things, but I just cannot tolerate it, and if anything, my fear / aversion has only become worse. As i said, even the word 'mindfulness' triggers intense fear and panic in me.

 

[Echo]

@NovemberStar - I have been told the same and like you, it was a great relief. I know I need to work via my body, to release some of the massive amounts of trapped trauma energy bit-by-tiny-bit.

I now work with a trauma psychotherapist who specialises in sensorimotor therapy and may one day do EMDR with me. I've been seeing her since September and all she has been doing is gently stabilising me and helping me to find ways to be safe in various aspects of my life.

Do you know Peter Levine's books (Waking the Tiger)? That is similar to her approach with which she has great success.

Being challenged or sitting down with mindfulness exercises are triggering for me, too. I think it has something to do with no-one else seeing the danger and being subject to endless attempts to tell me my truth was mistaken, stupid, made-up, attention-seeking, etc.

The gentle approach of my therapist works really well for me. I hope you find someone to suit you.

 

[NovemberStar]

@NovemberStar - I have been told the same and like you, it was a great relief. I know I need to work via my body, to release some of the massive amounts of trapped trauma energy bit-by-tiny-bit.

I now work with a trauma psychotherapist who specialises in sensorimotor therapy and may one day do EMDR with me. I've been seeing her since September and all she has been doing is gently stabilising me and helping me to find ways to be safe in various aspects of my life.

Do you know Peter Levine's books (Waking the Tiger)? That is similar to her approach with which she has great success.

Being challenged or sitting down with mindfulness exercises are triggering for me, too. I think it has something to do with no-one else seeing the danger and being subject to endless attempts to tell me my truth was mistaken, stupid, made-up, attention-seeking, etc.

The gentle approach of my therapist works really well for me. I hope you find someone to suit you.

I'm not familiar with that book but I will look it up, thank you for sharing it.

Yes, my T is also trained in EMDR - I was able to make not quite normal eye contact with her the first two times we met… but after that - I can't even LOOK at her shoes, let alone her face or pen or anything like that - it is also tho triggering and I feel so panicked and very dissociated. I have a huge fear of dissociating to the point I'm no longer aware of anything - it frustrates me a lot, because logically i KNOW my T would never ever 'hurt me' - yet deep down, my unconscious mind cannot trust even her. I know that is why I can't do any of those exercises with anyone - even her, and she is the MOST trusted T i have ever had. I'm so incredibly grateful I found her. They say 'when the student is ready, the teacher will appear' - and I think it's a lot like that. SHe is the right person for me at the right time. I'm even talking (a little) about transference stuff with her - something I have absolutely gone out of my way to avoid at all costs in the 20 years of therapy i've had. Again, too threatening for the little me inside.

Slowly, I am building up some tolerance of the PTSD symptoms - in the years gone by, I would immediately self harm, get drunk, overdose, use my eating disorder to cope - the longest I could tolerate any of the PTSD symptoms would be an hour MAX. Now, I can 'tolerate' more - I still revert to my eating disorder to 'cope', but I have not self harmed in two years, and have not O/D'd in close to 15.

 

[NovemberStar]

Ps _ Echo - do you mind me asking - was it childhood abuse trauma your PTSD comes from? I am really starting o believe that being young and facing a trauma, kinda freezes the brain at that age, in the traumatized part anyway. For me, I can almost feel a distinct separation between me the adult, and the traumatized part of me being very much like that of a 9 or 10 year old… although a traumatized brain at any age might feel just as 'youn'g and confused.. ...I don't know.

 

[Echo]

Hi @NovemberStar - I have to go out now, so I'll have to be brief, but yes, I had a very traumatising childhood. Difficult birth: forceps, mother unconscious, was separated from her for some days before meeting her for first time. No bonding as a result. Then I have memories of having my father interfere with me before I realised I had a body. The pain made me realise all those flailing bits around me was my body. So it started very young for me. Safety non-existent.

Have you seen the threads recently about parts splitting? Mine was entitled 'Splitting'. I think it includes links to other threads started by @Bedbug and @Hope4Now. This might you understand the separation of adult and child selves.

 

[Jane.l]

I am finding T very triggering at the moment and again any kind of mindfulness or any thing on that spectrum and I immediately dissociate. Compassion is a majorly triggering word for me so anything along those lines also takes me out.

I find it impossible to do any of the healthy coping skills because they all contain these triggering concepts and then I revert to the things you have mentioned . So try to just do avoiding as much as possible but it's awfully messy when all the things you avoid come and back at you .

Thanks for your post I sometimes think it's just me . I even find the idea of having a child part triggering ?!?

 

[Hashi]

mindfulness - which even the word being said out loud to me triggers flashback bombardment.

@NovemberStar, it sounds like you're talking about mindfulness meditation/guided relaxation. Mindfulness means something a bit different - it's about staying focussed and "awake" while being active. For me, it's about not dissociating and not going into trauma memories, anxiety or panic. I practise mindfulness while I'm doing things like working out at the gym or cleaning the bathroom.

There's something called walking meditation. But you can walk without meditating. Walking doesn't equal meditation or relaxation. It's used that way sometimes, but it also exists separately from meditation. Same with mindfulness.

even the words 'mindfulness' or 'grounding' trigger me into being bombarded with flashbacks and panic.

I think we have to adapt concepts to our own particular situation. For me, the word "grounding" is very negative and so is feeling my feet on the floor. It actually has trauma connotations. So this is a terrible image for me and a word with terrible associations. I only use it here on the forum because people understand it, but I never use it for myself or in my own therapy.

Instead I use other words and I find other images of safety and stability. For me, running with ease is a very safe and comforting image.

I also couldn't do meditation for a very long time - it was distressing to try it and brought up great anxiety.

Instead, I think you just have to find the words, images and techniques that work for you. Even if you don't know why, go with the ones that make you feel safer and forget the ones that don't.

Also, I don't use CBT, direct exposure or challenging for trauma work. I think they are always too brutal. People may feel differently and may choose to use them, but if they don't want to then there are gentler alternatives.

 

[Lucycat]

I would be interested on your interpretation of dissociation and triggers/ triggering.

What do you see as calm and relaxing? What does it feel like to be grounded?

It worries me that you seem to delight in being 'untreatable' at the moment. I understand that you say that CBT may be an option in the future, but what is the current plan of action? You wont get better by simply sitting back and saying that no treatment will work. Therapy is really hard work. Also you speak of the problems of eye contact in EMDR. This is nonsense. You don't need eye contact - that is something that I did after 2 years of EMDR in a single shame-based session. Other session I have looked at the floor or wall and it has all been very effective. EMDR can be done quite gently, although takes a lot of preparation.

My concern is that you are posting about what you can't do and can't cope with, but I am not seeing any notion of what you can do and how you are going to effect your recovery.

 

[NovemberStar]

It worries me that you seem to delight in being 'untreatable' at the moment.

No, I definitely do not 'take delight' in being 'untreatable' - I don't see myself AS 'untreatable' - what my Dr said to me, just made sense and gave me an explanation I had spent years trying to understand - the WHY can't I do any of those 'coping' techniques.

My treatment is seeing my psychologist once a week, and we are working through the things that trigger me in our sessions, and working on finding a way for me to trust her. I do 'trust' her in that I KNOW she will not EVER hurt me - not on purpose in nay way, ever. I have trust in her skills, she is the most amazing T I have ever had, and I have had many of them over the past 20 plus years. BUT, deep inside of me, I find her very very threatening. I know it's 'transference' stuff, and we are slowly exploring this - something I have never had the courage or ability to do with another T ever before.

My T is greatly hopeful for me - as I AM being able to tolerate some distress for short periods of time - something I have never been able to do before.

So, no, I do not feel I am untreatable, and I have huge hope - having an explanation from my psychiatrist as to why it might be I find 'grounding intolerable has been a HUGE sense of RELIEF. And she said she believes I can one day do it if necessary - just that for now, it would do more harm than help.

My dr said EMDR you need to look up - at a pen? or object? I can't yet even look at my T's shoes. I could not tell you what shoes she wear,s or even the color, let alone what else she is wearing - I panic at even the thought of looking at her - although, one day i DID - when I knew she wasn't looking.

It's hard to explain - I just find it TOO INTENSE. It's too INTIMATE. Even talk of 'our work together' leaves me panicking.

I have yet to find something helpful that is not harmful, to 'feel relaxed when the worst of the PTSD symptoms are there. The only thing I find keep the PTSD manageable is sedatives to make me sleep and / or my eating disorder. Severe restricting keeps the PTSD away - bingeing and purging is the only real 'relaxing' thing I have found that completely 'relaxes' me. Of course, this is incredibly dangerous and harmful and I have nearly died a handful of times directly due to my eating disorder (cardiac ward for severe potassium deficiency, re-feeding syndrome etc).

One thing I do when I am having a panic attack is - when I;m home alone - lie down with my stomach on the floor. sometimes I hide under a blanket. That keeps me safe until the panic passes.

What do I consider 'triggers' or dissociation? that is a hard thing to explain - the words themselves explain it - I'm sure you're familiar with what they are … but it is an individual experience.

For me - what happens is I feel mainly physical effects - I go numb - my arms and face and mouth go very tingly, I feel I am going to pass our, faint, that I have been drugged and will black out. It feels 'everything; is 'out of control' - happening very fast around me and in very slow motion at the same time. I often have to 'lie down' on the floor. sometimes I cannot move or cannot talk. It feels like 'shock' - like I have just witnessed something truly awful happening and cannot make sense of it. I get very very spaced out, and feel I will 'black out' - be completely unaware of what I am doing, saying or who I am with. I am also bombarded with multiple and relentless flashbacks, lasting a few seconds, but one after another, and all the trauma feelings that come with it. I feel completely overwhelmed and unable to cope. I feel INWARDLY beside myself and want to die.

It's all to do with the aftermath of the traumatic incident (which I cannot even recall) - the flashbacks are of a time when something happened that affected me so badly I ran to my room, shut myself in my cupboard (my mother used to shut me in here and hold the door shut while I was terrified I'd run out of air and die), and then wanted to die to escape the fear and feeling 'this will NEVER EVER END - I will be stuck in this life forever, there is NO ESCAPE and no one will save me - and it will be like this until I die'. I tried to die - but being only 8 or 9 o r 10, all i knew to do to 'die' was to close my eyes and wish myself dead.

Because the traumatic memory is of a time where I was completely alone and emotionally flooded and very vey overwhelmed and unable to cope - I have an intense fear of it happening again - I get very very suicidal as a result of the flashbacks - because they are of a time when I del t very suicidal and del there was NO pother escape.

Does that make sense? All of THAT is what happens to me when I say 'I'm triggered'.

Do you mind me asking what your key trauma was / is?

 

[NovemberStar]

@NovemberStar . . .

There's something called walking meditation. But you can walk without meditating. Walking doesn't equal meditation or relaxation.

I might be doing 'walking' stuff already? At home, I do find some release in walking up and down my hallway, for about an hour at a time, talking to 'myself' as if I am talking to my T. the act of moving, in a rhythmical [ace, and talking and imagining she is there and listening, helps me articulate what it is that is happening for me at the time.

I have tried a few different things but the result is always panic and dissociation. From everything like 'mindfulness' to simply taking deep breaths - it all has the same very negative effect on me. Having an 'object' - even talking about focusing on an 'object' triggers intense fear in me. Heck, even writing this now, has ;(. Putting my feet on the floor … picturing 'nature' - talk of a 'safe place' - and the words 'self soothing' are highly triggering and awful. Just about any suggestion ever made in that context shuts me down. So as you can imagine - progress has been ver very very slow

In fact - 'nature' itself triggers suicidal ideation and suicidal feelings. When my Dr suggested mindfulness and tried to explain what it was and said 'think of nature' I had to tell her to stop as I felt suicidal and wanted to die. The sunshine, seeing 'pretty' things around me in nature, the moon, the stars, anything like that - leaves me suicidal and wanting to die - it's a pretty severe reaction and the only vague explanation I have for it is that - and it feels like a 'young' part in me - bewilderment and … hatred of life being the way it is - so 'beautiful' on the outside - stunning landscapes, and power and beauty of nature - yet so incredibly AWFUL and CRUEL at the same time. I think as a child growing up seeing the beauty of nature around me, and living in a personal hell, it made no sense - how can the world be so 'beautiful' and so incredibly painful and hellish at the same time?