Has A Supporter Ever Regained Your Trust Once You'd Decided It Was Gone?

[Deleted member 1860]

Unless I'm totally missing what PTSD is about it's not the sufferers fault. Ever.

I think this is the problem.

No, we can't control our automatic reactions, but.....even with time, and practice, these can be lessened. What we can control is how we treat people.

Not seeking treatment is an ACTIVE decision, not an automatic one. In this regard, PTSD behavior can be controlled.

We are 10000% responsible for healing. I will probably get flack for this, but what right does a sufferer have to inflict this pain on another? I'm talking about untreated PTSD. We all deserve love, but in the end, if the ship is sinking, you've got no right to take others down with you.

 

[Al_Lurker]

....We are 10000% responsible for healing. I will probably get flack for this, but what right does a sufferer have to inflict this pain on another? I'm talking about untreated PTSD. We all deserve love, but in the end, if the ship is sinking, you've got no right to take others down with you.

I agree with you almost 10000%.... but what you see as an active decision I'm not sure I can agree with. I don't know all of you that suffer but I see fear in all that I've come to know anything about, fear is an automatic reaction that we *all* recoil from at first exposure - sufferer or not. My sufferer is undiagnosed and it is my *belief* that she has made an active decision not to get treatment but that decision is not motivated by rational thought, at least not in full. She is afraid, pure and simple. Afraid of the intimacy that I brought, afraid of the intimacy that trusting a therapist would require. She is 'safer' hiding from the fear. I think it was @BigBear that said "it will find her" and he's right, but until that time I think the fear is in control, not 'her'. Not her rational thoughts and I've see that even after one seeks treatment and begins to assert control through rational thought that fear never totally subsides. My point is that as a supporter, I cannot control what you feel or do but I can control how I feel and whether I can forgive you for your actions based on the rational thought processes that I have. If the ship is sinking then maybe I do need to man the lifeboats but I don't need to blame you, lots of people have treated me badly but I don't take each to task for it my whole life, don't paint others with the same brush. This is the essence of healing.

 

[Tinyflame]

I 'like' both @Solara 's post and @Al_Lurker 's. It is the responsibilty of the sufferer of what to do about it. What else can one do with an anxiety-based disorder? I guess the difference Al of what you speak of is your own internal thoughts, feelings and forgiveness about it, that are reflected in your external actions. And actions speak most truthfully. Then again, you are a supporter out of choice, whereas relationships (even family) do not necessarily accept ptsd nor view it or the person in those terms. It's a bit more like modern-day leprosy in my experience.

But, that has nothing to do with 'trust', just observation. The deal-breakers are unique to each person, sometimes they are rational (a sufferer knows when they are shunned or avoided or shamed, better they leave), or less rational (the supporter does not feel that way or deserve that response). Similarly so for 'supporters'.

If anything Al, if her response is only based on mistrust that is unfounded she might possibly view it differently eventually. But, she may also just carry on with her life without revisiting it.

 

[Echo]

My ex keeps popping up in my life. He is not making direct contact but he is evidently checking me out and trying to get oblique messages to me. For this reason, rather like your ex, Al, I am having to consider how it would be if he wished to come back into my life after having run away with no explanation (in his case for so many months). I don't know how long you were away from your ex or when you explained things to her; I know only from what you've said elsewhere that you left for another continent.

Of course, I am not your ex and I don't know her story, but I do know that my ex has done this twice to me. I now see his issues more clearly and my own needs in general as a human being, as well as my hopefully temporary needs whilst I have CPTSD. In the past I have settled for too little, I have let people treat me badly and I have forgiven far too quickly. I have let men back into my life without evidence that they might take responsibility for their own actions and get help for their own issues. I have let them blame me for the harm they did to our relationship, to me and, indeed, to themselves. None of that was healthy.

So though I am still struggling to know how to respond if, and/or when my ex gets back in contact properly, I do know that he is going to have to really demonstrate that he owns his part fully in what happened and that he has or is doing all he can to deal with his stuff, as I am. It cannot just be allowed to resume as before.

I know you feel your ex hasn't done her bit, and maybe can't just yet, or may never choose to do so. If you feel you have done your part fully in the reparation process and demonstrated with actions, not just words, that this is so, and she is still not open to considering re-opening the relationship with you, then it may never work.

Just a thought though: you have identified one route (that you have told us about) that you feel would help her, which is that she should move with her children to the States from the UK and be reliant on you financially for therapeutic help (please correct me if I'm wrong). I am wondering whether you could ask her or discuss with her what other options might be possible but less risky for her and her family but might mean she would entertain a relationship with you and give you the chance to build up trust with her again, well before entering into such a massive, life-changing step with someone who recently ran away from her.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood the particulars or if I am missing the point. But whether or not she chooses therapy right now, as a human being she does have the right to choose safe options for herself and her children. You might know she can trust you to not run again, but in reality she might need months or even years before she can feel she can trust you, PTSD or not. If she's been badly betrayed before, she may feel at the moment that it would be impossible ever to get to that stage.

I do hope you find a way through, but I wonder if your position also may need to be softened before things come good.

 

[Al_Lurker]

...Forgive me if I have misunderstood the particulars or if I am missing the point. But whether or not she chooses therapy right now, as a human being she does have the right to choose safe options for herself and her children. You might know she can trust you to not run again, but in reality she might need months or even years before she can feel she can trust you, PTSD or not. If she's been badly betrayed before, she may feel at the moment that it would be impossible ever to get to that stage.....

You seem to have a very good grasp of the point. I have offered the option for me to move there when I am eligible to retire but that's 2 years away and it's virtually impossible before then. The financial aspect of the relationship would change but at nearly zero risk to her, only takes a letter for her to write to have my visa revoked and me sent home. I respect her right to choose her path and that is why I have chosen the one that I have. I do not wish to force her into anything or control her actions nor do I blame her for feeling as she does, PTSD or not .I openly admit that it is hard for me to accept that she has so much evidence that she can trust me (even for the big move) but still feels that one action (or more that she never called out?) was enough to erase all trust of 4 years as friends and fiance - I was hurt and angry just as she was and I overreacted. She has been very badly betrayed - repeatedly - and I knew that, but my own memories of betrayals past were 'triggered' too and my thinking wasn't as clear as it gets. If she is to trust me to any degree I understand that it must be on her terms - I made a mistake, I know and have admitted that, apologized profusely and I lost much for it and it will remain lost as long as she feels it must be. I will accept whatever course she chooses, I have no other option. I have taken the only 'actions' that I'm capable of taking from this far away. I have deliberately made sure that i don't 'check her out' or try to get oblique messages to her. I've left no doubt as to how I feel about us and she knows how to contact me. If she asks, I will respond. That is the only position I can be in that seems to be best for us both. If you have suggestions on how to 'soften my position' any further I will gladly listen.


I did not wish this thread to become about my personal situation, only to try to gain insight into her thinking and the thinking of at least 2 other of my friends who are diagnosed. I was uneducated about PTSD and other mental wounds and God has seen fit to prompt me to educate myself and hopefully spread that knowledge to others. @Junebug made a reference to the stigma attached to this and other mental disorders, this is the kind of thing that I think I can be part of the solution to as opposed to part of the problem. If I can change one person's thought about PTSD, one person who decides not to blame their sufferer for something they've said or done and that relationship is repaired, one sufferer who reads my words and seeks treatment or apologizes for bad behavior to a supporter - then I've done something that I've set out to do. This thread is part of that 'realtionship' with myself as well as much as it is about my relationship with her.

 

[Tinyflame]

That's very kind @Al_Lurker . Thank you.

I too don't want to color anything with my own experiences, fears, and the like. But for example, yesterday, over nothing, this nice couple (I don't know that well), I overheard them out of the blue, one said, "isn't she so sweet", as regards myself. I thought, bet you they wouldn't think that if they knew about the ptsd. So in that way I feel like a liar, (or at least recognize the disparity). In so far as I am not lying, both are true. But it's like being a two-sided coin, and others [both accurately (realities, if they come to be known- if 'I' come to be known) and inaccurately, that is stigma] will come to find out soon enough or at least eventually (unfortunately).

PTSD has sometimes been described as a 'third person' between people. Unfortunately, I am one of those people where it is my 'Siamese twin', I have never mastered seperating 'me' from 'it', or can't quite discriminate which is 'me' and which is from it. Perhaps people more healed (or whatever the word) can do that more readily.

 

[Al_Lurker]

@Junebug we all have secrets that we don't show the world. Mine is a virus that also carries a stigma to those that don't have it and don't know what it really is. Isn't even one that can kill you, just one that 'society' has determined that one is 'dirty' for having and like all virii it is incurable. That stigma is every bit as strong and it is pales in comparison to the one that surrounds PTSD and any other mental wound. For me your reference to leprosy isn't all that far off the mark.

 

[The Albatross]

...- for example, yesterday, over nothing, this nice couple (I don't know that well), I overheard them out of the blue, one said, "isn't she so sweet", as regards myself. I thought, bet you they wouldn't think that if they knew about the ptsd. So in that way I feel like a liar, (or at least recognize the disparity). In so far as I am not lying, both are true. But it's like being a two-sided coin, and others [both accurately (realities, if they come to be known- if 'I' come to be known) and inaccurately, that is stigma] will come to find out soon enough or at least eventually (unfortunately).
.

Are they both true? Or is "I bet you they wouldn't think that about the PTSD" self defeating thinking?

PTSD is no different than asthma, or being an amputee, or fibromyalgia, or MRSA. It is not who I am, though it is a facet of what I am and what I deal with. To me there is a difference and I don't particularly allow my inner critic such commentary. I am pretty strict that way with "which part" controls the conversation.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you @Al_Lurker . It's not something I want to say or default to because of poor self-esteem, it's just many years of living.

The awful part with ptsd is not just that it is physical or has physical manifestations but what goes beyond it, emotional etc. This is where it presents as a burden. (Did I mention it's an evil-500 pound-twin! :( ) For most people it is too complicated, too annoying, too etc etc. Too much depression with it, too little self-esteem, too bothersome, too much of all of it, really. Grounds and realities most people don't live with and ideally avoid. Hence not just stigma but choice to rather avoid.

But, I can think of times I've reacted that way, so I don't blame others for it, Anthony said something similar. And, to each his own. I know personally I have enough to 'force' myself to do or overcome that I don't need to go looking for it. Only if I must, say for work.

 

[Tinyflame]

I am sure you are right, @The Albatross , in so far as I forgot about the Inner Critic. But I am meaning more of other's 'External Critic'. Many people have a lens they see things through differently when they know info. Less like asthma (that they view it), and more why I said leprosy (in terms of thoughts, 'feelings', etc).

Mind you, maybe it's just 'me'. Some of us are less functional perhaps, naturally 'present' differently, and also simply are different people (personality, appearance, beliefs etc).

 

[The Albatross]

With respect, you are no predictor (and neither am I) of what perceptions people will have.

 

[Tinyflame]

I do feel, there is a difference between thinking thoughts for others and responding to others behaviour. The first would be incorrect, but not seeing the secong would make me blind and deaf. I can only go by my own experiences.

I think having ptsd requires a lot of humility. But not necessarily forcing myself to be where or in ways I am not acceptable as a human being.