News Prison Sentences?

[Kas_Can_Fly]

One of the many reasons I'm too scared to take my abusers to court is because of limited sentencing. I'm scared not only of the court case itself but of what would happen when they get out - even if we did relocate, I wouldn't feel that I wouldn't be findable by one abuser.

Today I was reading an article about Max Clifford's sentence of 8 years for eight accounts of indecent assault, the youngest victim of whom was 15. Comments on the story range from complete denial of the court's findings to outrage - one of which stated killers have had less time in jail. It's got me thinking, although I don't know how far those assaults went, I will trust the jury's findings. However my questions are:

1. Do you think that 8 year long sentence (probably out in 3-4, maybe sooner) is appropriate.
2. Do you think that in general (UK, or your country if you'd prefer) prison sentences are of appropriate length/severity for those convicted of sex crimes including rape and child molestation?
3. Do you thing that rape is equatable to murder, only the victim(s) survive?

 

[digger]

I heard that too earlier. About Max Clifford. I haven't followed the case. I mostly try and avoid the news because there have been so many of these high profile cases over the past few years, and its a trigger I don't cope with very well. My instant reaction when I heard the eight years though was 'That's not enough.' I can't help but compare to the sentences that their victims have to endure and then it never seems enough.

 

[Echo]

The thing I hadn't realised, when I heard the sentence, was that the judge was only allowed to apply the tariff that applied at the time of the assaults. He said that, had MC done what he did more recently, he would have been charged with rape for one of the assaults, with a maximum sentence of 10 years. Many people thought he would only get 2 years in all (various sentences served concurrently), so I am glad the judge sentenced him as he did - i.e. as hard as he could. But I agree @digger1, I do often find myself thinking that if people understood how long the suffering goes on, then maybe some of the sentences would be far higher.

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

I haven't followed the case.

Neither have I, nor do I know who he is but I did read an article today, because I couldn't understand how 8 years was enough especially when underage assault was factored in.

I did read this:

was that the judge was only allowed to apply the tariff that applied at the time of the assaults

but not this:

he would have been charged with rape for one of the assaults

which horrifies me more. I hope he does not get an early release.

I can't help but compare to the sentences that their victims have to endure and then it never seems enough.

So few people factor this in, no matter what their argument is. :(

 

[Notsowild]

My dad was finally (it was a long process) sentenced to five years in prison and out in 3 1/2 for sexually abusing his 6 daughters. Are the sentences lighter if its family? Yuck Not fair.

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

My dad was finally (it was a long process) sentenced to five years in prison and out in 3 1/2 for sexually abusing his 6 daughters.

Thank you for sharing, I'm so sorry.

 

[scout86]

It seems to me that, since these people aren't very likely to change their behavior, for any reason, they need to be locked up where they can't hurt anyone else, permanently. There is no way they can "pay" for what they've done. They just need to be removed from society.

 

[mytai]

I was told that in my province sentences tend to only run 3 to 6 months (social worker told me). Not that I will ever know from experiencing it in my own assault cases.

 

[Echo]

He said that, had MC done what he did more recently, he would have been charged with rape for one of the assaults, with a maximum sentence of 10 years.

I've just read this article in the Guardian which gives quite a lot of detail about the sentencing. They say he might have got a life sentence for what he did, had the assaults been committed today (just thought I'd better correct what I said earlier - though both are from mainstream media, so I don't know which is correct): http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...t-years-jail-indecently-assaulting-four-girls

 

[Hashi]

More than the length of the prison sentence, it's what happens after prison that concerns me. I think there should be a great deal of mandatory registration, reporting, monitoring, liaison with and guidance for families, and in some cases other measures like curfews, long-term restrictions on movement and tagging.

I know people often think this is what the UK Sex Offenders Register is about, but it isn't - it does something different and doesn't work to proactively reduce the risk to the public.

I also imagine there would be some people who think all this would be too much infringement on civil liberties, but as far as I'm concerned those rights have already been forfeited. Rights come with responsibility, and if someone chose to give up their responsibility then - to me - they have chosen to give up their rights also. If they have some reason that they can't be responsible, then all the more reason for external monitoring and control

I don't think focussing on longer prison sentences is feasible, and it's always going to leave the thing of "what happens when they get out". I think I much more managed supervision and control in the community - long term - is more valuable than a few extra years in jail then almost nothing once they're out.

Regarding rape and murder, my feelings about that are based on my personal experiences and they're not the feelings I would otherwise expect or choose. I was "murdered" (I died and came back) and although I would otherwise expect I would see little difference in the enormity of rape and murder, I have experienced a huge difference. Even though logically I'd say there's not much between them, and I would want to say that, my experience means I wouldn't say that.

Rape is an indescribable offence against a human being. But I've found murder to be beyond even that. It's impossible to put into words how I feel about it - the whole other level that comes with actually taking someone's life away from them.

Again, I'm not sure if the question is the question I'd prefer to be asking. Rather than are they comparable, which in a gentle way I'd like to suggest that perhaps comparing isn't the most helpful way to approach it, I would prefer to think about rape on it's own instead. Is rape an offence of such magnitude that....? For example, is rape an offence of such magnitude that it should carry a life sentence?

Personally, I think the "for life" aspect needs to be taken care of after a prison sentence, with a great deal of control and management following jail.

@KAS I understand what you say about your fears. I know it doesn't change anything to say it, but I really am so sorry things are this way.

 

[Meadowsweet]

For me, the idea of going to court has never been about the sentence, but about being believed. To have somebody publicly prove that what that person did wasn't just "not really right/now just get over it", but really wrong and something that society will not accept without punishment.

I've felt on the outside of family because I carried the secret of the bad things that happened to me and had to be secretive. I've felt isolated from the rest of the world while i supported dominant men. When I thought I'd found a home in a spiritual commumity, I was ostracized when one of them attacked me, and others chose to ignore it. Now, I feel that I'm on my own in the world and that my secrets are mine to carry.

To have the law and an independent jury say to the world that this abuse happened - that it is his wrong, and that it is him who society should have pay for HIS crimes by having his freedom taken away, would mean the absolute world to me.

But on top of the custodial sentence, someone in Max Clifford's position will have lost his career, his social status, probably many of his friends that don't want to be associated with sexual abuse, and any future prospects. Because of his fame, it also turns the views of memories of the 'successful' man into the disgusting man. One last thing, I think he will be scared to be taken out of the environment that he is treated with admiration in, and put into prison.

What I'm saying, is that the guilty verdict with a custodial sentence is a society saying that it's wrong, and i have no doubt that he will pay much deeper than the number of years served behind bars.

 

[Hashi]

Oh, another concern about longer prison sentences is that it's been repeatedly shown that the harsher the possible penalty, the less likely juries are to find someone guilty. The burden of proof of guilt increases.