What Do You Talk About?

[Sarah2732]

I think a little bit.


I actually picked him because in build/age/complexion he looks like my primary abuser... so no surprise it's going slow... I knew it would progress faster with some old professorial type guy but I hope the difficulty of this will pay off in diffusing those triggers... We still mostly make small talk and that feels like a pretty big deal for me... I've never had any relationship, even a friendship, with a straight male before...

 

[NovemberStar]

@Sarah2732 gosh that is so brave and inspiring. Talk about a huge bottle of brave!

@xena21 SOME men are dangerous; SOME men are predators. But most men are not. I completely respect that the opposite might have been true for you so far in your life; but I think it's important to challenge the idea 'all' men are out to hurt women.

Even though my main abuser was female, I have a massive fear of 'unwanted attention, from men. Yes I have been molested -by more than one person (teen boys and a man)- but it was the experience of emotional rape by my mother that has given me a fear of physical rape by a man. The sensation of being invaded emotionally - of having my boundaries violated for the benefit of another human being, at the expense of my well-being, has left me fearing ANY form of invasion. I do not fear men, but I would not feel able to have a male T. With any T I am afraid of being invaded - mentally and emotionally - I'm vulnerable enough so could not take the (very small) risk of sexual invasion as well.

 

[BloomInWinter]

Not all men hurt women, but most women have been hurt by men at some point in their lives. I have yet to run across a woman who says "I've always been treated with full respect and appropriateness by men."

I really hope this stops being the norm in our culture.

 

[xena21]

With any T I am afraid of being invaded - mentally and emotionally - I'm vulnerable enough so could not take the (very small) risk of sexual invasion as well.

This rings so true for me. My whole life has been about safety and protecting myself from others...not just men. Men have been the predominant sex that have caused the most harm, but anyone I am near causes me fear at some level. That's why I am alone in the world. That's why I am having no success in therapy. My therapists want me to open up and share with them and I am utterly STUCK! Are they serious? They want me to tell them things that will make me vulnerable when for the past 30 years I have been surviving by trying to keep myself safe?

They think it's so easy to just open up and tell your life's journey...that's BS. I am so walled up that a hand grenade wouldn't penetrate my defenses right now. I joined my jobs to defend myself from this evil world we live in. I learned how to do just that. I wait each day for someone to try and hurt me, just so I can practice what I have learned. The fear has turned to hate and anger. I don't fear men in the same way. I hate them much of the time and want them to try something, so I can show them they CAN'T hurt me. Rationally I KNOW there are men who are good, but I learned at a very young age that wasn't the case.

 

[NovemberStar]

@xena21 - very hard to open up, yes - but it will be the only way forward - a saying I like goes like this:

"if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got".

I mean that in relation to opening up to others. If every T you have seen you have never taken the plunge and talked to them and shared all (or even SOME!) the things that make you vulnerable, then THAT is exactly what you need to do in order to have a different life.

Put it this way - you know for sure, 100% what will happen if you do not BEGIN to take some risks and open up to your T - what will happen? What will change? NOTHING. Life will continue to be exactly the same, and you will not be any closer to beginning to try to get close to other human beings - and that is something you have clearly identified that you would really like, but fear stops you at the moment.

So you don't actually have a lot to lose really - do what you've always done, and you know the outcome and what the future holds … buuuuuttttttt - talk to your T about the steps needed in order for you to feel safe enough to open up just a little at a time. Trying something NEW is terrifying, but honestly, the alternative isn't too flash either hun.

As I said above you do seem to trust your T in that you have talked to her (?) about some of this - so I am gently encouraging you to take another step at your next app - perhaps print off some of what you have posted, as a starting point - you have shared what you want to be able to have (have someone in your life) and you have identified what is stopping you (fear of being hurt; feeling you have to protect yourself at all costs; inability to open up and talk about things you have kept to yourself for all these years as they leave you feeling very vulnerable).

See - you've actually done half the work for your T already ;).

And it also proves you are FAR from 'hopeless' - because you know what you haven't done before in therapy - if you had talked to every single T about every single thing and every single fear you have, and it had made zero difference, then yeah, maybe you'd be a lost cause - but - clearly you aren't, cos there is a LOt yet for you to work on and you'll only know if it will work or not if you give it a good go! :).

Hey, feel free to prove me wrong ;)

a) write a list of things you are MOST afraid of, when it comes to other people. Do NOT leave a single thing out!

b) let your T know you have a list of things you are very afraid of, and talk to your T about your fear of TALKING and SHARING those fears with her,

c) come up with a plan, one thing on the list at a time (I found it easier to rate the things on my list as being least scary, to most scary, even had a list within the list of 'this I can NEVER talk about, and start with the least scary thing),

d) once you have gone through the list, and talked about every single fear, and faced it head on with your T, and left no stone overturned, then come back and let me know if it made zero difference :)


:hug:

 

[xena21]

write a list of things you are MOST afraid of, when it comes to other people. Do NOT leave a single thing out!

That's actually a great idea! I think maybe if I put it in writing and tell them I'm afraid of AB and C then I can talk about it easier out loud. I have tried writing things down before but not in a logical manner, just as the thoughts come and haphazard. I think if I am more organized and can explain myself, it will go better for me.

See - you've actually done half the work for your T already

I always feel like I've done most of the work for the therapist. I know it's my job to explain things, but I am stuck so much that I want guidance and explanations on what to do and where to go. I am so lost sometimes that I need a shove. We just sit there and look at each other. Its a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.

My OCD gets in the way a lot, but I always hope they can figure it out. I have severe OCD that takes my trauma and intensifies it 10fold. I obsess like you wouldn't imagine about every little detail that happened. My therapists are trauma specialists not OCD specialists so its frustrating sometimes because they don't know how to proceed. It is different. The two definitely cause a problem together.

 

[Sarah2732]

That's actually a great idea! I think maybe if I put it in writing and tell them I'm afraid of AB and C then I can talk about it easier out loud. I have tried writing things down before but not in a logical manner, just as the thoughts come and haphazard. I think if I am more organized and can explain myself, it will go better for me.

If you are a visual thinker, you might check out mind mapping (see examples by looking up mind map on wikipedia) It's basically just creating a very messy flow chart- but by laying it out visually you can make connections you might otherwise not be able to see.

 

[NovemberStar]

@xena21 _ I too have always 'done the work of the T' - it made me feel clever; left me feeling secure and smart, but it didn't help in my overall progress much. Far scarier to let go of the 'control' and trying to super analyze EVERYTHING and second guess what my T is thinking or how she will respond (or not) to everything and start to peel away some of the onion layers …

Good on you for thinking a list is a good idea - will you let us now when you have written it? It took me a long time to write the things down on my piece of paper. In the end, I did it during a heavy afternoon of flashbacks - so I could fee any sense of control in what was happening to my mind. I had to scribble my bigger fears down in shorthand, and couldn't even pick up the piece of paper for a couple more days. It lay in the middle of the hallway for two days. I guess it was a form of exposure therapy in the end.

Then when my dissociation and flashbacks were really bad; when I could no longer ignore what my mind was screaming at me to acknowledge, is when I emailed her The List. I was terrified. I said in it, these are the things I am most afraid of talking to her about - and wasn't sure if I would be able to talk much about them yet, but I did want to try. In our next session, after she got the email, we started on the easiest of the hard things … it helped a lot - it gave me courage to talk about the others, and the next week the floodgates were wide open.

But it's been a very very very positive, and relieving experience. It's helped me feel closer to my T, but in a safe way.

Letting down the walls is helping me to heal. It can be the same for you too Xena ;)

 

[Hashi]

My reason for therapy is that I have Inner Child issues where the 'child' is so dissociated from my adult self that I have a lot of anxiety, nightmares, horrors, etc. My adult self copes really well, but the "child' is frequently interfering. I'm a tough gal on the surface and in front of the therapist a lot of the time. Until recently, I denied this weak child existed and was very hostile to the inner child idea...
Yes, I should write this down and also just chill, perhaps, hoping it will all settle out in due time... I could talk about x-boyfriend, Roy, for weeks, tho I don't care a hoot about him now, lol.

I don't really understand why it seems to be a choice between talking about the transference that has come up (which you don't want to do yet) or talking about something pointless.

Do you know the saying "can't see the wood for the trees"? Meaning that you might be getting so stuck in the immediate thoughts and feelings that you're not turning your attention to a wider, more general picture that this is part of. From what you say, I do think there's a wider, more general picture that you could be discussing in therapy, and that could help you build up to discussing the harder things.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can talk generally about the inner child issues, talk generally about your concerns about transference, talk generally about things that are on topic.

Now someone with these kinds of transference issues can come along and tell me why I'm wrong... :)

 

[Pencil]

Now someone with these kinds of transference issues can come along and tell me why I'm wrong.

I think I'm suitably qualified :D to comment:

You're not wrong. I think the main thing with attachment / transference issues is to 'do' the relationship, and not talk about it endlessly.

 

[Skylynx]

I very much appreciate your comments, all of you, whether you're talking about yourselves or therapy in general. This attachment, transference, problem in me is so important. It did help to chill a little, as I was digging myself into a hole by being too scientific and analytical. I can read some heavy psychology books, but maybe that hasn't served me well to try and be my own shrink.

My T is so sweet and motherly I can't help loving her, but I'm scared of being betrayed, too. She has mentioned several times how I can be the good mother to my Inner Child. I'm taking that to mean I shouldn't bother her with my transference complexities, but just go home and take care of this myself. Her saying that has grown into a big boulder in the road and has shut me down. I'm so afraid I will die and decompose right there when I hear the advice to be more independent. I heard that every day from the caregivers that raised me . I became super independent and dismissive of relationships, so am very reactive to any advice to be more on my own. Omnipotent denial is my modus operandi, but underneath is the deep longing for connection, countered with much indignance at any implication I'm not being the super independent person this world expects. Yek!

I feel reluctant to tell T I don't like the advice about being my own good mother , because it seems like I'm trying to change her therapy style and I feel that would be impossible anyway. I read Bradshaws book "Homecoming, Reclaiming Your Inner Child" and it's very informative, but also is a do-it-yourself style. I'm just really confused about how much I'm supposed to do and how much T does. I'm thinking of changing therapists because I just can't be my own mother with so much fear and hatred about my inner kid.