Sexual Assault Sex In Relationships

[Meadowsweet]

I read this some time ago now, but the questions and fears it raised in me are persistent and it bothers me a lot.

The basic story - the partner of a woman who was having therapy due to sexual abuse, was upset because she wasn't fulfilling his need for physical affection (I may be wrong, but I take that to mean sex). He reported that she had tried to reassure him that it wasn't him, that she still loved him, but was struggling with that side of things. So there was nothing to suggest that she was being critical of him sexually. I can empathise with how sad this situation was for both parties. But, what worries me is the attitudes that were some of the opinions that were given.

One was that she was guilty of emotional neglect and abusing him. Another was the notion that she had entered into a contract when she got into the relationship and was failing to fulfill it. It's the last one that I find really frightening.

In relationships I have had sex to pacify and try to avoid retribution for not. But that hasn't always been a conscious decision, it has been a habitual dissociated reaction. That is a big fear for me, because it has the potential to put me at risk. So, I've thought it was me who needs to re-learn a healthier attitude towards sexual relationships and learn to trust that an assertive choice about what somebody can do to my body, will generally be respected by non-abusive men.

I've trusted in that part of my therapy, I don't know about decent, caring men, because I don't have that experience. So I have no choice but to trust. And I feel let down, like I've been sold some ideal about sexual relationships just to make me feel better - but if I ever try to apply what I've learned in the real world, would I just be opening up to those criticisms or abuse?

Is there an unwritten contract that getting into a relationship means giving regular sex (and how often is 'regular' enough?) What is normal in sexual relationships?

 

[J_trustno1]

Hi @Meadowsweet , I can relate to what you are going through. I myself have trusting issues of men because of the childhood abuse. I have not allowed any guy touch me or come near me till this date because I am not ready for a relationship. I am not saying that it is your fault to be in a relationship but you need to let this guy know that you can't fulfill those sexual needs because of your past issues. In saying this, it can really affect your relationship for good or bad because then you will get to find out if this person is what he claims to be. Apart from saying this, you really need to sort out your sexual fears before you get into any relationship because it no good getting into relationship when you are not truthful to yourself or your partner about both of your needs.

I didn't mean to hurt you but you need therapy to heal over these issues. This is the only thing I can suggest from personal experience.

 

[Meadowsweet]

@jess_trustno1 , sorry if I've expressed this badly. Just to clarify, I haven't been in a relationship for 10 years and there isn't any relationship on the horizon.

Having never had a healthy relationship, I look at other peoples attitudes to and within relationships, to get some sense of what is normal and what is right or wrong in a relationship. .

 

[J_trustno1]

I'm sorry for misunderstanding @Meadowsweet . Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Even I feel lost in that relationship horizon because I believe that i will never be able to provide this person with sex since I see it as a very gross thing.

 

[Lucycat]

An interesting thread. Although 'not quite' a virgin when I met Rory I was certainly sexually very naive. Remembering he is older than me and was already a divorced parent when we met, he had to tell me that it was not expected of me that we had sex every time we shared a bed. That was a total surprise to me. I had presumed it to be my duty.

I have no idea what is 'normal'. I suspect that we are now ( after 28 years) 'less often than normal'. However it seems to work for us both. Rory has never made me think there is any obligation on the part of either of us to perform sexually. However I do think that physical affection such as hugs and kisses are far more important. I know I am loved by him even if we haven't 'done it' for months. I went through a phase when I thought there was some rule that you had to do it on birthdays and anniversaries etc. Now I see the nonsense of that and we are much more relaxed about the whole thing.

 

[digger]

One was that she was guilty of emotional neglect and abusing him. Another was the notion that she had entered into a contract when she got into the relationship and was failing to fulfill it. It's the last one that I find really frightening.

Is there an unwritten contract that getting into a relationship means giving regular sex (and how often is 'regular' enough?) What is normal in sexual relationships?

I'm afraid I can't answer the 'what is normal' question, but this sounds so like my son's father's attitude of what was normal/expected. He considered sex to be a 'right' - a husband has rights you know - not that we were actually married but that seemed to slip his mind! A man has needs don't you know - the implication being that it was my job to fulfil them regardless of my own needs at the time.

I don't, and didn't, agree with him. Him saying those things out loud pretty much sealed the deal for me on our relationship being over. Yet I still end up repeating the same patterns....

 

[digger]

Hmmm...okay this has got me thinking now and it seems to be a bit more complicated. Because even though I don't agree with the view intellectually, it seems to be somewhat ingrained in me anyway to expect that and act in ways that support it. I say this because it doesn't seem to be just a male/female thing - in relationships with women I would also consider it my 'role' to put the other person's needs/desires above my own.... I guess it's just another thing for my head to be in conflict over! (Because I really need more of that!)

 

[Antidote]

Not necessarily regular sex, but more like regular signs of affection with sex thrown in as much as you can handle lol or at least in my experience.

I have times when it's just not a good idea for me to have sex and those times can last up to a month or two (at first it used to be almost all winter, though now it's rarely ever a month). My boyfriend now (and my ex used to) would wait until I want sex though every so often he tries to hint in a sexual way that isn't scary or triggering to me.I've noticed most guys get grumpy without sex, not angry or starting fights just grumpy.

That being said not all guys are like that, my ex started out waiting for me to want sex but after he learned about how I "zone out" sometimes and some things that cause it he started using it to get sex. That being said I think his lifestyle warped his brain and changed him into a worse person than I who I met.

The way I look at it is: everyone has views and opinions on every little thing.In relationships if the big views and opinions don't match or compliment each other the relationship falls apart.

If you're with a guy that thinks having sex once a week is the bare minimum and you can't always healthily do that then it'll probably fall apart.

If you're with a guy that would rather ask why you don't want to have sex and be more flexible to your needs (which is why I say regular shows of affections since he is putting his own want of sex aside I feel like I should at least show him I care instead of completely pushing him away like I want to at those times) then you're with someone who shares that same view on sex as you do.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I do think that physical affection such as hugs and kisses are far more important. I know I am loved by him even if we haven't 'done it' for months.

I think this is an important point. Sometimes, and especially when I am feeling in a child-like state of mind, I crave hugs. But from what I remember from relationships, hugs were simply a pretense at love and would quickly turn into sex. When feeling the need for a loving hug, the worse thing for me is for it to turn sexual. It destroys the trust in touch being about love, not just sex.

Your relationship is an inspirational one Lucycat, thank you for sharing about it.

 

[Notsowild]

Lets see... I don't know how to start this. Sex - I enjoy it a lot BUT only on my terms. Being a CSA survivor I have a lot of quirks about it too. There are certain things I hate men to do. I would have to be in charge of the whole thing. Boy does that sound weird.

When I was married I found it hard to sustain a " normal " sex life. He wanted it more than me and sometimes I would just give in and not enjoy it because it was my duty as a wife.

I guess that's why I'll probably always be single. The whole sex thing is too complicated for me. And I would pity the poor guy who would have to deal with all my quirks.

 

[bluebird]

...I´ve never had sex with a man, not yet - maybe never will, as I am too scared.

But - I used to date some guys - I thought I was in love - I tried really hard to act in the way I assumed they had wanted me to act... I tried. I traded myself, my whole body, my hands, letting them do whatever they wanted, I traded kisses - for - I don´t know? Kindness? Safety? Hoping it would have somehow "been enough"? So that they wouldn´t have been angry at me, as He had so many years ago?

I have kissed some men.

But I wasn´t here, not even one single time. I was gone, completely.

It only made me feel more empty.

Since I have started talking about being a victim of childhood sexual abuse - I realised that I was doing this. I realised it poisons relationships. I have found courage and told my best friend about it - I told him I felt like that in the moment when we were together and he held me and gently stroked my hair, touching my face, arms... I told him I was scared and that I was not present...

He was shocked. He was terribly sorry. He said to me that this was not what he wanted... He wanted me to be here, with him, feeling his love for me, feeling safe in his arms... He didn´t want me to be a puppet... I - guess - it took me a long time to be able to understand his point of view... But - yes, I think I understand now -

Being with somebody should express your love for the other person... It´s not about sattisfying your own needs or desperately trying to satisfy his. I am scared, certainly, I am - I can´t stand him being too close. I can´t kiss him on the cheeks, because it triggers bad memories.

But when I hug him, I know the reason why I am doing this is that I want to. I want to be with him. I want to be near him. It´s not sexual, but it does mean something. I want him to stroke my hair, because it has a meaning. I want to express I love him as much as a child would love somebody. I trust him with all my heart. The little ones inside of me love him as their mother. I know he cares. I know he asks me if I am with him in this place and time. I know he doesn´t want to hurt me... I know he doesn´t let me hurt myself.

I think it can get better. I agree with @Lucycat - kisses and hugs are maybe even more important. What is the most important thing in each relationship, is mutual love, respect and trust. The other things can be slowly built; surely, there will be problems, but you can face them together... :)

 

[Meadowsweet]

Bluebird, thank you for sharing that. It seems that perhaps there are a few decent people out there who genuinely love.
But perhaps they are rare?

I don't understand why anyone would want sex with a person that they've had to nag or guilt trip, demand it as a right or play the emotionally neglected victim, in order to get them to give in. To have sex with someone who has given in, rather than someone who will enjoy it with you, is sad.

But I'm feeling stuck now between these views. @Lucycat and @bluebird, give two wonderful experiences that I'd like to believe were more common, but am I avoiding the reality by pinning hopes on experiences like that?

I guess I want to know what 'normal' is, so that I can understand where it's ok to place my boundaries and be safe.