Do You Think Traumas Play A Role In Making You Honest/dishonest?

[rightkindofme]

My trauma resulted in me being an "over-sharing" kind of person. Being a dirty little secret was really dangerous and bad for me. As a result I'm brutally honest. If I find out someone lies to me I have zero tolerance. I don't want you in my life if you lie to me.

My whole family is full of compulsive liars. It was rough.

 

[soleilsalve]

@scout86
ITA. I hate being lied to as well, and I even go out of my way to avoid situations where lying might be necessary.

That said, I don't see "I'm fine" as a lie. Rather, it's part of the social grease that helps my day to run (more or less) smoothly. When a coworker says, "Hi. How are you?" it's not an invitation to share so much as it's an extended version of "Hello." I don't think I'm telling them what they want to hear so much as I'm NOT telling them what they DON'T want to hear. Hopefully, that makes sense to someone besides me. :-)

 

[scout86]

I even go out of my way to avoid situations where lying might be necessary.

My T says that lying is almost never necessary. (He makes some exceptions for prisoners being tortured, but has shared some kind of out there ways to avoid it even then.) He says when all else fails, "None of your business" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

 

[ms spock]

Lying or saying exactly what my parents wanted to hear was the difference between being brutalised, kicked across the room or ongoing torture. I wasn't allowed to have thoughts or feelings different from my parents. Black was white and then white was black and you snapped to attention and said what they wanted to hear. Lying is a huge problem. I was crying yesterday and today but I told people I was fine. The small child in me is terrified to tell the truth. It feels like I could die.

I had to be a happy child and an entertaining child no matter what just happened to me. I developed false selves and I lied to stop my father or mother hurting myself or the other children.

Complex Trauma and severe child abuse means children have to lie to themselves and to their parents to survive. It is in the literature.

But when I was 15 on the run from my father, who tried to kill me, I found $2,000 in a wallet and promptly handed it in to the local police station.

I can be too brutally honest which my psychiatrist says is not always necessary.

If I told the truth about how hard my life feels then I would imagine people would get sick of me and leave me. And it can be overwhelming for them.

 

[scout86]

@Ms Spock what you're describing there doesn't register with me as "lying". That's "Playing The Game". Somehow that seems different. I guess when I visualize those situations, I don't visualize "lying" as much as focusing on guessing "what they want to hear". (I, personally, never had to worry about doing that with my father.)

If I told the truth about how hard my life feels then I would imagine people would get sick of me and leave me. And it can be overwhelming for them.

Are you the one who often says, "Feelings are not facts?" (I can't remember, but I love that line.) What we have there, I think, is a "feeling". I'm not so sure it's an actual fact. But, I know the feeling!

You've given me some insights into where the "anti-lying" stuff might come from. Thanks!

 

[ms spock]

@Ms Spock what you're describing there doesn't register with me as "lying". That's "Playing The Game". Somehow that seems different. I guess when I visualize those situations, I don't visualize "lying" as much as focusing on guessing "what they want to hear". (I, personally, never had to worry about doing that with my father.)

Lying is so automatic in those situations, for me anyway. It IS lying. But your point about playing the game bears thought and consideration.

Are you the one who often says, "Feelings are not facts?" (I can't remember, but I love that line.) What we have there, I think, is a "feeling". I'm not so sure it's an actual fact. But, I know the feeling!

I might be one of the ones, who have said that. And you are correct it is a feeling.

You've given me some insights into where the "anti-lying" stuff might come from. Thanks!

I am not sure what you mean by this.

But I have lied so as not to feel the shame of what I am feeling, later on I can look and see, they must have known I was lying, how embarrassing. I don't do it to be awful. It is an ingrained avoidance practice that I need to work on, am working on.

 

[Sandstone]

I've always been "excessively" honest - can't deal with the guilt of knowing I've been given too much change, regard taking a pen from work as theft, and I was made desperately miserable when required to lie in my job.

But I'm also capable of lying by omission, to make my life easier - agreeing to go somewhere I know I cant manage, and then just not turning up, and not telling anyone when I'm struggling, so this is giving me food for thought.

it seem like, in my brain, there's a disconnect between "telling people what they want to hear" and "lying". Now that I'm thinking about it, I can see where, now and then, in telling someone what they want to hear, you might also be telling them a lie. This is good stuff and I might spend the rest of the day considering that one!

 

[kagamine]

I think it's an interesting point. I was always excessively moral, felt extremely bad doing bad things. I held a lot of guilt and therefore always tried to be "good" I didn't cheat, steal, or lie about anything with actual connection or consequence, or outright. I did however, become very good at lying by omission and telling stories that were believable but completely false. I guess it was mostly during my abuse, but I would lie everyday about what was happening to me, by saying that nothing was happening. It made me feel like my image of being okay was being maintained when nobody knew what was happening to me at all including my day to day activities. I would tell people I went to the store that day when I hadn't or similar small talk with no value or significance.

Eventually though, as I got older and away from my abusers, I started to feel guilty about it. So, I don't anymore, I don't lie, white or not. If the truth isn't appropriate or comfortable, then you don't have to say anything. I know it isn't that simple for everyone with that problem but it was that thought that changed my whole mindset.

 

[scout86]

I am not sure what you mean by this.

What I meant was where MY hatred of lying and liars comes from.

It probably comes from lots of places. But, my mother plays that "game" where she wants something, (I get that much of a clue.) She won't tell me what it is. Then she says something like, "Just do what you want to do." But I know perfectly well that she REALLY expects me to do what SHE wants me to do, only I have to guess at it and guess right. And, I pretty much never guess "right" because, by her definition (near as I can tell) whatever I guess IS wrong, by definition. Any attempt to point any of this out gets, "You didn't understand correctly, that's not what I meant." as a response.

This is kind of on my mind right now because, a week ago, I finally figured out that she might literally be mentally ill. (I'm a little slow figuring that out.) I passionately hate it when she starts down that game playing road. I feel the same about people who lie to manipulate. What you mentioned, lying to avoid shame, I guess I categorize that in the broad category "lying to save your life". That I get and it doesn't bother me, except to make me sad that anyone feels the need to do it in the first place. Lies told to trick someone are, somehow, different.

There might be some kind of black & white thinking going on with me too. It's either the truth or it's a lie? Maybe that's not a good way to look at it. But I'm thinking now, that it reminds me of "The Game" somehow, and maybe that's why I react to it as strongly as I do.

 

[Sandstone]

my mother plays that "game" where she wants something, (I get that much of a clue.) She won't tell me what it is. Then she says something like, "Just do what you want to do." But I know perfectly well that she REALLY expects me to do what SHE wants me to do, only I have to guess at it and guess right. And, I pretty much never guess "right" because, by her definition (near as I can tell) whatever I guess IS wrong, by definition. Any attempt to point any of this out gets, "You didn't understand correctly, that's not what I meant." as a response.

I didn't know other mothers played exactly that game too. And I can recognise that the need to be truthful comes from growing up in that environment.

 

[scout86]

@stenni ......neither did I. I'm sorry yours did/does. But it's kind of amazing to hear, at the same time. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[ms spock]

What I meant was where MY hatred of lying and liars comes from.

I understand now, more of your comments and why your therapist said what your therapist said.

But, my mother plays that "game" where she wants something, (I get that much of a clue.) She won't tell me what it is. Then she says something like, "Just do what you want to do." But I know perfectly well that she REALLY expects me to do what SHE wants me to do, only I have to guess at it and guess right. And, I pretty much never guess "right" because, by her definition (near as I can tell) whatever I guess IS wrong, by definition. Any attempt to point any of this out gets, "You didn't understand correctly, that's not what I meant." as a response.

This is sheer crazy making shit. Like that is sheer madness.

Can you turn the tables and say well you said for me to do what i want to do, either speak up and say what you really think at the time, because otherwise you didn't say what you wanted and I am not a mind reader. That is crazy making shit @scout86

This is kind of on my mind right now because, a week ago, I finally figured out that she might literally be mentally ill. (I'm a little slow figuring that out.) I passionately hate it when she starts down that game playing road.

I can imagine. My parents played mindgames like this and it was most unhelpful and drove me crazy.

I feel the same about people who lie to manipulate. What you mentioned, lying to avoid shame, I guess I categorize that in the broad category "lying to save your life".

It is still manipulation. Lying to avoid shame, being beaten, shamed, harassed etc It is still manipulation. It is not with the intent to hurt someone or mess with their heads. It is a knee jerk response replicating a particular childish interaction with my parents. I am trying to be more aware of what I do so I can change it.

That I get and it doesn't bother me, except to make me sad that anyone feels the need to do it in the first place. Lies told to trick someone are, somehow, different.

The whole messing with someone's head stuff boggles my mind. It is really cruel and crazy making. My parents did it a lot and it was pretty unbearable a lot of the time.

They did the Black is White and Black is White thing.

There might be some kind of black & white thinking going on with me too. It's either the truth or it's a lie? Maybe that's not a good way to look at it. But I'm thinking now, that it reminds me of "The Game" somehow, and maybe that's why I react to it as strongly as I do.

I am not surprised the you react to "The Game" in the way that you do and that lying is so hard to be around.

I am too brutally honest at times, and I say to my psychiatrist that I would say that and she says that is too brutally honest. So I am all over the place with it.

The cover up, the lies, the silence about child abuse really makes me mad/pushes my buttons.