Odd Adult Son Tormenting Daughter

[Justmehere]

This would be tough and likely lead to just about any couple to fight about. You are not a waste of space. You are a strong and compassionate father and husband who is doing the best he can with what he has. You, your wife, your other kids could all use some more support through this and I hope that is your primary focus now.

Have you considered connecting up with your local NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) chapter? My mother has a sister who does very abusive things and has a mental illness as well. A NAMI family support group really helped my mother gain more support and strength to hold good boundaries with her sister. She went herself. I have gone to a NAMI family to family support group for friends and family members of someone with a mental illness, and I heard stories a lot like yours. Parents struggling to hold boundaries against a son or daughter in denial about their abusive actions. The sons and daughters of these different parents all had different mental illnesses - everything from ODD to schizophrenia to bipolar to addictions... But there was still a shared struggle of when to kick the kid out and how to stay strong through it. It seemed to help parents a lot to connect with other people about this stuff. For me, it helped me hold my own boundaries with my aunt. Not all groups are the same. It's just one option for more support. And it's usually free.

 

[Raj]

No support, many of our family and local law enforcement thinks counselling is bull. I don't see any options, I am christian and pray about all this. My ptsd is so bad I trust no one in real life!

Raj

 

[StarChild]

Why is this even a question?

Why not? Everyone has the right to reach out and looking for help here on the board. And answers like the above rather have the potential to alienate or even chase people away. Instead of creating a safe atmosphere where one can reach out, without having to fear blame / resentment in comments. And sometimes, @Dee Morris it really is worth the effort to first look into someone's posting history, before giving an answer.... That helps to get the proper picture of that person, before you just issue commands like this:

It's YOUR job to

If Raj weren't aware of his "job" / responsibility, he wouldn't have turned to this forum, asking for help. Wouldn't he?...

Just my two cents.

 

[Justmehere]

No support, many of our family and local law enforcement thinks counselling is bull.

Doing what you have always done is likely to get the results you have always gotten. Maybe it's time to try something new and reach out for help from people other than family and law enforcement.

 

[ms spock]

Wife used to be verbally abusive she actually sought treatment and is no longer that way, she even takes time out and ask if she was out of line.

Raj

So you are a family that works on their stuff. This is pretty impressive. This doesn't happen in many families.

 

[ms spock]

I do feel for you that you have to struggle with these issues.

I don't know anything about OD. I can't imagine how hard it is for you to make these decisions that exclude your son from your home.

My father sexually abused me and my grandmother said I could stay there but of course my father could always come in the house because he was her son. So of course I couldn't stay there. The damage from that, to me today, is still huge. I wasn't worth fighting for or protecting.

Your son most likely will never change - that early intervention stuff before ten or early teens is so important, it just doesn't happen enough. (And you did make him have counseling when he was younger, so you tired.) It is most cost effective in the long run, but people don't look of the emotional, physical and economic costs of it in a serious way. If he is not even trying, well there will be no change.

I think @Dee Morris saying what she said, is important, as it is the backup people need to stand up for that stuff in real life. I wish someone had said something like that to my mother, instead of telling her to stay with her husband or telling her that she had no choices or whatever was said. They were Catholics and marriage is a sacrament where all types and varieties violence and abuse can take place.

I also think that @TreeHugger is on the money here as well. Talking people through these types of very difficult situations can bring out people with much insight, advice and knowledge, that I don't have to give. I wish I had something to say that was more meaningful. Compassion is also terribly important, so as people don't feel attacked and withdraw or just give up. It is a fine line, because you don't want to enable people, but you don't want to kick them when they are down as well. Even if someone is not hearing you but is talking to you, or is highly reactive and talking to you, it can plant seeds for later on.

Holding these realities are so hard.

I really do wish you the best @Raj.

 

[Queen Boudica]

I would advise that your daughter and younger son see a psychologist to have advocates for themselves and talk about this with someone independent. Your wife if she is defending the elder son, is not going to be a safe person for her kids to confide in and if your kids are seeing you both arguing about this they may not want to confide in either of you BECUASE they are afraid if they do they will cause more arguments.

I think you and your wife need some kind of counselling on how to handle the elder boy. Your wife probably is in denial and she needs an experienced therapist with good knowledge of ODD to set her straight about how boundaries are important and the safety of the younger kids is utmost. And I mean a strong therapist not one of those who will excuse his behaviour as just teenage behaviour. If your wife cannot accept that the safety of the kids is important then I think that you need to act. She chooses the elder son then she can live with him, but the younger kids are in your custody. Safety of the kids is utmost here. But I think first try the counselling as your wife is obviously struggling with this. He is her son, but unfortunately he is also ODD and a huge risk and the best thing is to put in those boundaries. She helps no-one by being weak and allowing this to continue.

 

[Anarchy]

I would advise that your daughter and younger son see a psychologist to have advocates for themselves and talk about this with someone independent.

That is an excellent point.
In my own childhood there was a huge amount of confusion in my mind, between the crap I was receiving from people whom my parents told me were "nice" or had my best interests at heart - and of course my parents told me that they knew best... So I interpretted any doubts which I had as me being "bad" or "ungrateful".

Your wife if she is defending the elder son, is not going to be a safe person for her kids to confide in and if your kids are seeing you both arguing about this they may not want to confide in either of you BECUASE they are afraid if they do they will cause more arguments.

Or the kids internalize and blame themselves for the parents arguing.

Raj,
how old is the ODD diagnosis, and how much faith do you have in its correctness and completeness?

but people don't look of the emotional, physical and economic costs of it in a serious way. If he is not even trying, well there will be no change.

:hug: I know what you mean, and believe that you are right, but I've just got to be nerdy about this.

The idea of an "economic" field that is somehow seperate from the rest of life, should have disappeared in the early 1870s when Carl Menger, William Stanley Jevons and Leon Walras, independently and simultanaeously came up with "subjective marginal utility" as a theory of value. The cost of any action is the alternatives which you give up by taking that action.

 

[ms spock]

Violence included hitting brother forvnot groping an breaking my ribs during verbal argument.

And he is touching your daughter in a creepy way! ***sighs***

@Lizio is right the other two children should have independent counseling so if he is doing things during supervised access, it does happen, then at least they have someone to confide in. And someone to advocate on their behalf. If your 19 year old son threatens them or coerces them, they might "ask" for access as to avoid harm to you and your wife.

Public mall access only - you wife shouldn't go alone though, even in public.

 

[Raj]

Something really bothering me is my wife saying "were disowning" him. It is like the fact the that he is in denial allows her to be in denial. My daughter was in tears last night when we told her he would not be able come over and buly her any more. He didn't care at all. My younger son is in denial too. He at least does not want to talk about this.

Raj

 

[The Albatross]

I would rebut it with "we are creating a safe environment with boundaries"... Disowning someone is permanent. Unsafe behaviors can not be downplayed or ignored... nor is a behavior deemed permanent... safety is first, Behavior change or not is up to him.

 

[Lucycat]

Is it only your other children who are at risk or is he a risk to the public at large? Sorry, this is not meant to cause offense but it is worrying and I wonder what supervision he has on a day to day basis.