Structural Dissociation?

[Chava]

Have not been told specifically that I do this, but it makes a lot of sense (if I understand it at all).

I don't dissociate in ways that create amnesia. I don't relate to DID but definitely relate to being split up and fragmented in ways I can't get together. My personality and what I present is absolutely "normal" most of the time and also irritatingly avoidant...like I can't get out of my carefully-constructed bubble. But my body is often right in a trauma state. I can also feel very weak, young, mute, and immobilized in my body, but come on here and ramble in written words and sound like semi-coherent and reasonable (though panicked) adult. It's the act of somehow pulling it all together and resolving the trauma from this place of being split that is so challenging.

 

[Hope4Now]

In a desperate bid for intellectual control of all this mess I've landed in, I've read a lot about structural dissociation...thanks to some other folks who pointed me in that direction (@Eleanor and @Pencil and @Pietro :)). I have yet to really wrap my head around it, but I found this page to be enormously helpful: Link Removed, especially the differences between Other Specified Dissociative Disorder (which used to be DID Nos) and Dissociative Identity Disorder. Especially the part that explains that in some people EPs can take over executive control and mimic DID. And it helps explain why some of us can be so highly functional and productive sometimes.

@Eleanor, I was glad to have your link. And you too, @Lucycat. Thank you for posting.

 

[Eleanor]

It is SO SO hard to know what to DO about this - and it is so terribly confusing. How can I be one way at one time (adult, effective goal driven) and then at others, when no one is around, just FALL APART totally. Not just natural let down, but can't keep a thought from one room to the next. Find myself in essentially different motivational states three times in an hour. Example: I start laundry. I am very keen to get the laundry done. I go into the other room. The laundry buzzes. I hear it. I don't get up. I not only don't care about the laundry (25 minutes later) I feel kind of resentful about it. I ignore it. I go back through the laundry room a half hour later. I see there is laundry being done. I walk right past. I come back in "LAUNDRY! Hey I want to get that done" and switch to the dryer. Rinse repeat.... No trauma per se, just structural dissociation. I am at two (or maybe three) with myself. I remember (sort of) stuff, but there is not affective continuity. If that makes any sense. This makes making lists almost completely useless. My EP's hate lists. If I put something on a list they ABSOLUTELY won't do it. This is perverse. Almost no one in my 3D life gets this.

No one where I work would believe this for a second, by the way. It took years of living with me (an infuriating process I am sure, quite apart from me triggering him) and then learning about SD for my H to "get" it. But it is the only model that makes sense of what he sees and I experience. The only way to integrate the EP's and the ANP is to let the EP's out tho, and give them experiences and an opportunity to calibrate and integrate. If the EP's are stuck in trauma... that adds a level of major difficulty.

On a hopeful note it seems to me from here that the process is a cumulative one, meaning that it gets easier and quicker as you go along. "Very slowly and then all at once." Once the EP's can "listen in" on what is going on when the ANP is up, and then come out and assimilate it... it seems to go much quicker. At least it has for us...

I guess one way to tell the story of my H and his PTSD recovery is that once he had processed the BIG traumas from his childhood (Five or six major ones) and then a lot a lot of little ones, AND we found a T who the EP's liked and were comfortable with and would listen to, he got a LOT more stable. We still have "flare ups" these days (last few months) but are getting much quicker at recovering...

I on the other hand am still waiting "for the other shoe to drop" and him to have a huge melt down again. When this stops... I don't know.

 

[Eleanor]

OH, and unless they SEE the switching - T's and Pdocs are at a real ... disadvantage seems to mild a way to put it ... can't possibly reliably diagnose this. Our couple's T has SEEN my H when he is good and when he is bad. The Bad H has shown up a number of times. He flipped in and out once in a session. He started good and got bad once. So the T SAW it. Welcome to my world.

I think it is very unusual for that to happen. But if you LIVE with someone... you can't avoid it.

 

[Lucycat]

But if you LIVE with someone... you can't avoid it.

You are right it cannot be avoided. However Rory sees it in me- when the EP is 'out to play' and will shout at me to stop behaving like a child. But I can't . At those times I am a child.

It is really hard, but understanding what is happening certainly helps. I thought I was going mad. I just wish Rory would be more understanding. I have told him that at these times I need a hug not a reprimand. Maybe one day.

 

[Eleanor]

If my theory is right, @Lucycat and you and Rory picked each other ... he likely has some degree of SD too. But his EP's don't get to come out and play. :cry: It may be worth fiddling around with the hypothesis.

My H has an ANGRY :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: EP. Moi? I don't do anger. Ever. Or didn't.:nailbiting: His angry EP is settling down. Or rather, it wasn't really anger at all, it turned out, it was PANIC - attachment abandonment issues... but looked for all the world like anger to me. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: I have grown into the ability to now get somewhat pissed. And even had a couple of days when I was legitimately grumpy.

A dubious accomplishment.:meh: But important... :grumpy:

 

[Hope4Now]

@Eleanor, I love your example of the laundry. It describes almost exactly and in a concrete way what happens to me functionally when I get what I called "scrambled." (and congratulations on being grumpy! I get that that's an accomplishment).

@shimmerz and @Eleanor and @Lucycat and anybody else who has a grasp on this SD thing...I have questions about your own experiences if you're willing to describe. If not, that's okay. And Shimmerz, I don't want to hijack your post! It's just that I posted these same kind of questions in a thread a while back but probably didn't articulate them very well. You could respond there if you're willing. https://www.myptsd.com/threads/questions-about-dissociation.50026/

I don't even know why I want to know all this so much. It just seems so important to me to understand what is going on with me because some of the stuff that happens is really different from flashbacks or body memories and I cannot seem to be able to find the words to describe my lived experience to my therapist.

 

[shimmerz]

I don't even know why I want to know all this so much.

I used to get blasted by my therapists about 'wanting to know'. Too bad....I couldn't help it. Like a driving need. I am glad I did now. 8 years and I didn't know about this until I found it. Wow!

Happy to answer any questions. Not sure why but the info in this thread scrambled my brain around a bit so I am sitting back before I read it and can't really respond with any type of intelligence until I do. Thanks for your patience.

BTW - I don't consider the thread hijacked at all. I appreciate the conversation about all of this. Now if only I had a brain today to take it in! :meh:

 

[Eleanor]

Can't guarantee coherent answers... but Question Away!

 

[Eleanor]

In answer to your questions on the other thread...

"1. If you have DID, or DID-NOS (I forget what the DSM-V now calls it), are you ALWAYS in a part, or do you ever feel like you're not? Or is it just impossible to really know because there are so many parts and it's just one of the apparently normal ones in the driver's seat?

2. Do you always forget what you did when you're in a part, or can/do you have some kind of separate awareness of what you're doing without always being able to change or control it?

3. Are you aware to any extent that there are other parts of yourself even if you can't or are afraid to engage with them?

4. Is it possible to have multiple parts that don't show themselves for many years because they're so deeply controlled by the apparently normal part?"

Never been diagnosed by a professional as any kind of DDNOS or SD. And likely never will be because my ANP is always ALWAYS in control in public. Always. Period. My H says 'You have no "tells."" Meaning even when dying of illness I look and act fine. Fine.

I can remember ... maybe "recall" is a better word... what happened in different states but sometimes with more difficulty than others. And information from one state will not always "file" correctly with another. So my H and I had a conversation about getting a new kitten. He apparently said "in the spring" but I either missed that or interpreted it as "now" (iris are blooming, that makes it spring right?) Anyway I've no recollection at all of that right now. He used to get really triggered by my "not listening to him" when what was really happening was I would "hear" him in one state, and then lose that information or instruction when I switched to another. It always happened in stressful situations (surprise surprise). Now he knows there are parts. Sometimes I can recall stuff ONLY with a lot of effort. Mostly I just have to try and it is ... fuzzy. Don't know what the EP's would say exactly... They are getting more access.

My H was way more dissociated than I (or so I think) and initially an EP would come up and he would be in the wrong decade, and use only information from, say, the early 90's (before he knew me). It actually was easier then, because it clearly had nothing to do with me. It took a while for him to remember what my name was in those states initially. It was VERY upsetting as the EP's got "caught up" and could access current information - which got used against me in very hurtful ways in several instances. Now all the bits seem to be in contact mostly most of the time. He also reports the "fuzziness."

I think I am aware of all the parts. I am not sure I have always been tho.

I absolutely think there are bits that will hide for years. In my case it would be because it wasn't safe to come out. The control thing goes both ways tho. When I was a young adult I had a pattern of getting into a relationship, falling in love (genuinely) and then one day, out of the blue I'd be "done." I just flat out didn't feel attached or attracted or anything anymore. And I'd break up. It was awful for the guys. It was confusing as hell for me, but I didn't notice for long as I would be on to the next. One of my EP's was, I now believe, pulling the strings back then. Get too close and she/I'd say "Nope, sorry, throwing the off switch on this. Too dangerous. I'm out of here before you are." Makes sense NOW. Just looked like I was an asshole then.

 

[Hope4Now]

I don't consider the thread hijacked at all. I appreciate the conversation about all of this.

:) Thanks.

I used to get blasted by my therapists about 'wanting to know'.

Yes, me too. Well, not so much blasted as gently chided to stop overthinking. I can't help it. One (?) of my ANPs/EPs? is what I call The Thinker. I am compelled to learn as much as possible about whatever topic it is that captures my interest. I think he thinks I'm a bit obsessive. I suppose I am. But I like to think of it as being "thorough" and "well-educated" and having balanced knowledge from different points of view.

When you feel unscrambled sometime, I would love to hear more of your thoughts on all this stuff. It does scramble one's brain. Phenomenology not just in theory, but in lived experience. Makes my head hurt.

Thank you for answering, @Eleanor!

Never been diagnosed by a professional as any kind of DDNOS or SD. And likely never will be because my ANP is always ALWAYS in control in public. Always. Period. My H says 'You have no "tells."" Meaning even when dying of illness I look and act fine. Fine.

I absolutely think there are bits that will hide for years. In my case it would be because it wasn't safe to come out

This...these two things together...are one of the things that confuses me about myself. Used to always manage to just keep going...even through broken bones. (Except high fevers will bring me down.)
Something happens to me now when I go to therapy sometimes, and often when I am alone, that I can't seem to control (even though part of me says it is all my fault and believes I can control it even though I can't always). I think because some of my inner children or exiles or whatever feel like my therapist is safe, and sometimes they win out over the ANP(s) these days. The kinds of things that happen now never happened before in my life. I am aware of it. I don't understand it. It freaks me out. But almost always, there is some level of awareness going on and I have fuzzy memory that might miss bits, but memory.

Also @Eleanor, That must have been very painful with your husband as the EPs hurt you. Ouch. No wonder your EPs don't feel safe...constant crisis alert.
Also interesting that when I was a teen and young adult, I had extremely similar experiences in relationships. I feel very guilty for hurting the people I left behind in seemingly sudden and confusing ways. In fact, your interpretation is making me realize there was a lot of stuff that I did and experienced that seemed very "out-of-character"...enough that people used to say things. I always thought I was just eccentric, weird, awful, whatever. Maybe thinking about my life through this lens makes things make slightly more sense.

 

[Eleanor]

Physical dissociation is second nature to my H and I. He went to a friend's playoff party two weeks ago - he was really too sick to go. He went right at the beginning so he could just "put in an appearance" and leave. He got there and... it is not that he felt better, it is that he no longer noticed that he felt so crappy, and stayed for hours. Later than me! We both teach, and we almost never miss, and have both regularly taught (and seemed FINE) and not noticed how sick we were until class ended, even though as we were walking up to class we each thought things like "sensible people stay home when they are this sick..."

I think it is good that the EP's come out. Weird. Distressing but good. They have to exercised (in the sense of push ups, not in the sense of demons) to get "worked in." They have to activate to integrate.

Thank you for sharing that you had similar experiences. I kind of thought I was unique. I'm sorry I'm not, but ... it is good to know it's not only me. I sometimes entertain the thought that I should track them down and apologize. One in particular I feel really really badly about. He was such a super guy. :(

"Out of character." Exactly.