General So Why Did I Use The Words "always Watchful" Instead Of Hypervigilant

[Deleted member 28812]

Some people feel offended because I used the words "always watchful" because of hypervigilant. I'll try to explain but I won't say I am sorry because I am not and I don't want to lie.

My husband likes it better when I say he is protective or watchful because it sounds less like "he is sick". I have been involved in similar discussions before when I was a member of a PTSD sufferers and supporters support group and I have been using words my husband likes better and some people chose to feel offended over them.

You might say it is offensive to be called watchful... but I ment no harm and I have been called a "baby murderer's whore" (because of my husbands service) and sucked it up, never told him because I did not want him to be sad.

So if I can suck up this... I don't know why I should tell you sufferers I am sorry. I never tried to hurt you on purpose I tried to help another spouse. My intentions have been good and I am not sorry.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Someone *here*?....

I take no offense to word choice. Seems stupid to me. Sort of like when people get their panties in a bunch over the supporter/sufferer nomenclature here. It is nothing more than a means of identification but some just want a bone to pick.

What is this really? A distraction from working on healing, nothing more, nothing less. Let those people get pissed about inconsequential stuff. You have bigger fish to fry. Let them worry about a word when you're out there actually SUPPORTING!

 

[Kintsugi]

I have no idea what thread you are referring to here, but I don't think someone else gets to decide what diction everyone in the world needs to use regarding symptoms.

Some people like to say they "check out" instead of "dissociate." I like clinical terms. I find comfort in them. But I don't think anyone should mandate others' expessions. I mean. Really.

You know, Lemontree, again, I don't know what thread you are referring to, and maybe I'm missing something, but I'm going to go ahead and say that when people get offended by the benign choices of others, it has more to do with the person who takes offense and a lot less to do with the supposed offending statement.

I identify as a victim of sexual abuse. I don't like using the supposedly empowering term "survivor." I actually take offense when people try to push the word "survivor" on me. But it has little to do with them wanting to use the term and everything to do with my own perceptions and how I choose to identify myself, and I know that, so I try not to get miffed and just go on my way.

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

I saw the original thread this thought sprang from - I don't know if it was as big an "offense" as it might have seemed. It is SOO easy for things to be "lost in translation" when just a short text.... :)

Something to consider, most people here actually suffer from PTSD, so if as a rule they (we) tend to be "hyper vigilant" it also stands to reason that certain words could trigger that "feeling offended" even if it wasn't meant that way .. I think we just need to work extra hard to have grace for one another in these chat streams :) :)

To your OP, my man is "hyper vigilant" too .. and I don't see this as him being "sick" as much as he has LEARNED to be watchful, because he knows first-hand far more of the "evil" in the world than others, or than I do ..

When it is more of a "fear" of attack and there is no real threat, that's one thing. But we can also learn to DISCERN between what is a real threat, and what is irrational fear. So that's what we focus on - being more discerning/wise in each specific situation.

I have always said my man is "fiercely protective of me" .. and I really VALUE this about him! It's one big way I have confidence of his love for me. AND when we can't be together, I have greater peace that he's alert to things that could be a threat to him, and he takes steps to protect himself. Which I appreciate, cuz I can't always protect him, either. :) :(

 

[Justmehere]

To some it is twelve, to others it is a dozen. I think your intent behind the word choice of watchful is really great. I personally don't take offense to the use of either word.

I don't see any problem wih watchful replacing the word hypervigalent, or vice versa.

I think the issue on that thread was probably a little bit of a language thing, and not really about the use of the word "watchful" but your statement that people with PTSD are watchful of germs.

If you had said people with PTSD are hypervigalent about germs - people likely would have still disagreed with you on that statement too.

Not all people with PTSD are watchful/hypervigalent, not all people are watchful/hypervigalent all the time, and the things we are watchful/hypervigalent about vary from person to person.

As it was said on the thread, your statment was over generalized. It was not a bad word choice, but the overly broad statment about germs.

It might be more accurate to say that a lot of people with PTSD are watchful, and that some of them are watchful about germs.

That would be a more accurate an less generalized statment.

Do you see the difference?

It was clear in the thread that you meant no harm, no judgement, no offense either. You apologized and if others are offended, or disagree, I hope they explain their viewpoint more to you so you can better understand what they disagree with you about.

It seems like a simple misunderstanding on both sides. This is an international forum with people coming from very diverse backgrounds, and misunderstandings are bound to happen from time to time. Try to see it as a chance to learn and not let it get to you too much. You have great input here, just like those who disagreed with your statement. @Lemontree. :hug:

 

[pepper_e]

My two cents: I think it's a mindset issue here one person may feel they have "survived" something so they identify with that word. Some people may view it completely different and see themselves as the "victim" of a crime and identify themselves that way.

Personally hypervigilant seems mildly off-putting, and "always watchful" or "always mindful" seems like a far more respectful way of saying the same thing.

We all come from different backgrounds and different upbrings words are as personal as our memories, words may hold significance to some, while others use it casually.

Words are just that words. It is the person that matters, not the adverbs, or adjectives of the nouns we describe.

 

[shimmerz]

It think it was the 'people with PTSD are always watchful of germs', which is simply not true which I think was being pointed out. Given that English is your second language, I can see how mistakes happen, but I don't think it was about the 'always watchful phrase'.

 

[StarChild]

As it was said on the thread, your statment was over generalized.

It might be more accurate to say that a lot of people with PTSD are watchful, and that some of them are watchful about germs. That would be a more accurate an less generalized statment. Do you see the difference?

It think it was the 'people with PTSD are always watchful of germs', which is simply not true which I think was being pointed out.

Yes, yes, yes! The bold terms is exactly what I was referring to, when I quoted and commented on the the following from the other thread:

People with PTSD feel always watchful and germs are scary.

@Lemontree, it was not the term "watchful" which irritated me, but that those two separate facts (of which each one in itself is true) got "tied together". Although, in review, I find it interesting, that (only) the first part of what I quoted was noticed and the other part was overlooked by quite a few readers. And I really don't mean this in an ironic way; It's truly interesting to me, how the brain works and filters information.

By the way, it was very respectful of you, @Lemontree, to create a new thread, to discuss this further, instead of letting the other thread go off rail. :tup:

 

[joeylittle]

@Lemontree, the problem had nothing to do with your word choice regarding "always watchful".

You said this:

My husband is really into cleanness - especially cleanness of the shower because he is afraid of germs. People with PTSD feel always watchful and germs are scary. You do not see them but they threaten your family.

The problem here is that you are generalizing. I think it's very likely this is a translation issue, but might not be, which is why people responded.

Always watchful (hypervigilant) is one of many possible symptoms of PTSD. In any mental health diagnosis, there are things that must be, and things that might be. Hypervigilance is a "might be", or possible, symptom.

This phrase:
"People with PTSD feel always watchful and germs are scary"
reads, in English, as:
"Everyone with PTSD is always-watchful/hypervigilant, and also, everyone with PTSD is afraid of germs."

And that's not true. Not everyone with diagnosed PTSD has hypervigilance. And not everyone with PTSD is afraid of germs because they are a threat to the family.

Simple example: I used to be hypervigilant. Now I'm not so much. Still sometimes, but would not call it enough to be a symptom, really. I do not have a family, and am not afraid of germs. However, I definitely have PTSD.

I hope this helps explain. In the future, just avoid the phrase "people with PTSD" and you will be just fine. If you want to say "my experience with my husband", that's much better.

 

[joeylittle]

Ah, @TreeHugger, we posted at the same time! Sorry, @Lemontree, for the doubling-up. :)

 

[Deleted member 28812]

Thanks for your input.
I did n ot want to say that everybody with PTSD was afraid of germs. What I wanted to say was that two things were true:
1) People with PTSD experience hypervigilance and 2) Germs are scary which leads to 3) A person might feel the need to protect his or her family from germs.

@joeylittle : In my culture it is seen as impolite to be longwinded and wordsy along the lines of "Well, I dunno, there are some people for which X is true but then there are other for whom it is not true... and maybe this and maybe that and actually I don't know while on the one hand this but one the other hand that", because the person reading this might think "What now? Yes or No" and might feel that his or her time was being wasted... and I have to say that this culture is even more pronounced in the military (in our military. It might be very different in other countries).

So I always thought trying to be not to longwinded on this boards would be a good thing and respectful - especially of the Vets... but if everybody agrees I should rather be more longwinded but mke clear that I am talking only about some people but not other I will do this.

 

[joeylittle]

@Lemontree, not long-winded; just not inadvertently generalizing. This:

1) People with PTSD experience hypervigilance

Implies "all people". And as we've established, Hypervigilance is only one of six possible symptoms in Criterion E (alterations in arousal and activity). A person with PTSD must show at least two, and may show all six.

1. Irritable or aggressive behavior
2. Self-destructive or reckless behavior
3. Hypervigilance
4. Exaggerated startle response
5. Problems in concentration
6. Sleep disturbance

It's not long-winded to say "Some people with PTSD experience hypervigilance". We added the word "some". You're right, people who are over-explainers (like me) can tend to use too many words. But I want to be clear: I'm talking about avoiding generalization, that's all.

Why are we so touchy? It's a complicated diagnosis and can be mistaken for other things. Many people struggled to find the right diagnosis. We are big on not spreading mis-information.