Tonic Immobility

[shimmerz]

I was updating my MedicAlert bracelet and am inputting this as one of my conditions.

http://digest.bps.org.uk/2011/10/when-humans-play-dead.html

This topic hasn't been spoken about on the forum recently and I just wondered if it was time to revive it. I suffered, up until recently, from Catatonia (daily). It has also been referred to as Tonic Immobility and I am not certain whether to input Catatonia or Tonic Immobility as my condition in my profile. Not sure if there is a difference between the two. I am finding mixed reviews on this. Here is what I found on Tonic Immobility.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1516-44462014005031267&script=sci_arttext

I am just wondering if anyone else suffers from this type of behaviour. If so, do they know why? Does anyone know the difference (if any) between the two conditions?

 

[shimmerz]

Looks like I found the answer about the difference between tonic immobility and catatonia. Tonic immobility is an animal response whereas catatonia is a human response.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15482070

 

[illusionist]

Sounds very similar to what I've experienced.....and been described as a corpse. Very interesting what Anthony says on the other thread.......I've done it for years..as a kid I was slapped round the head when I did it, so I suppose I was trained to come out of it myself. But during sexual intercourse, as an adult, I seemed to get stuck in it for some reason until it was over with. Nice to know my foster parents taught me a coping skill there!

 

[Justmehere]

Actually, I think Tonic Immobility might be the better choice. It is used for humans in clinic settings (http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medl...tonic_immobility:_measurement_and_correlates_). For emergency medicine professionals, Tonic Immobility has the connotation of a fear response while catatonia is more commonly associated with schizophrenia and etc. They also can look differently. Catatonia can sometimes include repetitive motions and bursts of violent behavior. The emergency medical staff that would be relying on medic alert info may know you don't have schizophrenia, but they will still have an underlying understanding of catatonia as it fits for people with schizophrenia, rather than PTSD. In an ER setting, in the hands of ER staff who are not super informed on the psychological effects of trauma and PTSD, I think you will be treated a lot better if you have Tonic Immobility listed, rather than Catatonia. They will likely have to look up Tonic Immobility and will get more info that is more accurate to someone suffering from PTSD.


ETA (Edited To Add):

I have struggled with this since I was a kid. I would get in trouble for it too - which only motivated me to cope in self destructive ways as a kid to avoid ever getting into that state. Since I was a teenager, it's been misdiagnosed as everything under the sun (until I finally saw professionals who knew about trauma.) Sometimes the misdiagnosis came with very awful consequences. It's smart to put it on your Medic Alert info. I have it on my own emergency medical info too.

For me, it is my dissociation at it's most extreme. Someone can poke me with sharp objects, and I will still not respond. It used to be very bad and triggered somewhat easily. Now it takes a new severe traumatic event to bring this on, and even then it's rare.

 

[shimmerz]

For emergency medicine professionals, Tonic Immobility has the connotation of a fear response while catatonia is more commonly associated with schizophrenia and etc. They also can look differently.

This is brilliant! You have no idea! Thank you for this.

 

[Hope4Now]

Hmmm. Thank you for this information. Another bit of puzzle of my life falls into place.

This has only happened to me a few times that I can remember, mostly as an adult. I've never really understood what happened to me. Several times when dealing with a medical thing, and once most profoundly when I thought I was going to be killed by a bear when I was camping in the mountains.

But reading about it now with everything else I've learned about my life, it could explain a confusing and regular experience I had at night for many years as a child. A kind of frozen terror that was overlaid with some really strange internal sensory experiences.

Question for you shimmerz and justmehere: when this happens to you, are you aware on any level? Because unless I faint, I am aware. I can't move or talk and the awareness is pretty blunted, but I'm aware, and I remember what happened as if it was someone else or like a dream. Does that sound the same?

 

[Justmehere]

Question for you shimmerz and justmehere: when this happens to you, are you aware on any level? Because unless I faint, I am aware. I can't move or talk and the awareness is pretty blunted, but I'm aware, and I remember what happened as if it was someone else or like a dream. Does that sound the same?

Much of the time, I am aware - and it's the worst feeling. It's like everything is off in the distance. I know that someone is poking me, trying to get a response, but I can't get myself to respond. Sometimes I can even feel it, but it's weird. It's not quite like normal perception...

Other times, I think dissociative amnesia kicks in and I don't remember it - so I'm not sure how aware I am in the moment during those times. I only know it even happened because other people have simply described me as unresponsive and in that state.

 

[joeylittle]

I've had tonic episodes. They are icky, to say the least.

Just want to give a shout-out to @Justmehere for doing the great info on catatonia. It does drive me a bit buggy that there's an assumption that catatonia is simply "not moving". In fact, it's a rather complicated diagnosis. You need to be manifesting a minimum of three clinical features, of a list of eleven.

Stupor (no psychomotor mobility or relationship to environment) and mutism (little to no verbal response) are the two clinical features that most people associate with it. But only those two will not make you catatonic, diagnostically. And you can even be dealing with catatonia and be agitated. Also, as @Justmehere said, how catatonia is handled and how a tonic episode might be handled. They are more likely to think you are in a tonic seizure, I'd expect, than in a psychotic episode.

There has not yet been enough research in the area, and so the specifics of how it would be handled as a symptom (tonic immobility) are kind of variable. But it would be good for most trauma survivors who get this kind of 'freeze' response to know that it isn't the same thing as being catatonic.

/soapbox

 

[Eleanor]

I think this is related to the not feeling pain thing. ... It is a very primitive response of the FEAR system (the end of the freeze spectrum) the analgesic effect is interesting... wait, you said you don't RESPOND. Does that mean you don't feel the pain? Or just that you can't do anything in response to it?

 

[shimmerz]

when this happens to you, are you aware on any level?

Completely aware. Craziest feeling ever. If you look up locked in syndrome, this is how I feel. People could be talking about taking me off of life support and I wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. My POA's have been directed to make certain I am dead before anyone tries to bury me, it is that bad.

Does that mean you don't feel the pain? Or just that you can't do anything in response to it?

Both I am afraid to say. I know it is happening to me, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I don't feel pain either when I am not in a tonic episode. *heavy sigh* @Hope4Now is there a EPicon in the house?

 

[Sammyiam]

Wow I could have written all of these posts ! I suffer from this all the time.

Much of the time, I am aware - and it's the worst feeling. It's like everything is off in the distance. I know that someone is poking me, trying to get a response, but I can't get myself to respond. Sometimes I can even feel it, but it's weird. It's not quite like normal perception...

Other times, I think dissociative amnesia kicks in and I don't remember it - so I'm not sure how aware I am in the moment during those times. I only know it even happened because other people have simply described me as unresponsive and in that state.

That's what I feel to

 

[Eleanor]

I get the "locked in" thing. I am pretty sure there is a chemical "switch", or maybe this system makes use of the motor "lock out" switch that gets turned on when we sleep.... Sorry, I don't mean to treat this like you are a lab rat, I think it is awful and inconvenient (HAHA understatement of the century) and all manner of other bad that this happens to you. I just... want to understand it. Dog with a bone. (insert dog with bone smilie here)