Tonic Immobility

[Sammyiam]

@Eleanor,

I was like that with the disassociation thread dog with bone thing, I think it just is that someone else feels what you do and it's like

I'm not going crazy see someone else feels this to and it's exactly like me, so that sort of makes me feel ok, ya there are others like me.

Will that's how I feel :D

 

[shimmerz]

@Sammyiam , I hate like hell to say welcome to the club, but well.....
Welcome to the club. The not crazy club!

@Eleanor, to me it feels like an old familiar play. It happened instantaneously and every day, as I mentioned. It was like dissociation on speed. I wouldn't know what the trigger was until after I came out of it, which at times was literally days. What I do know is that my brain was going a mile and minute, searching, searching, searching for an answer. Click, click, click, click, click. Whatever position I was in was the position I would stay in. It was almost like every ounce of energy was being saved to be absolutely still. My friends used to check by putting a mirror under my nose and mouth, they couldn't see a thing, my pulse was non existent. Just the barest of necessities, Then, poof! Answer would come to me as to what triggered me and I would get up like nothing ever happened. Wouldn't skip a beat. It was insane.

 

[Eleanor]

Wow. Really interesting. I was just reading an article that was talking about the basic emotions and ran across this:

"Panksepp also presents evidence for a Seeking System centered in the VTA-to-lateral hypothalamic to mesolimbic–mesocortical projection tracts. I would argue that this system for important reasons, may fall into a special class of one, distinct from the other prototype emotional systems. Without the Seeking System, organisms lose the ability to organize any coherent emotional state. Major lesions in the Seeking System consistently create akinetic mutism and a virtual loss of emotion ( Watt & Pincus, 2004). In these extensive lesion cases, in a direct sense all the prototype states simply disappear, along with virtually any motivated behavior. This suggests that the Seeking System might provide a kind of ‘central trunk line’ for all the prototype emotions. One of the critical questions confronting affective neuroscience is how the specific prototype emotions might obtain transient control of this system." - Watt 2005

In your case "SEEKING" was on, but EVERYTHING ELSE was in FEAR (freeze) until "SEEKING" said, SAFE!

Here is the thing that impresses me; how extraordinarily flexible human beings are in their adaptive development. This strategy kept you alive. Unfortunately the strategy outlived its usefulness... And then you have to develop new connections and habits. Good thing brains are incredibly plastic.

 

[Powder]

Great thread and question. I have thought about the medical bracelet or tag, in case it happens and my kids call 911. My kids can't explain this stuff yet.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but it says to use Tonic Immobility for 'apparent death'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_death

I hope that DSM will be revised someday to have grades of Dissociation so that we could just say DD, grade 3 or whatever. It kind sucks we have to work so hard just to make the med ID.

 

[Chava]

I have a mild version of this (the stupor and mutism and feeling shut in and also immobilized). I think it's from super early trauma and most likely a freeze response (and bodily dissociative)...feels exceptionally frozen.

Since neither is acutely life-threatening, but a very heightened fear response, I'd wonder if you might want to go with what the average medic could understand...most people have heard of catatonia and have an idea what it looks like. I understand tonic immobility but I'm not sure even average medical people come across that term much. Just so they have a general base of understanding if something should go wrong ??? It might be a question for a doc or medic....what language do they use in this case, since the differences might be a little blurry to most people? If you get into a medical situation you can always explain more about the immobility when you are okay, if it's helpful.

Just some thoughts, not sure is helpful or not. I read something recently about our major trauma adaptations. I primarily have freeze and flight responses, a little fight, and almost zero "fawn" responses. Freeze (and dissociation) is most common in early childhood since we don't quite have the other options.

 

[Chava]

p.s I don't have a diagnosable degree of this. When it happened in therapy many years ago the therapist just stared at me for a long time (whole hour? I have no idea) and then sent me to the hospital where I ended up on anti-psychotics. But I wasn't eating, so it was a good time for her to say this wasn't working (convenient). Hospital was horrid. In subsequent therapy I've been my outer self, not talked about anything from way back, and avoided this. Mute or frozen states come up in current therapy and my therapist hasn't just left me there or been freaked out, but kept asking questions (whether I'd answer or not) and work on helping me get grounded. It doesn't take long for me to come back...usually wiggling my hands or feet first a little, moving my eyes without seeing anything and transitioning into seeing things.

 

[illusionist]

It has only happened to me once around my kids. As I've said before, I've been kind of trained from a young age to come out of it...so normally I shake my head a few times and blink a lot. Once, when my kids were out playing I went into one, a deep one. My daughter came in and I assume she had spoken ( often sounds are muted due to the drugged feeling) and my daughter started pulling my nose, as kids do , to get my attention. As she didn't get a reaction she started crying and shouting by mums dead. That was really scary to think that I'd frightened my daughter. I never ever allowed myself to get into one again when my kids were up.

Shimmerz....Sounds like yours have been really bad and scary. You feel like you are on speed where I feel like I've taken a drug giving the opposite effect.

 

[Powder]

Shimmerz, that sounds like Freeze really stuck on. I'm so sorry because when I've had that, I've felt awful. Once I felt I couldn't move and I could see, but not clearly.

I don't know if this is a dumb question, but do you have a pet or animal?

 

[shimmerz]

I don't know if this is a dumb question, but do you have a pet or animal?

No, I am afraid not @Muse. I used to but I was out for days at a time and the thing is, he needed to be fed, so I was forced to give him to friends, for his own good.

 

[Powder]

That's hard. I'm sorry. Gosh, you have had a really hard time.

 

[shimmerz]

I like to think of it as "I have learned a lot'. :confused: