Why Can't Some Of Us Talk On The Forum?

[Rumors]

@Pencil and @Notsowild
There is an old Cherokee Indian proverb where a grandfather tells his grandson that there is a battle between two wolves that live inside each of us. One is evil. It is anger, jealously, greed, resentment, hate, inferiority, lies, and ego. The other is good. It is joy, peace, happiness, humility, hope, kindness, empathy, and truth. The grandson asks, "which wolf wins?" The grandfather replies, "The one you feed!"
Maslow may know conditioned response, bc much like the proverb, he fed the dog. However, if you feed your mind in ways that are healthy, your responses become healthier!!! Just my humble opinion!!!! Best to all...

 

[anthony]

One should remember, Maslow's law is hypothethis and nothing more. When you read all the psychological theories, you can pick bits from them all which are true for you, but individualism smashes all of them as complete and accurate, thus theoretical concepts.

 

[tacit]

Personally I believe that the confusion is between whether this is a PTSD issue at all or just a clash of personality types??

Not everything we feel is a symptom of our illness(s). It has been widely accepted for quite some time now that different learning styles not only exist, but that they narrow down to three main types: Visual, Auditory & Kinesthetic. Whilst everyone uses a combination of all three styles, more often than not individuals will have a dominate style that they prefer.

Visual – tend to think in pictures & trust in what can be seen & done. They tend to say things like: ‘I see what you mean’. And they normally feel better by doing something about it.

Kinesthetic – tend to think in feelings & trust their gut. They tend to say things like: ‘That feels right’. And they normally feel better by soothing their emotions.

Auditory – tend to think in words & trust facts, figures, data & research. They tend to say things like: ‘The evidence supports that’. And they normally feel better by listening to something.

The Sales & Marketing industry have known for a very long time, that in order to cast the widest net, that they need to make sure that they appeal to all three types in their advertising. It is also the norm to see the three styles being catered for in presentations & programs that you buy. There will be colors & pictures to keep the Visual’s attention, facts, figures & graphs to hold the Auditory’s attention & the odd joke or story here & there to keep the Kinesthetic’s engaged. Buy a program today & you will normally be given the option to attend something live to feel the experience, whether it is a live event or webinar etc., together with written transcripts, cd’s & dvd’s of the same, so that everyone can get the most out of their teachings.

Now add in personality types, which all exist within each learning style. For example, I’m a big picture thinker, amongst other things, & I have great difficulty with detail. I will have a number of books that I am reading at the same time, rather than start a book & finish it before moving on to the next one. I lose interest because to me they’re not getting to the point & I honestly see it as filler, so I read something else til the same happens & then come back to it at another time, etc. etc. I can also be terribly impatient – ‘can we go already’ or ‘omg get on with it’. Although I would like to think that I am always improving. ;)

Anyway, the point is this. Bearing in mind that I am high Visual & high Kinesthetic & also a big picture thinker, I’m pretty sure you can guess how I would take someone trying to prove their point by reeling off facts, figures & experts. You are going to get anything from, ‘I really don’t care, I’m not interested’ & it just doesn’t register to ‘omg, you’re doing my head in’. Where illness plays its’ role is in the severity of the response, but either way the response will more than likely be some sort of version of ‘you’re not helping’.

Having said all of this though, I am also no fool. I totally appreciate & respect the value & need of the details. They are extremely important to everything. They just don’t register as important to me personally. It doesn't mean that I can't or won't do that side of it, it just means that I am not the best person for that job. That’s also why I employ professionals to know them, so that I don’t have to. At the end of the day I will always go with my gut & results over research, whilst always being aware of & guided by the experts, but not beholden to them.

I don’t think the problem here is so much about who is right & who is wrong, but rather more about what works for who & what doesn’t & how it’s being communicated. :tup:

Regarding this thread & it's original intent being on how people are feeling, it was never going to be resolved with facts or action. The only way to resolve this situation, whether right or wrong & regardless of whether anyone else agrees or not, was always going to be through kindness.

Cheers :)

 

[moonbeam]

Yes, they do. The think that way because they are dependent on their caregivers and need them to be dependable, and perfect. So a child's accepts blame rather than risk losing the care.

Hmm I could have worded that better. I was specifically thinking of painful things.

But no I used to work around 2 to 24 month olds but mostly 12-24 months. They cry when injured because they don't naturally enjoy pain. If they bite eachother, hit, whatever we would move them to a table where the chairs were built in for 2 minutes and they were told what they did wrong. They are smart. They learn the idea of guilt and blame. Even before it can be labeled they are taught to be nice to the kitty and the word no.

"I deserve this" because of guilt etc. Is a learned idea. They may not understand theory of actions have consequence and newtons law and stuff. They learn it on a practical level. If a child thinks they deserve something painful or something that's painful is enjoyable than someone has done or said something to teach them that idea. So much happens in the first few years that we aren't cognitive of later in life but has a compounding effect on us. / but I've derailed further. Sorry!!

 

[Pencil]

Regarding this thread & it's original intent being on how people are feeling, it was never going to be resolved with facts or action. The only way to resolve this situation, whether right or wrong & regardless of whether anyone else agrees or not, was always going to be through kindness.

Indeed!

 

[anthony]

Regarding this thread & it's original intent being on how people are feeling, it was never going to be resolved with facts or action.

I'm not sure anyone is trying to resolve the original question... there are also different topics within this thread that are not about the original post.

The only person who can resolve a self-problem, is that person. Everyone else can only offer opinions, guidance, ideas and such... the solution lay with the person who has the problem.

 

[shimmerz]

The only person who can resolve a self-problem, is that person.

I understand why this needs to be, on an administrative level. What I don't understand is if someone asks during the posting for what they need, with all the people here who have been to counseling, rarely been heard, have been emotionally and physically abused.... perhaps they could put all of that counseling to use and respect what others are asking.

Seriously, I don't understand why, if someone is clear about what they need, others must disrespect that. Can't one just move onto the next post?

 

[sun seeker]

Regarding this thread & it's original intent being on how people are feeling, it was never going to be resolved with facts or action. The only way to resolve this situation, whether right or wrong & regardless of whether anyone else agrees or not, was always going to be through kindness.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Three cheers for that post. (Being in the kinesthetic category myself, of course I'm predisposed to agree.)

I wonder why I stopped getting notifications for this thread when I've been watching it from the beginning. I just happened upon it again by accident. Anyone else have that happen?

 

[anthony]

Seriously, I don't understand why, if someone is clear about what they need, others must disrespect that. Can't one just move onto the next post?

Diversity is the spice of life, and what you're asking is that people not be allowed to say what they believe or think, providing it is not in a manner according to our policies. Choice is everything, and people get to make that choice for themselves uniquely, nobody else.

That is what you have to understand... everyone has a right to choose whether they reply or not. Nobody gets to make that choice for them, not even the OP.

 

[joeylittle]

I don't understand why, if someone is clear about what they need, others must disrespect that.

I don't think it's totally that black and white. If someone asks me, for example (random example, not in this thread) to support them in their belief that they are a horrible person who will never heal because it really is all their fault they were raped - well, I'm not going to support that. To me, that's more than a bit like supporting an addict by agreeing it's OK for them to have just one more drink, smoke, hit, whatever.

We all have the ability to distort reality, to a greater or lesser degree. And I'm starting to think it has something to do with trauma being an event that stresses actual reality so far that we just lose all sense of where the ceiling is.

Kind of like, once you experience extreme terror, beyond the bounds of what you thought was possible - reality just gets bent for you. We learn to distort, in other words, because of being put through distortion. (that's my pennysworth of philosophy).

So, we all distort - and so, sometimes when we are very raw, we express ourselves in a very raw, painful, often distorted fashion. That rawness tends to being out whatever is most primal in each of us - whether its nurture, fight, hide, soothe, reason....every human is different, you know?

I'm not coming to some sort of blanket conclusion here, I just feel strongly that the answer isn't "give someone exactly what they ask for" (and that's even assuming they ask for it, which often does not occur)...

It's more like, everyone is going to bring their own tool-kit to the problem. if you, the person with the problem, know yourself well enough to know that nobody should bring out a screwdriver, because the idea of applying a screwdriver to the situation is just wrong for you - well, that's something we can all respond to. You say "I know screwdriver makes sense right now, but I cannot stand them, please no screwdrivers".

But if you only say, "I want a hammer!" - you'll get:

• a bunch of people rushing at you with hammers
• plus some holding screwdrivers backwards because you can hammer with that end
• plus some wrenches
• probably even some random nails and wood glue
• and a blowtorch.

Sometimes, we are so distorted that we say things like this: "i have to stick these two pieces of wood together. Bring me the scissors!". And personally, I can't fault the individual that offers up hammer and nails.

But if you say, "I have to stick these two pieces of wood together, and I think I want scissors, I don't know, just for pete's sake don't bring hammer and nails - well, you'll still get someone who would like to point out that hammer and nails might work well - but probably the majority will either click on by, or try and help you figure out about the wanting of the scissors, or suggest you can put the wood down, or whatever.

Analogies brought to you by one tired but well-meaning poster.

 

[Rumors]

@tacit
I don't agree or disagree, however I feel like the kindest thing you can do is present facts to people who are seeking answers/information so that they may make a better informed decision instead of a misinformed decision based purely and solely on emotion. There is a blended use for all emotions when trying to sort through life issues. You can't simply depend on one sense to make an informed decision. When eating a gourmet meal, they don't bring it out in a plastic container. They serve it on fine china and decorated because not only do we rely upon our sense of taste and smell, but also visual too. If I am trying to decide if I will like a meal based solely on its visual appearance, I may be missing a great meal bc it looks bad. However, you may point out that I need to try it before I dismiss it because it may not look good, but it tastes great. You may view that as not being kind, however I view that as the kindest thing you can do for me so that I don't miss out on a truly wonderful meal.
Just my opinion.

 

[Pencil]

I still think the real issue is being skirted.
@Notsowild, is essence, said: Why do I feel that I can't express myself without being corrected and ultimately silenced - especially by a certain group of people?

And then ... she was corrected and silenced.

I read MANY posts that I don't respond to, for a variety of reasons, such as thinking it is total twaddle, the poster is looney, it is a boring topic, and so forth. Underneath my cognitive or emotional response to the post, however, is the bland fact that I don't relate, that what the post says is not in my frame of reference and that it does not fit in with my world view. A concrete example would be a member who expresses unbridled ANGST. I don't relate. I don't do angst. I refuse to go there. This does not make me qualified or justified to tell the poster to ... stop, or to get a grip, or to take a tranquilizer ffs. I might think that in that moment, but responding with impatience, or even an attitude of 'knowing better' would be unkind, ignorant, unhelpful, arrogant, and ultimately counterproductive - i.e it would simply ramp up the poster's anxiety level. And kind of like of foisting scissors on someone when a hammer is urgently needed.

PTSD is unlike diabetes - there isn't a standard protocol coupled to quantities. The OP asked for 'compassion'. Is that so difficult?