Why Can't Some Of Us Talk On The Forum?

[Neverthesame]

I would like to take a stab at answering the original question for myself if no one objects.

There are many times I don't comment here. I have a variety of reasons why:

- I am a lousy conversationalist. I can be very good at saying one thing, but having a proper back and forth with people, can be very challenging for me. I just run out of things to say. I don't speak often in person. When I do I have an amazing talent for talking for hours without really saying anything.

- I can be very negative. Especially in this last year or so I have been struggling with depression quite a bit. The meds I used to take didn't work this time, nor have any of the others I have tried. I have had to battle with this with little help, in a depressive episode which has lasted far longer than any before it. Not totally sure why, but this has been one of my worst years since being diagnosed. Still trying though.

- I am my own worst enemy. The things I tell myself on a day to day basis, could shock a sailor. I have a very abusive internal monologue. I have learned to ignore me most of the time, but sometimes I will type something out to post. Then delete it, after for example, thinking this "Jesus Christ, (Real name) shut the f*ck up. Why would anyone give a shit what you have to say? Your a mess. You failed at your career. Now you struggle to hold a job that only requires you to be functionally literate. It keeps going but I'm sure that you get the idea.

- I have a strong personality. I am not as blunt as some (note, I don't consider that a character flaw. Some of favorite people ever, are the kind that will just be brutally honest with you.). I however am not comfortable being at odds with someone. I just want to resolve a conflict and move on. Knowing someone is annoyed with me but waiting for some specific time or place to work it out. Makes me unbelievably tense. Totally my own issue, but it does make me choose my words with care.

- I don't like sounding a fool. If I have no idea what I am talking about, I don't like adding my input. I believe that there is only one thing you can pull from your arse, and you should not wave it around in front of you like a trophy. There is a quote I am rather fond of. I have probably said it elsewhere on this forum, but here it is again. "It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool. Than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt". Prime example of this would be the CBT discussion that was raging earlier in this thread. I honestly don't know enough about how Cognitive behaviour therapy works, for me to feel like I could contribute anything meaningful.

There are a few of my reasons for why I feel I can't/shouldn't post here sometimes.

 

[greenleaf]

@anthony have you read the stuff in Body Keeps the Score about CBT not being helpful for a lot of folks with dissociative issues? If our lower brains switch off our ability to use higher cognitive skills on issues ... even if cognitive distortions are present I suspect future research is going to show other therapies are going to get the root cause.

Think of a computer solving a problem and someone keeps yelling at the programmer for a solution not being reached year after year... but there was a hardware problem that flushed the memory each time more than a certain amount got into memory.

However since no one has had the tools to discover the hardware problem year after year experts keep blaming the programmer. .. we are self programming in a sense...:-)

 

[anthony]

Did you also read that DBT was useful? DBT's foundation is built on CBT. EMDR? EMDR is a CBT therapy that expands on exposure treatment.

I will reiterate, CBT should not be confused with trauma therapy versions, as CBT at the core level has nothing to do with trauma and does not treat trauma. CBT purely and ONLY treats cognitive distortions and looks at negative behaviours and how they could be changed to positive behaviours. Again... still nothing to do with trauma, and at no stage should CBT venture into trauma when at the grass roots level. CBT itself is not a trauma therapy. CBT has foundations that expand into many trauma therapies, of which any number, variation, or none of which, may help a person treat their trauma.

IMHO, I believe confusion reigns supreme over treatment modalities. Hell, people are so confused nowadays about PTSD due to all the misinformation upon the Internet.

Here are the expert treatment guidelines for treating complex PTSD: [T1]

Take particular notice of the requirements for a phase based intervention. This simply means, a very slow and individual based approach with the first phase consisting primarily of stability.

Phase 1 focuses on stabilization and skills strengthening and has several main functions. The first goal is to ensure that the priority of any mental health treatment, patient safety, has been achieved. A second goal is to strengthen the individual’s capacities for emotional awareness and expression, increase positive self- concept and address feelings of guilt and shame, and increase interpersonal and social competencies.

Strengthening these domains improves functioning in day-to-day life, builds confidence and provides motivation for engagement and continuation in treatment. Lastly, the presence of an initial skills building phase enhances the effectiveness of trauma processing work and contributes to PTSD symptom reduction (see Cloitre et al, 2010)

This is talking about stabilisation, self regulation, safe environmental factors. Basically, the ability to get themselves as stable as possible with all the negative thoughts and negative factors in their life. To find relaxation skills that work for them, to build trust and the list goes on. These are CBT basic foundational principles, none of which are trauma focused. Person centred as well, even some other basic counselling methods. Zero trauma therapy... CBT is not a trauma therapy, CBT by itself is a foundation of principles to stabilise a person, to help them self-regulate their cognitive and emotional self, to help them rationalise their irrational world, and change negative behaviours in their rational world to positive behaviours.

People keep confusing what CBT is at its core root level with CBT trauma therapy types. They aren't the same.

Read the list of authors who consented to those principles in 2012: Marylene Cloitre, Chris Courtois, Julian Ford, Bonnie Green, Pamela Alexander, John Briere, Judith L. Herman, Ruth Lanius, Laurie Anne Pearlman, Bradley Stolbach, Joseph Spinazzola, Bessel van der Kolk, Onno van der Hart

All the leading CPTSD experts in the world. Again, don't confuse an experts use of a trauma therapy type versus a basic principle of a therapeutic method.

 

[anthony]

Just to nail home my point about confusion surrounding CBT and its terms use, read these expert resources and how each one differentiates in their explanation and expanding of CBT towards PTSD:

1. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml
   
2. http://www.psychiatry.org/ptsd
   
3. http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/basics/what-is-ptsd.asp
   
4. [DLMURL]http://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Posttraumatic-Stress-Disorder/Treatment[/DLMURL]
   
5. Dead Link Removed

Only NAMI and MHA came close to correctly describing CBT at its core foundation, one using anxiety, one using depression, as the treatment protocol. In fact, CBT core therapy is used to treat both, and a few other conditions that utilise and have core issues with cognitive distortions.

Read this thread... I read peoples same confusion about what CBT is at the core level. With the misinformation from such leading sites... I expect such issues here, because one should be able to trust these sites to get their core information correct... yet they don't.

If you want me to make a further point... read those authoritative sites above and look at the difference in statistics they each mention about who gets PTSD in America. This is the issue... they're doing their own thing, instead of working from the empirical data set.

 

[Pencil]

"I am often saddened when I hear adult children parrot the "conventional wisdom" that it is bad to feel sorry for yourself."

Pete Walker
http://www.pete-walker.com/recoverySelfpity.htm

I find the demonstration of why some don't feel comfortable talking on the forum very interesting.

 

[Rumors]

@Pencil

Pencil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have missed you!!

 

[Pencil]

@Rumors :hug:

And @Notsowild :hug:

 

[Rumors]

@Pencil
I just read the article. I think it is powerful and speaks volumes on being able to self pity in a healthy way. I guess the grey area is in what is healthy??? I am not sure that I know, however I do believe that if you are someone who has negative thinking styles, I am not sure you can self pity in a healthy way. Meaning, if you think you are at fault for EVERYTHING in life or that you feel that NO ONE likes you, you might be a candidate for unhealthy self pity. When people speak in absolutes, I begin to question how qualified they are to asses certain situations in a productive manner. Just my opinion though...

 

[Pencil]

I agree with you @Rumors, but I also agree with Maslow, who might have known more about all of this than all of us put together, that 'unmet needs motivate'. I firmly believe that when someone seeks 'pity', 'empathy', 'consolation', whatever, it is a clear indication that healthy 'pity' has been sorely lacking. And so, instead of a 'boot up the arse', as someone so eloquently phrased it, and a 'pull yourself together' approach, the very best remedy would be exactly what the person is asking for.

And yes, I've seen attacks, I've been attacked. I've posted with a request for sensitive responses, only to have one member relentlessly nitpick, until I politely asked him/her to desist, only to be called 'bitter and twisted' or something equally flattering.
And now I've set myself up for an attack, which is also perfectly fine.

This forum has been a lifeline for me. I've also learned that this forum is a microcosm of the real world. One should expect to find sages and ordinary mortals, just like in the real world.

What does strike me is that @Notsowild 's OP got 20 likes, which means that it struck a chord with many people, and I therefore think that the microscopic focus on her 'pity party' derailed the thread. This tends to happen quite a lot, sadly.

 

[Valentino]

This healthy pity reminds me of Karla McLaren's 'Conscious Complaining' technique which she teaches both as a solitary and relationship practice.

here's an excerpt from her blog about the relationship process:

You’ll be amazed at how productive (and funny) this complaining technique is. We’re all taught to be positive, nice, and peppy at all times — which means we’ve got to repress most of our emotions, reduce our Empathic Accuracy, and lose our Emotion Regulation skills.

Often, repression will kick our emotions into repetitive feedback loops, but Conscious Complaining lets us tell the truth and restore our flow. Conscious Complaining is a great all-around stress-reliever, but when you can complain with a partner, there’s a special set of additional benefits:

1. It teaches you how to reach out (instead of isolate yourself) when you’re in turmoil in a safe and boundary-respecting way,
2. It teaches you and your complaining partner new ways to function around pain and trouble, and,
3. It gives both of you the opportunity for your emotion work to be requested, respected, and performed intentionally.

-- link to full blog entry: http://karlamclaren.com/a-surprising-new-empathic-skill-complaining-consciously/

It also reminds me of Dr. Dan Siegel's practice called "Name it to Tame it":

Repair of disintegrated low-road states starts with the self-reflection of mindsight. What was the trigger? What is the meaning of that hot button issue for you? What were the signs that let you know something was being triggered in you? Once down the low road, did you take a break and if possible leave the scene? Could you feel your way to lowering your nervous system’s chaotic flooding or rigid shutting down? Drinking a glass of water, stretching, getting some fresh air, moving around the room are all ways of changing your present state of agitation or withdrawal.

Of course if you are the recipient of such low-road states, in that moment there may be little you can do except to remove yourself from a situation. Out of the heat of the moment, it may be extremely useful to name this process “low road” or “flipping out.” These are reactive states, far from the receptive state we need to truly connect with others. And so, even stating that “I am reactive now, I need a short break” is better than simply exploding.

In the brain, naming an emotion can help calm it. Here is where finding words to label an internal experience becomes really helpful. We can call this “Name it to tame it.” And sometimes these low-road states can go beyond being unpleasant and confusing—they can even make life feel terrifying. If that is going on, talk about it. Sharing your experience with others can often make even terrifying moments understood and not traumatizing. Your inner sea and your interpersonal relationships will all benefit from naming what is going on and bringing more integration into your life.
...
Learning to deal with emotions means being aware of them and modifying them inside us so that we can think clearly. Sometimes we can name it to tame it and help balance our brain’s emotional intensity by putting words to what we feel. If we say the name of an emotion inside our own minds, it can help. There are even some brain studies that show how this naming process can activate the prefrontal cortex and calm the limbic amygdala!
--- excerpt from "Brainstorm" written by Daniel J Siegel, MD

here's a video of him describing it:

 

[Teasel]

I hope you're feeling a bit better than you were @Notsowild, have slept a little etc. I really felt for you reading this thread, as I relate such a lot generally. And yes it's been very interesting to see such venom poured out!

 

[Sandstone]

A child doesn't naturally have something bad happen like abuse and think "I like this" or "I deserve this" or any other manipulative BS.

Yes, they do. The think that way because they are dependent on their caregivers and need them to be dependable, and perfect. So a child's accepts blame rather than risk losing the care.

Not that I think this has anything much to do with CBT/