Why Can't Some Of Us Talk On The Forum?

[shimmerz]

whether right or wrong & regardless of whether anyone else agrees or not, was always going to be through kindness.

And I suppose it depends on what one thinks kindness is. One might think the greatest kindness is raking someone over the coals, I know my mother used the 'it's for your own good' on me quite often. Sometimes there is just a need for empathy, not kindness so much, as that definition can be up for interpretation.

give someone exactly what they ask for

I am not certain it is about what they ask for so much as when they are clearly stating what they feel their limitations are, in that they are vulnerable. Should that not be respected?
So it is more like 'Hey, I don't want a hammer'. There is clarity in that statement.

in a manner according to our policies.

Yes, I understand that. I am not speaking about a rule based issue here.

what you're asking is that people not be allowed to say what they believe or think

No, I think what I am trying to get across is that sometimes it is of value to see that someone's stress cup is full and that it is, as well, part of the healing process for social interaction to know when to stand back because a certain type of input is not being helpful given the situation.

I wonder why I stopped getting notifications for this thread when I've been watching it from the beginning.

Yes, me too.

And yes, I've seen attacks, I've been attacked. I've posted with a request for sensitive responses, only to have one member relentlessly nitpick, until I politely asked him/her to desist, only to be called 'bitter and twisted' or something equally flattering.

And I am trying to understand how this type of behaviour is helpful on a mental health board. It discourages people, who may well have valuable information, from posting. Is that helpful to us as a group? There is a point where an opinion is nothing but a thinly disguised outlet for frustrated and angry emotions to be targeted at others. I would refer to these as judgements, not opinions.

An opinion is very different and much less damaging than a judgement. Judgements, when not accepted, many times can turn into a full out attack, whereas opinions come from a more detached place, imho.

 

[Rumors]

So, if you are sitting next to someone who is consistently taking a knife and cutting on their arm until it bleeds, are you supposed to watch and do nothing? In my opinion, the OP has consistently exhibited an unhealthy thinking style across the board. There have been many posts where she talked about having a pity party, @Notsowild not trying to pick on you what so ever dear, and later to find out that she was having sleep issues or issues at work. I feel like I am watching her pick at a scab every time she goes down that road. Now, do I sit there and watch? Or, do I encourage her to question her own thinking style?
I don't post here enough to be part of any clique. Hell, I don't know the dynamics of the board enough to know who is in or out. In my opinion, believing that you are unpopular or tagged or don't fit in on a mental health board is probably not a healthy way to view things. It only deepens the insecure parts and makes it harder to move out of the dark mental feelings. I know because I grew up with someone just like this. I watched her struggle my whole life and NEVER have any consistent happiness because she never faced whatever demons challenged her. There was always an excuse of why it was someone else's fault or doing.
When we fail to own our behavior, good or bad, we can never truly head down the path of recovery. Shit, if you don't think daily I own something I would rather skirt around, you are wrong. It is an accountability that I would much rather NOT own, however I certainly do not want to stay stautus quo either. Kindness, whatever...respect, yes. If the op wants to begin that quest to feeling better, which I believe she does with all of her heart, she will address the issues at heart. She has sleep issues which totally screws with your ability to process things normally. I have them too, so I can completely understand. As I have said before, I have read so many of her posts and think in so many venues she is quite awesome and a force to be reckoned with. However, I have watched her cut and pick at the same scab. If ONE thing I have posted makes her question her own style of thinking, then everything is worth it. If one thing strikes a nerve with anyone here and makes them rethink, then it was worth it. There have been so many things that have been written here that have made me think about my situation and how to productively move forward and I am so thankful. If all we do is acknowledge the unhealthy thinking styles and validate them, do we really move on or are we just creating an environment where we console and never move past things.
Just FYI, notsowild hasn't disappeared. She has been posting about a horrible situation at work that I hope resolves for her soon. I admire her and believe her heart is in a good place, but the disease tends to make things less clear at times. I also believe that she doesn't want to stay status who either.

Earlier in a post, I referred to her style of thinking and moreso words, as a form of manipulation. I regret that I worded it that way because I don't think that the healthy OP would manipulate. I do, however, believe the disease makes us unconsciencously manipulate our feelings into drastic words like "EVERYONE is against me" or "NO ONE likes me". Those absolutes are unhealthy. My mom did those things. It sucked because it felt very much like she was trying to garner sympathy from the situation and perpetuate the pity party. Trust me, I am totally ok with a pity party, but I am not ok with a perpetual pity party that doesn't end or never seems to resolve any problems. My mom had the perpetual pity party and she never moved past anything... Ever...then she died.

@Notsowild. I apologize if I have offended or hurt you in any way. I personally don't believe there are cliques here on the site. If there are, I am not a member of a clique. I posted from my heart not from a clique. I have had my ass chewed by Anthony and Nicole and maybe a few other administrators for posting something I shouldnt. I don't care and I don't take it personally because it is their job and their rules. I sincerely hope you have been able to get to the bottom of your sleep issues and work issues. ;)

 

[shimmerz]

encourage her to question her own thinking style

I think we are getting stuck on a point here. I am not talking about withdrawing encouragement. I am not speaking about not pointing out flaws as we may see them in the form of opinions. I am speaking about judgements, name calling, accusing in an inflammatory way that the OP 'must be' a liar, a manipulator, a victim, someone looking for pity. The fact that she stated that she needed compassion meant that something was going on with her (sleep deprivation and work issues) not a license to slash her character.

There have been many posts where she talked about having a pity party

No, my understanding of that was because someone first accused her of pity partying and she was attempting, to ward off that assumption by others. She was saying she didn't want that reference assigned to her. She was quite clear in that. I don't see that as unhealthy. I see that as putting up great boundaries.

And as it turns out, she was right. She was not pity partying, she was exhausted and overwhelmed. For saying what she didn't want (what she felt didn't apply to her situation), she was assigned all sorts of negative character traits. I don't feel that is right. I feel that we as posters can explore those possibilities with a poster but it gets dangerous when we assume, accuse, and force our beliefs rather than post in a compassionate and exploratory way. Which is exactly what she knew she needed and what she asked for in the first place.

I too, took exception to the 'EVERYONE' statements as I did seriously try to extend a compassionate hand, but by then the posting had gone crazy with accusations flying. Anyone would react to some of the things that were said to the OP at that point.

 

[Rumors]

@shimmerz
I just agree to disagree. My take was different than yours. That is the beautiful thing about this forum. I don't have to agree with you nor do you have to agree with me.
;)

 

[shimmerz]

@Rumors , this is absolutely true! :hug:

 

[Rumors]

All of my best, @shimmerz. Thanks for your reply..

 

[Pencil]

If someone neurotically pics a scab, telling them to stop aint gonna work :). The picking will most probably intensify.

What I noticed was that all fingers pointed in the OP's direction. I didn't notice any exploration or self examination, or even just an openness to consider the possibility that the TWENTY ONE people who liked the post might just have a point that might be worth listening to.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

And then ... she was corrected and silenced.

Silenced? Did anyone hold a gun to her head and tell her she cannot post? Uhm, nope. You can't come on here and lie to everyone and expect things to be a-o-k. I don't understand this sort of attitude? Maybe......OMG......just maybe, she had a hand in her own silencing! In the real world, if you are a known liar, then nobody believes you over time. Its the same sort of "silencing" in that said person no longer really has a voice. Want to be heard? Its SIMPLE. Don't lie.

So she had a point, that SHE herself FEELS silenced. Lets break it down. Ok, so maybe some people do feel silenced. Does telling a bold faced lie to support the cause actually further said cause? Uhm, nope, it merely takes away all credibility (same thing happens in the real world). And it appears that she is the one who is silencing herself! She's brought up the pity party thing a LOT and has used it to make herself feel worse. (Why should we support such behavior?)

NOTHING happened other than ONE person.......OMG........ONE person posting a FRIGGIN ****OPINION****** that she was having a pity party! O.....M.......F.......G..........I think this goes down in forum history as quite possibly the VERY LONGEST reaction thread to a reply! One SINGLE person told her that she was having a pity party and because she couldn't take it as constructive criticism (and either say hey yeah, maybe I am having a pity party ~or~ reject the advice outright because it was not a pity party....) we now have this lovely thread.

So maybe that first thread wasn't a pity party, but the OP chose to make it a pity party by starting this thread.....Yes, in THIS thread the pity party victim behavior is indeed pointed out because it is a set up pattern. But, at the end of the day, you have the power to accept what has been said and use it to better yourself, or reject it and move on. (This crucial step isn't happening, and if the OP can't master this, forum presence isn't going to help her much. Maybe a ((((HUG)))))y forum would be better for her.)

So maybe she should examine why ONE single solitary reply from a LOOOONG time ago is still affecting her? Thought rumination? Obsession? Self hate? There is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING that we can do to help the OP on this one until she stops taking everything so personally and accepting replies as the word of the gospel.

I'd say she's possibly engaging in trauma recreation on this one, and getting much of the forum to play along.

Its interesting to view forum replies. If you are a firecracker like me and react in such a way, people fight back against you. But, if you go the other way and try to garner pity because you didn't like the replies, a lot more people will take your side, even when they don't know the whole story. (Which is exactly what is going on here...)

? In my opinion, the OP has consistently exhibited an unhealthy thinking style across the board.

Exactly. Its not healthy to support such behavior. If you set up a pattern, I really do think its time for no huggy huggy coddling responses as those don't help. Again, I've seen patterns of behavior go on and on for different people, and the kinder sort of support doesn't penetrate into the brain. Time for more "straight to the point" responses.

 

[joeylittle]

the TWENTY ONE people who liked the post might just have a point that might be worth listening to.

Actually, I think a pretty interesting broader discussion bloomed up out of that. I'm not saying it was everything it should have been, but many of those people took the opportunity to post their own experiences on this thread. For myself, I can honestly say that I thought about every single one of them, and added my voice to that pile, actually, because it was how I felt when I first got here. Not that there were cliques - just that I didn't know how to talk here.

But that's a common challenge for me, in life. I'm introverted, I stand in the corner of the room and watch everyone else interact, and look for something I might be able to do. What I've experienced is that the 'buffer zone' of this being essentially an anonymous forum has made it possible for me to challenge my own assumptions about whether I'm welcome or not - and that has been a really good thing for me.

I don't think I'm the only one reading the thread who was actively listening - that's my only point, that the topic you are pointing to did not get glossed over. It was at first overtaken by the other part of the OP - in her first post, she said,

I know personally I've been told things like 'You're having a pity party' and
'Get over it'. There are some strong scary personalities on here.

(I'm not using the quote function because I want to be respectful of Notsowild's space).

There have been many posts where she talked about having a pity party

No, my understanding of that was because someone first accused her of pity partying and she was attempting, to ward off that assumption by others. She was saying she didn't want that reference assigned to her. She was quite clear in that. I don't see that as unhealthy. I see that as putting up great boundaries.

@shimmerz, we may need to agree to disagree here, but I don't think I'm stating opinion - she was not clearly applying the negative phrases 'pity party' and 'get over it' in order to keep people from accusing her of it. She was taking on-board the idea as if she had heard it multiple times, and was actually inadvertently accusing herself.

Then, when another poster made that accusation a topic, she clarified that she hadn't put the phrase on herself, someone else had. That is the exchange in particular that you are referencing, and it was nearly the last one on the subject until this thread.

And what is really important under all that is that only one person, once, responded mid-conversation with

I'm going to assume that you're just having a pity party moment right now? Which is fine if so... we all go through those. But if not... then I think you're wrong, you're mindset is far from healing...

Right about now I must seem like the meanest crow in the murder, just picking and picking and picking at this. It's not my intention. I'm not trying to say Notsowild was wrong, I was right, or anything even close. I believe that root causes are really important to identify and keep clear - the fact-y stuff, the things that are closest to reality.

I went and tried to find out who had been mean to her - because I had often read her saying "I know, I'll just be told I'm having a pity party again", and it had always bothered me. Who was stalking her around accusing her of that? I wanted to know. See, I took her at face value, and my instinct was to do something about the stone-throwers. And then I discovered she was throwing them at herself. There had never been an accusation, there was a clearly triggering phrase used, but not intended to trigger. She was relentlessly, unconsciously picking at a scab, and my well-meaning (but inadvertently more chaos-causing) instinct was to point it out.

Why? Because my toolkit is full of levels and rulers and measuring tape - basically, I (personally) respond to facts very well when dealing with my own distortions. That's all.

I guess the last thing I want to contribute (and then I'll shush again) is that diversity is hard. @shimmerz, just like you I often wish that this or that post was not as blunt or harsh or rooted in the posters own demons. I also often wish that some posts were not so enabling of what I'd call a dangerous thinking style. And my biggest personal wish is that people were all more careful readers. But that's just not how it is.

I believe that, because of the diversity of voices here, it actually all balances itself out. But you might not agree - and that's kind of the point...to talk about it.

 

[Friday]

... even just an openness to consider the possibility that the TWENTY ONE people who liked the post might just have a point that might be worth listening to.

They aren't mystery-people, Pencil. Nearly every person who disagreed with @NotSoWilds self assessment, and spent a great deal of time, in many different ways. trying to help her see she is a liked & valued member of the community liked the post, as well.

I don't understand why some people are so intent to confirm to someone afraid that people don't like them... that people don't like them. That isn't a kindness. Nor, when people say "You're wrong, we do like you" & "You're wrong, you are valued" to get so up in arms about telling someone they're wrong that they miss the entire spirit of the many, many, many messages attempting & a vast chorus of voices trying to help.

Validation isn't always positive, & disagreement isn't always negative.

"I'm afraid people don't like me here."
"They don't!"
"Yes we do." / "We do." / "We do." / "You're wrong, we do." / "Here's A-Z on ways to combat that." / "Here's my own experience." / "Here are my fears." /
"Stop ganging up on her! How dare you tell her she's wrong!"

???????

Reinforcing negative self image, self defeating fears, and distortion isn't a kindness.

 

[Pencil]

You can't come on here and lie to everyone and expect things to be a-o-k. I don't understand this sort of attitude? Maybe......OMG......just maybe, she had a hand in her own silencing! In the real world, if you are a known liar, then nobody believes you over time. Its the same sort of "silencing" in that said person no longer really has a voice. Want to be heard? Its SIMPLE. Don't lie.

Just to clarify: Was this statement just a generalisation or are you actually accusing Notsowild of lying?

 

[Pencil]

“All cruel people describe themselves as paragons of frankness.”
― Tennessee Williams

Thanks for this @risingsun