Why Can't Some Of Us Talk On The Forum?

[Notsowild]

Wow don't know where to begin. It's still not a great time for me. Starting to dissociate badly again. So forgive me if it sounds jumbled.

I am not a liar or manipulator. @Rumors ... Your post was spot on except the manipulator part. My boss and my abusive father are manipulators, I am not them. I am a good person. I did not intentionally try to deceive anyone. Self-victimizer that is me. I see that know. I took the pity party post and kept using it hmm not for pity or attention I think mainly because my posts were so " oh poor me" posts. Well I take that back maybe I did want attention but only because I left so lonely. What makes it so bad is I wanted all of you to understand what I needed but never asked for it.

I was bombarded with so many crazy symptoms. And being dissociative most of my life didn't help( not asking for pity) I did not know how to communicate anymore. I was living in my only little fog. I have no one in the real word who understands this disorder. Then I go an alienate people who understand it so well. For that I am so sorry. @joeylittle, @Solara@ @Rumors, @anthony please except my apology.

I'll still have a hard time posting on here but then that is all my own fault.

 

[Rumors]

You are courageous beyond words @Notsowild. I hope you are sleeping better. I would have to think there is something you can do or take that could help you with that a little more.

 

[anthony]

Please stop apologising @Notsowild... this is just a discussion, you haven't done anything wrong. People discuss... that's the www.

 

[Friday]

I'll still have a hard time posting on here but then that is all my own fault.

Responsibility v Fault v Blame

Similar creatures. I have a hard time posting on here. In a couple different ways. Many, if not most of us, do.

While I like to use the word 'fault'... ((Because I like it when things are my fault. If it's my fault? I can fix it!!! :D. If it's someone else's fault? I have no power over that))... the better word is responsibility. My fears, my anxieties, my self doubt? Are my responsibility. Same concept, however. <grin> I can work on my own issues (and bounce questions off the forum if I don't know if it's me or me claiming responsibility for things that aren't mine), because I have the power to.

Fault & Blame imply you did something wrong.

You did nothing wrong. Not by having fears, and not by discussing them. There is nothing to apologize for. For all of me, you're doing pretty durn fantastic, and working really, really hard. Those are things to be proud of. Not ashamed of. Each and every time you are afraid to post, and post anyway? That's the definition of bravery. And it's a victory. :)

 

[Rumors]

Each and every time you are afraid to post, and post anyway? That's the definition of bravery. And it's a victory. :)

I agree with the word "responsibility" and feel it is something we should all own a little more. Most of all I love the above quote. It is why I posted that @Notsowild was courageous. She is tempting to change her dance just a little and step outside of her comfort zone.

 

[Teasel]

At some point in my life I realised that none of us can really understand something we've not experienced. We can still have compassion sure, but not understand.

Most of my life has been sent in dissociation too.

Rarely have I met people who understood. Very frequently I've met people who've reabused me or been cruel or blamed me or laughed or just smiled condescendingly.

The desire to reach out and be understood hasn't diminished - rather become frozen - so very much fear that again and again the same reaction.

Thanks so much for posting notsowild - Has meant a lot to me to see someone be rave enough to break through that kind of fear x

 

[Notsowild]

Please stop apologising @Notsowild..

It's a Canadian thing! Lol and what's this Hawaii trip, you and Nicolette should visit Canada. It's big and beautiful.

 

[moonbeam]

What I noticed was that all fingers pointed in the OP's direction. I didn't notice any exploration or self examination, or

Then you need to go back and reread it. There were people who agreed with her. People who offered hugs. People like myself tried to point out that there are different approaches to things, and that sometimes we feel judged when we aren't being and maybe to try to look for good intentions in the words of others. Other people expressed that they felt the same but agreed that it was them who felt that way and not anyone in the forum telling them they can't speak.

Anthony's first response was to agree there are cliques and that the forum is a social media site and mirrors the real world where not everyone likes everyone else. As long as everyone is respectful of the rules of the site.

Several people said if the OP or any of the 21 didn't agree than they should take the useful stuff and ignore the rest. Additionally some of those 21 may have liked it for her being brave enough to open up her feelings and post, not that this is that important.

There are many posts that don't point the finger at the OP. Some posts that point it gently to show that the OP took a comment that was made once and ran with that. As humans we dwell on the bad things, the negative memories and comments are the ones that stay with us the strongest. And they were trying to help her see a negative thought process and that maybe she feels more judged than she actually is.

A lot of that isn't pointing a finger at the OP. There was exploration and willingness on some levels. A lot of the thread is giving different viewpoints which is the whole point and main benefit of the forum in the first place. Well before it went off topic which happens in conversations.

Nobody is telling the OP or anyone else not to post. I've never read any malicious posts. I've read some that I thought well I would have worded that gentler but the point is fair usually.

I really need to learn to tag people. Notsowild I hope you are doing okay.

As an aside I think if you ask a friend in the real world (off forum I mean) about something and you get an unhelpful response you might think that they just don't understand and disregard it as well meaninged but not relevant. But on the forum we think others should understand (even though people experience some symptoms differently and there is always the variety of personalities) and we don't disregard it as quickly when we should. This is a generalised you, not anyone in particular.

 

[Valentino]

Over-reaction and the three common roles of victim orientation.

I don't know if anyone will get this, it's still quite a bit abstract of a theory. But I'll try anyway, My goal is to somehow combine bigger picture context, along with smaller picture perspectives within this discussion, in order to provide a more practical approach and possible way out.

Small picture: Over-reaction to a problem.
Victim perspective: Problem is feelings, behavior of people on this forum (relationships)
Persecutor perspective: Problem is all in the head (thoughts)
Rescuer perspective: Don't focus on that problem, instead focus on comfort and support (distraction)

All three perspectives have some truth in them, but also are deceptive.

Short 3 minute video describing a variation of these dynamics:

The deception (core delusion from the video) comes from the over-reaction, the actual clue is in the over-reaction.

Big picture: WHY is there an over-reaction?
Why are people falling into common victim triangle roles, approaching the problem like a life or death emergency, with survival instincts triggered? Instead of approaching with calmer responsive energy because in reality it's actually a non-threatening not-life-or-death issue that's actually being addressed.

Here comes a big paradox. Maybe the problem is that there really isn't a full on problem? What does that mean, right? Instead it is more like a non-problem, an indirect problem or a passive-problem. It's actually an emotional trigger that has been disguised as the 'cause' of the problem.

But this can be quite confusing. There is some truth and validity within each of the victim triangle perspectives: that something recent triggered negative emotions. And it's quite reasonable and arguable to make a case that any one of those 3 perspectives as the cause, and all of them can offer valid strategies to react to the trigger.

BUT, what's really responsible, the actual cause is not ANY of the 3 perspectives, the actual cause is not the trigger. The actual cause is the unresolved traumatic memory that's been triggered, causing some of those old emotions of past extreme suffering to be vividly re-experienced and re-lived (in the present moment). Some sort of dissociative type flashback that many people barely even notice. It's so very common, automatic and pervasive that it has become the new normal, it's a part of our identity that we latch onto, primarily through unconscious & socialized conditioning.

So, all of this might sound a bit woo-woo, magical, like a card trick or shell game con. And that observation also has a lot of truth in it. The unresolved memories caused by our past traumas is playing a shell game con in our lives. Triggers happen and the past is revisited, but the deceptive illusion or cognitive distortion is that these past emotional memories piggy-back onto valid truthful perspectives of current reality issues, trigger our survival mechanisms causing a largely unconscious over-reaction to minor problems. Problems that could be worked out by rational objective adults, magically and paradoxically become challenging and near impossible.

The TED* version of the victim triangle offers a way out (for the general public) by switching from Victim (problem focused) orientation to Creator (solution outcome focused) orientations:

But, for PTSD this might be very difficult to apply. Why? Because present life dramas continue to trigger life-or-death survival type over-reactions, which also de-activates higher cognitive thinking and executive function. So considering these limitations of the PTSD brain, a more practical approach might be to try to pay attention and notice these 'over-reacting' experiences more, add in the consideration that they are 'opportunities' for real life exposure therapy, and explore ways and means to more consciously 'expose' ourselves to explore and FEEL the raw emotional memories, which desensitizes and discharges the intensity in these traumatic memories, leading to help complete a more natural integration process towards healing and resocialization.

 

[greenleaf]

Hi @Valentino ... interesting! I don't think I agree that "comfort" is just a distraction, though, and the goal is to feel the raw memories in the absence of good support and comfort! For a lot of folks, who never got comforted through feelings from the traumatic incidents causing all the problems, "comfort" is not a distraction. Comfort and support are essential for some part of the brain in order to tolerate the horrible feelings. It's some sort of neurological balancing act; my sense is that a deeper brain part throws a circuit breaker if too much distress is experienced, and we dissociate/use older defenses. Or something. For myself, too much distress seems linked to feeling that I wouldn't be able to think/protect myself from threats, which were around in those years pretty often. I have seen friends comforting their children; it does seem that the kids are internalizing that over time somehow. They learn to do it for themselves but only after a lot of parental support and comfort. These parents seem to me to be people who can experience a wide range of feelings themselves and get through the pain.

Maybe for people who did have a "good-enough" childhood in terms of learning to tolerate strong negative feelings, "comfort" might be a distraction... but many of us are not structured that way (yet?) and comfort seems a prerequisite for each bit of progress on abuse-related feelings I make these days. (It's not that I have no self regulation skills or feelings, but I think I get overwhelmed by certain situations/feelings and numb out (dissociate.) Can't process the emotions if my reptile brain decides to thrown the dissociation circuit breaker, if that is what happens... feels like it might be kind of like that...

 

[Tinyflame]

Totally agree with @greenleaf 's post above.

 

[Teasel]

Me too

I like how Pete Walker descibes an emotional flashbacks and thre need for safety / comfort

http://www.pete-walker.com/flashbackManagement.htm

"A significant percentage of adults who suffered ongoing abuse or neglect in childhood suffer from Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. One of the most difficult features of this type of PTSD is extreme susceptibility to painful emotional flashbacks. Emotional flashbacks are sudden and often prolonged regressions ('amygdala hijackings') to the frightening circumstances of childhood. They are typically experienced as intense and confusing episodes of fear and/or despair - or as sorrowful and/or enraged reactions to this fear and despair. Emotional flashbacks are especially painful because the inner critic typically overlays them with toxic shame, inhibiting the individual from seeking comfort and support, isolating him in an overwhelming and humiliating sense of defectiveness.

Because most emotional flashbacks do not have a visual or memory component to them, the triggered individual rarely realizes that she is re-experiencing a traumatic time from childhood. Psychoeducation is therefore a fundamental first step in the process of helping clients understand and manage their flashbacks. Most of my clients experience noticeable relief when I explain PTSD to them. The diagnosis seems to reverberate deeply with their intuitive understanding of their suffering. When they understand that their sense of overwhelm initially arose as an instinctual response to truly traumatic circumstances, they begin to shed the awful belief that they are crazy, hopelessly oversensitive, and/or incurably defective.

Flashbacks strand clients in the feelings of danger, helplessness and hopelessness of their original abandonment, when there was no safe parental figure to go to for comfort and support. Hence, Complex PTSD is now accurately being identified by many as an attachment disorder. Flashback management therefore needs to be taught in the context of a safe relationship. Clients need to feel safe enough with the therapist to describe their humiliating experiences of a flashback, so that the therapist can help them respond more constructively to their overwhelm in the moment."