My Self And Dissociation

[shimmerz]

I was watching a video that Radise linked up to a thread. I will post it here. It kind of messed with the whole 'Structural Dissociation' theory that I and some others have been working with over the past while. I thought.

Some of us are trying to get to where the SELF actually resides. Is the ANP the SELF or is the SELF something that created the ANP? Where do the EPs go if we integrate? Do they die? Do we miss them? Does our SELF need them? It's like having separate jigsaw puzzles for each EP, ANP, and we are meant to put them together on the table called SHELF - but there is no table visible. Do we build the table? Do we look for the table (wander near and far?) Then I got thinking....and as some of you may have recognized, this can be dangerous at times.....:cautious:

What if our SELF has nothing to do with our brain at all? What if SELF is the soul (however you see the soul)? Consciousness? You know, that piece that is our intuition...the piece that knows what we should do even though we can't seem to do it because we are human and life gets in the way but we know it is right. That piece of us who is concerned about ourselves first and foremost. That piece that whispers in our head rather than screams. What if that is our SELF? And because it doesn't scream we don't attach to it?

I mean really, therapists talk about mindfulness, about meditating, about awareness. What stops us from being able to naturally fall into those places? Perhaps the screaming, ranting, raving, hissy fitting EP's? Perhaps our ANP's that are too busy focusing on what we 'need to do'? Maybe those are like the attention seeking kids in the family. And then there is the quiet kid, who always gets passed over unless we take the time to be quiet with them, to relate on their level, to make them feel just as important?

The guy in the video speaks about not being able to see our own eyes. This is true. The irony of that is ridiculous. We could never see the things that allow us to see if we didn't have mirrors or some way of reflecting the image back to us. It doesn't mean they aren't there. So what of our SELVES? Maybe our SELVES are right there - but we just can't see it.....because we see spend our time observing, participating in, attempting to win the war in our brains.

What if we just need to listen a little harder and rather than fighting the EP's and trying to regain the ANP's we simply need to be nurturing that little voice inside of us that is consciousness, our soul, whatever you want to call it?

Idk, call me crazy....I am okay with that. :shy:

https://www.myptsd.com/threads/you-are-not-ptsd.52681/#post-842045

 

[Born to Run]

Maybe helpful: there is an active thread that has similarities to what you are bringing forward: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/where-does-the-younger-part-version-of-me-go-if-i-recover.52742/

 

[shimmerz]

Thanks Born. I think I am trying to get more to the 'self' rather than discuss the littles or parts in this thread. Maybe I didn't put that across well enough.

 

[scout86]

You guys and your parts! :confused:

I haven't watched the video yet,and have a hard time remembering what all those initials stand for. My T keeps talking about "parts" and I keep rolling my eyes. But I think I sort of get what he's talking about.

All this ANP/EP stuff.......I wonder if you're not taking it a bit too literally?

"What is the SELF?" is a huge, complicated philosophical discuss, is it not? I'd say your "Self" is the sum total of what makes you who you are. Maybe, at it's core, it's something you might call "the soul" and others of other backgrounds might have similar terms for. Where does it reside, exactly? I'm not sure anyone has a definitive answer for that. I think that's somewhere in the fog where the lines between faith and science and philosophy all merge.

The way I understand this "parts" stuff right now....... The way my T uses the term it's just that we have lots of different aspects to our personality and we vary in how aware we are of them at any given time. "ANP" & "EP" are names some people give to some of those parts. I think it's just a way of expressing an idea though. I. personally, doubt that they have a physical existence. (Although, now that I think about it, my T DID tell me recently that he believes some day they'll be able to detect the presence of this stuff on brain scans....)

@shimmerz I think all those "parts" are just that. PARTS. Add them all together and you get you. (Or whoever the parts belong to.) But I think it's a metaphor and not to be taken TOO literally.

 

[Eleanor]

What if we just need to listen a little harder and rather than fighting the EP's and trying to regain the ANP's we simply need to be nurturing that little voice inside of us that is consciousness, our soul, whatever you want to call it?

I think this comes very close. EP's (and ANP) shouldn't be fought. They should be nurtured. They are systems that need integrating and growing up so that they can do what they need to and we need them to to be whole human beings. I like the idea of the SELF (tho it is not part of SD theory) as the "consciousness" that we cultivate in mindfulness. I think it is a "higher" (in the sense of later developing and more complex) part of us. AND I think it really really needs the cultivating that mindfulness (practicing being aware without being attached to thinking, just watching thinking happen...) is super helpful for being able to stay present with EP and ANP (who also needs help, because the ANP is so often phobic of the EP's and so can't really help them out all that much. My ANP is more or less fearless and heavily CARE oriented so the idea of nurturing the EPs doesn't flip me out.

The EP's don't "go" anywhere. They stay put, right where they are. They just develop so that instead of being stuck in over the top emotional response and rigid behavioral responses they can process old experiences and calibrate more effectively to the present situation(s). Where does the toddler "go" when a child grows up? No place. They just... grow up.

(Although, now that I think about it, my T DID tell me recently that he believes some day they'll be able to detect the presence of this stuff on brain scans....)

They are starting...
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/27253.pdf
"
Dissociative disorders have been linked to psychological trauma and stress in a variety of cultures. The advent of functional brain imaging techniques and newer sophisticated structural brain imaging methods has considerably improved and will continue to further our understanding of the neurobiological underpinnings of these conditions. The use of these techniques has shown that environmentally-driven alterations of cognition, perception, behavior and self-related processing are accompanied by metabolic and probably even structural brain changes. These findings have called into questioning the strict traditional dichotomy between neurological-organic and psychiatric-mind based illnesses and prompted several researchers and clinicians from both psychiatry and neurology fields to advocate for moving beyond this dichotomy, by abandoning the organic-functional distinction from formal classification systems or everyday medical jargon. "

 

[Hope4Now]

I'm looking forward to watching the video. The consciousness is similar to how I imagine self.

I am sitting in er waiting to be transported to hospital 2 and admitted. My consciousness/self energy just wasn't up to the job of leading anymore I guess. Needs
More exercise
And experience

 

[Go Hungry]

I think this strays very far into one's philosophy of life and existence, in a perhaps inextricable way. I can tell you what the self means to me, but I would think that it is as individuals as a fingerprint. Each of us understands reality in a different manner, not so much physical (because we have science for that) but in a mental way. The self to me is really a manifestation of the Great Tao, which is a mindless force from which all things are born, and to which all things return. But that is philosophy. And to be 'one with the Tao' is strikingly similar to what you define as mindfulness. No thoughts, no emotions really, nothingness. Its is staggeringly beautiful.

As for the physical side, I think our consciousness is really just a trick of the brain. It is where our memories are stored, and those memories are what make us who we are. I don't want to go dark and scare anyone, but my grandmother's Alzheimer's disease has all but erased her memories. She is no longer the horrid abuser that she used to be. Nowadays, she's just a lonely confused animal (sorry, dark).

If this is true, then our brains and nervous systems are a very big deal. And those physical systems effect us so much. My endocrine system is out of whack, therefore my behaviour is out of whack sometimes. Some of my brain structures are altered from that of a normal human being, which effects even my ability to form and retain memories. I think this is a key part of our 'selves' as we experience them.

I'm not saying that our brains are all that we are, just perhaps interfaces with our spirits that are of tremendous impact.

 

[shimmerz]

I guess I used a model of consciousness that was of 'Higher Self', which falls into my spiritual beliefs. I feel like there is a consciousness out there for me that is not affected by embodiment. I learned to get out of my coma like states by following a silver cord to it, asking it for more energy and peace and then making my way back down to my embodied self. It worked for me with much practice. Each time it was a little bit easier to get back to myself when I went into one of my catatonic states.

I can't say whether it was the belief in such or whether there is actually a Higher Self that I was going to but there came a time where I didn't give a damn. I just knew it was working. I know it will sound 'out there' to most but that SELF bit really played a part in envisioning a me that was not affected by my symptoms that I could draw strength from. I don't think one has to be a spiritual believer to attach to whatever feels best for them.

The more I worked with the vision of the unaffected SELF the more I brought it into my daily life and then my 'littles' or 'parts' didn't scare me so much. I took them to that SELF with me. A refuge so to speak. A safe place for both to merge, if only for a while. This man in the video speaks about the war inside between the SELF and our brains. I know I got so absorbed in 'thinking it through' and this is exactly what he warns against.

Anyway, I just thought I would throw it out there for anyone who felt so inclined, to give it thought.

 

[shimmerz]

[DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/10416/"]@shimmerz[/DLMURL] I think all those "parts" are just that. PARTS. Add them all together and you get you. (Or whoever the parts belong to.) But I think it's a metaphor and not to be taken TOO literally.

I would so like to agree Scout, but I have to say some of these 'parts' have a very strong self destruct vision for this body of mine. That means they aren't just 'parts' to me. I think it comes with the early developmental trauma. Not sure, but that is my guess. Those components or facets of myself are very distinct from 'me' as I see it.

 

[scout86]

but I have to say some of these 'parts' have a very strong self destruct vision for this body of mine

Yeah. I actually brought that up with my T. Mr. :All This Stuff Started Out as Adaptive". Even the apparently self destructive stuff? I vehemently disagreed that that kind of "part" could actually BE a part of a person. He stood his ground. He's totally convinced. I'm kind of tending to agree with him now. Let's say, in his line of reasoning. some "parts" are a bit confused about what's useful and what's not. But then, little kids can have some kind of interesting ideas on the same subject, right? And you can go a lot of directions with something like "You'd be better off dead!" (Speaking of death, did you go to the Dr yet? How are you doing?)

I have a belief in a higher power and at least a suspicion that there is "something" that it "us" that transcends our physical existence. I'm not sure, exactly, what it is. I kind of like your idea, of that being a kind of "safe place". I have some personal issues with the whole idea of "safe". (That being, if it looks like it might be safe, it's probably a TRICK.)

I'll be honest, this whole "parts" thing kind of freaks me out. I'm not sure why. It does it in a way that probably means something, which is sort of interesting, but I haven't figured out what to make of it yet.

 

[shimmerz]

Even the apparently self destructive stuff?

Yes, when there seems to be no way out I think the default is to hit the red button. Except there is no red button - so I tend to be a ditch seeker, no idea why. Just crawl up in a little place and die, be that a sweltering car, a ditch in the winter, an red ant hill - all will get the job done if I wait long enough. And I am definitely in an 'altered state' during those times. Some part of me is watching, and telling the part to smarten up - to get the F* up! But alas, this part waits for someone to rescue her. *heavy sigh*. Until I learned this older adaptive method. Kind of a mixture between my little self and my higher self. Together we got it worked out thank god.

But then, little kids can have some kind of interesting ideas on the same subject, right? And you can go a lot of directions with something like "You'd be better off dead!"

Yes. I am an odd one. I have this really super logical side and then I have this spiritual side, which I get angry at a lot. Anyway, I feel like the little part is a part that had it's life or freedom or whatever threatened (or perception of such). That shit the reptilian brain takes care of. Logic doesn't really come into play. So I feel like as the person grows, this part can't grow with it because it has learned that if ABC happens that logic won't help and assigns it to the reptilian brain to take care of. The reptilian brain thinks nothing, just reacts. That is what I feel like a 'part' is. It takes a safe place for that part to grow. That is what I attempt to use my SELF for. My unaffected soul (or whatever) that I have spent much time nurturing and trusting.

I have some personal issues with the whole idea of "safe".

Safe is what this shit is all about, I have found for myself, anyway. A really hard concept for most of us.....

That being, if it looks like it might be safe, it's probably a TRICK.

lol. Yes. My version of safe now is what I make. Nobody else can make that for me. When one wasn't even safe in the womb that is quite a challenge, so I had to go farther than the womb. That would be my 'Higher Self'.

kind of freaks me out. I'm not sure why.

Well, I can say for me, it was because it felt like there were imposters in my brain. It rocked my entire sense of myself until I realized that my real self was something that transcended my brain. Take my brain out of it and cut right to my soul, that is a whole different story. So yes, it is really freaky.

but I haven't figured out what to make of it yet.

I totally get that Scout and it is perfectly okay if parts is not your thing. For me it resonated. I have been able to work with it really well. It was a bit of a learning curve though.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this. :hug::hug::hug:

 

[shimmerz]

I just wanted to say as well that the 'parts' concept has really helped me in relationships as well to understand that if I have an issue with someone it isn't so black and white as I used to think. It may be a piece of that person that is out of character with who I believe they are 'by and large'. It allows me to have issue with that 'piece' of them but still be able to accept them in general as a person. If I have parts why can't they?