How voluntary is your dissociation?

[gorgonzola]

In describing some of my experiences to my T, they noted that it was "unusual" for dissociation to have a voluntary component.

I can't do that from scratch, but if stress levels get close enough to involuntary dissociation then I find I can consciously choose to jump the rest of the way. "f*ck this shit, I'm out of here" is how I have phrased it with depersonalization.

I've only actually practiced this with derealization, so maybe that's a transferable skill. My memory falls short of being complete and reliable when it comes to trauma time, but what is there does record that some major dissociation back then was a conscious choice, so maybe that's where I get it from.

I'd say I can jump the remaining gap when I'm about 80% of the way to involuntary depersonalization, and about 50% when it comes to derealization.

What are everyone else's experiences, if i may be so bold as to ask?

 

[Movingforward10]

What are everyone else's experiences, if i may be so bold as to ask?

Gosh, I wish it was voluntary! Many a time I thought it would come in handy if only I could switch it on!

So, nope, for me it isn't voluntary but also I wasn't even aware it was a 'thing' in the first place. So: no awareness = understandable there is no control about it.

How do you switch it on voluntarily, if you don't mind me asking back?

 

[Rose White]

Not voluntary at all

 

[PlainJane]

Not.

ETA: I have done ketamine, which can thow you into dissociation and that was voluntary. I actually don't understand how it's voluntary. If I decide(I say that loosely as my attention is problematic) I am bored I can day dream or problem solve, but that's a different beast.

 

[Midnightmoon]

Voluntary dissociation would make my life 100 time easier, alas nope, it's very much not in my control

 

[RainbowSearchParty]

Dissociation is a scale. For me, it’s very much involuntary at the moment. But I do think the idea that one can ground oneself OUT of dissociation means that it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that someone could do the opposite.

I think it’s a bit oranges and apples to compare dissociation, sometimes. Are you talking the absolute amnesiac dissociation of DID where people lose years of their lives to black holes, or just the disconnect that might happen in depersonalization? I’m not trying to create a hierarchy or scale here, just to say that the two experiences are wildly different.

 

[gorgonzola]

How do you switch it on voluntarily, if you don't mind me asking back?

With that inquiry you made me go and have a good think about it. I'm afraid though that I don't have much that might be helpful to tell you.

Derealization is in itself a minor trigger for me, so past a certain point it takes very little to start the ball rolling that winds up with an epinephrine jolt that brings me out of it again. Concentrating on stress and derealization (much the same thing in my case) pushes things in that direction. My only bout of dissociating motor impulses was due to derealization sneaking up on me (so not pushing it consciously).

Pushing that last bit towards depersonalization? That's more like answering the question "how do you move your left eyebrow?" Be keenly aware of everything about your own mental state when you do and when you don't depersonalize and experiment - though that's not exactly straightforward to do in a moment that's so stressful you're on the verge of depersonalization, of course. Conceivably what my brain is doing is providing an after-the-fact rationalization (*) and I'd have no way of telling the difference, but I don't believe so.

(*) Brains love doing that sort of thing, making you think that you wrapped your fingers around a ball because you felt it land in the palm of your hand when the ball is moving far too fast for the nerve impulses to make even a small fraction of the journey required for that to be true. I don't generally trust my brain to tell me the truth.

n.b. I do have an obscure class of trauma and a weird presentation in general, which begins with a delayed expression north of three decades. I told my T to add this one to the pile.

 

[gorgonzola]

I think it’s a bit oranges and apples to compare dissociation, sometimes. Are you talking the absolute amnesiac dissociation of DID where people lose years of their lives to black holes, or just the disconnect that might happen in depersonalization? I’m not trying to create a hierarchy or scale here, just to say that the two experiences are wildly different.

I intended my question to be open-ended about the kind of dissociation, since a voluntary component to any kind of dissociation seems to not provide many relevant hits as far as google is concerned.

"Dissociation" as a term feels wildly overloaded by covering an enormous breadth of different experiences, so I try to only use it when I intend to be as general as possible.

 

[Dark.Green.Feathers]

Not voluntary but sometimes I can steer it in specific directions if other factors are right (eg. “going somewhere” in my inner “world”) but that’s less so deciding to do that, and more so certain doors being open when I’m already dissociating, and within that habitually trying to get somewhere.

And I will voluntarily do nothing about dissociation sometimes, instead of trying to ground myself.

This is for “fading out” style dissociation.
If I feel a “switching” type dissociation coming on, sometimes I’ll assist it by giving into the pull to go somewhere safe and dark. I often get drowsy with it and a strong urge to hide away/lie down. It happens quicker when I do that but that isn’t voluntary either because it’s already in motion. If I don’t I become much less able to function anyway, because of the dissociation.

 

[Sues]

I can relate to this. Most of the time, almost always, it's not voluntary. I have no control over it. I don't even know it's happening until it happens.

But, on the very rare occasion that I can feel myself "drifting" for lack of a better word, I can let myself sink the rest of the way into the abyss.

It's only happened a couple of times, and I try to fight it now.

 

[In the weeds]

I love a lot of the responses here. For me it seems to be different at different times.
Sometimes me is gone and I didn't see it coming. Those I can't voluntarily get out of. After my first flashback it happened for two weeks. I had blacked out big chunks of my childhood and never realized it until the flashbacks started because of something that brought it on. Then it came back in floods and now and then a new one happens.
Other times I can feel me slipping away and I say to my family member H who I live with, "I need to get my mind on something." She'll say Do you want to do this.. or that.. and I'll say no. I realize it's because it's too late and I'm actually just busy looking for the off ramp.
A week ago something very bizarre happened and I fought flashbacks all week and was able to stay me each time. I knew it was coming and didn't know if I'd be able to get back or not. But I was able to come back before slipping away completely. I'm doing better now.
H understands. She also has CPTSD. Some overlaps with mine. But at first when it starts happening she'll think I'm mad at her. I can't make eye contact, can't hold a conversation, etc. I feel bad deep inside but know I can't do anything about it until it's over.
Hers manifests as rage, crying screaming.. with me, I disassociate.

 

[Ecdysis]

But I do think the idea that one can ground oneself OUT of dissociation means that it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that someone could do the opposite.

That seems logical to me too. And that both "skills" are quite hard to learn.

I have Aspergers in addition to PTSD and people on the autism spectrum often do "stimming" in stress situations - highly repetitive movements etc. that I guess help evoke a mild trance/ dissociative state? So I guess that's another way of actively pushing yourself into that kind of state?