When Are Friends Enabling A Disorder?

[candor]

Some of us (and I certainly would never speak for all) need to have life become difficult in order to change. Some people view a personality disorder as if the illness or symptoms were a dysfunction that should not be tolerated by others. Friends that are too understanding are seen as enablers. People who have tolerated or coddled a dysfunction make sufferers weaker and less willing to make the hard changes that are needed in order to function in a healthier way.

I am quite conflicted when it comes to several boundaries that I would never tolerate with other friends. It seems to me that just in order to earn the trust of being in the category of friend and to pull the person out of isolation, I have had to do my share of giving up on my boundaries. Three of the hardest things for me have been the push-pull dance with at least a weeks break and once two months of no contact, the person not owning or accepting the fact that they are being perceived as angry and the person's lack of ability to keep appointments (including last minute cancellations).

I am still conflicted as to what constitutes a reasonable demand. Who gets to decide what behaviour is changeable or not? If the person with a personality disorder seems to be making an effort to change while constantly failing then what? It just seems wrong to insist. On the other hand, the last thing I want is to be an enabler. Should I perhaps ask him which of those three boundaries he would be willing to work with? I could really use some opinions here as I try to stay on with someone who is possibly BPD and strongly AvPD.

 

[Riot]

I wish I could help, that doesn't sound easy. I was trying to figure out what you meant, but I think since I don't know much about the situation, it may have come off a bit ambiguous.

 

[Lucycat]

This is very complicated.

Let me try and change it into the situation whereby it is a physical disorder rather than a mental one.

If your friend/partner had type 1 Diabetes for example, There are some things this person needs to do to remain healthy, which includes tough decisions about diet, exercise and medication. If this person refused their medication you would likely intervene and insist. However if they sneak the occasional ice cream you might give them some leeway. If they take absolutely no exercise there is perhaps little you could do about it. Where in this scenario, would you see yourself as the 'enabler' - for buying the ice creams or for 'allowing' the person to not exercise? All of these failures in self-care could lead to serious illness (even death) and longterm complications. Failure in self care could have huge impact on the partner. But who is responsible?

In my opinion mental health should be treated the same. One has a responsibility to maintain one's health to the best of one's ability. My partner can encourage and support me and it is healthy to discuss how much help is needed. However I cannot change the person that I am, but I can make effort to improve when my behaviour slips below what I expect of myself. If my partner insisted that I change I would resist as that implies that it is not me that he wants to be with, but the person that he thinks I can become. Therefore I and the relationship is destined to failure.

I am not sure if I am answering your question or if I am making sense.

 

[Riot]

If my partner insisted that I change I would resist as that implies that it is not me that he wants to be with, but the person he thinks I can become. Therefore I and the relationship is destined to failure.

I think this is a slippery slope in language and meaning, although I think I understand what you're saying for all intents and purposes. Sometimes, I think people are calling a change for a behavior or attitude, and are actually meaning something else. I try to assess intent before I react highly negatively, although it doesn't always work, heh!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

If the person with a personality disorder seems to be making an effort to change while constantly failing then what? It just seems wrong to insist. On the other hand, the last thing I want is to be an enabler.

Should I perhaps ask him which of those three boundaries he would be willing to work with? I could really use some opinions here as I try to stay on with someone who is possibly BPD and strongly AvPD.

Coming from someone, me, whom has BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder...often confused with Bipolar) Borderlines feel emotions in extremes, most fear abandonment and often push people away to 'leave them before they leave me', most crave understanding and tend to over explain in an attempt to gain understanding; just speaking from my expeirence.

Boundries are needed in any relationship however just because it seems the person isnt trying to change doesnt mean they arent. Theres a part of me that 'fights' help or feels the need to 'defend' myself when its not necessary BUT i am trying VERY hard to get better and I do listen and churn everyone's thoughts around and around in my head constantly.

So i wouldnt classify any of that as 'enabling' and actually dislike that word. As long as the person shows some sign of wanting to better themselves, i wouldnt state any of it as 'enabling' or even if they arent, they still need a friend.

Not sure if any of this is helpful or not but for whatever its worth, thats my 2 cents.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

However I cannot change the person that I am, but I can make effort to improve when my behaviour slips below what I expect of myself. If my partner insisted that I change I would resist as that implies that it is not me that he wants to be with, but the person that he thinks I can become. Therefore I and the relationship is destined to failure.

I love this!

 

[EveHarrington]

I view some boundaries as absolute. For example, "if you hit me/physically abuse me, I will leave and never look back". I see other boundaries as a bit more flexible that can vary from person to person. For example, certain behaviors I will accept from close family members and close friends, but I won't accept in those who aren't in my inner circle (more distant family members and friends I'm not as close to).

I'm not sure of your exact relationship with this person. Is it possible to move this person from close friend to more casual friend? I mean instead of being a person you hang out with, they move to being a friend you just talk to. I think it's important to give people an opportunity to change, but at the same time I don't think I'd be able to handle a friend who couldn't take responsibility for their emotions and was disrespectful in constantly cancelling on me. Are you sure that you're not trying to save this person? Is it possible that you feel guilty for having boundaries with someone with a disorder because others have removed themselves from your life because of your symptoms?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I want to reply specifically to a few things; again, just from having BPD myself and from my own experience:

It seems to me that just in order to earn the trust of being in the category of friend and to pull the person out of isolation,

Ive had a few people 'pull' me out of isolation. I am terrified of people and I had to feel I could first trust the person and second know that where we are going there isnt too many people. Maybe this person has that same fear? Maybe help them work through that? Or understand their fear? If thats whats it is.

I have had to do my share of giving up on my boundaries.

This, in my opinion you should never do. Now personally I ask myself, and my therapist whom doesnt see through my 'trauma filter' "is this a reasonable boundry? How is the boundry serving me and my personal & emotional saftey?" And if its not reasonable I make the necessary adjustments to this boundry. Adjustments to a boundry are necessary at times but to 'give up' on the boundry; unless completely unreasonable, shouldnt be done. The boundry is there to keep you physically & emotionally safe and as a friend i would never ask someone to bend a boundry for me. But that being said, i also have my own issues & fears that im working on so there has to be give and take on both sides of the relationship.

the person not owning or accepting the fact that they are being perceived as angry and the person's lack of ability to keep appointments (including last minute cancellations).

The person may not see their actions or words as angry; it may be for them a self protection; but the person needs to be able to become self aware of their emotions, words & actions and how it affects others. And certianly should take responsiblity for it. But it sounds to me as an expectation. I would make it known of my boundry of anger, outbursts etc and make it known that if that happens, you wont be around them, will leave or whatever.

If it were a friend of mine, i would advise the DBT workbook I have as emotional regulation and distress tolerance are two things in that book very specifically helps Borderlines.

Cancelations last min are a bit rude, but maybe its their fear/anxiety over taking them? Such as my fear of people would. Since this friend has to be pulled out of isolation i suspect that might what it is?

I would make it known to them that canceling on me last min affects me to, how it affects me and if they feel they cant do/come to whatever plan to let me know more in advance?

Boundries are important but its also imporant to look at those boundries and adjust them if they are not reasonable and i would make them known to this friend, advise them anger wont be tolerated and advise of the DBT workbook but if this friend really has no intrest in bettering themselves or take responsibity for their wrong doing and respect your reasonable boundries; then i would second guess our friendship.

Not sure if that explains what i said ealier any better or if it even helps.

 

[shimmerz]

not owning or accepting

This would be a big one to me. Ownership should not be transferable. If your friend doesn't own the anger (etc) then who does?

 

[candor]

The person may not see their actions or words as angry; it may be for them a self protection; but the person needs to be able to become self aware of their emotions, words & actions and how it affects others.

Thanks all for your replies. LFS, your second post really hits home. If I tell my friend that I met my ex and that he lashed out at me, he will tell me "that is so unacceptable". When I then ask but don't you do that as well? He says "yes". But more often he says "Its just the way I talk. I am not angry." (Here I feel that I fail to point his anger out as I freeze or dissociate.) What Is also happening without a doubt is that as soon as he feels in anyway criticized (Ex. if I say "My friends are better at controlling their anger and I feel you still need to learn this skill."), he will either "kick me out" or "rush for the door" and leave. At times, he seems very aware and at times he is dissociating. And sometimes if feels as if he has altered egos but I know that this is rare. Its just that he is inconsistent but seem very sincere at the time he states things. We both are very intolerant to even the smallest white lie.

Theres a part of me that 'fights' help or feels the need to 'defend' myself when its not necessary BUT i am trying VERY hard to get better and I do listen and churn everyone's thoughts around and around in my head constantly.

He says that it is unreasonable of me to even bring up the cancellations and lateness. I told him that I could easily document that he does that 90% of the time and if he still thought of it as unreasonable. So I get punished with a "talk to you in a weeks time." So how can I set a boundary "Be on time or dont cancel" if it is his way of testing whether I think that he is worth the effort and won't abandon him?

We both have had abandonment issues but he hides his fear of it well. He has acquaintenences and no friends. He knows I want intimacy and closeness. The challenge is to get him to stay with me more than 3 hours. In 6 months, we have had at most 6 sleepovers and no matter how great it was, it ends in anger so that he can go in hiding again. I try to get him to just quietly watch a movie or listen to tv but he prefers to be in cafes and public places. Maybe to keep me safe or to avoid intimacy. I am careful not to demand but when he did get the fear that he was loosing me he almost moved in for two days. You would think someone threw the kitty into the bathtub. (No disrespect out there. Its just that if I dont laugh I will maybe cry.) He was gone before he came. This will repeat and rinse as it is classic Avoidance Personality disorder. Apparently he holds on to the right to dissappear a week with dear life and as I have lots going on in my life I manage fine. It just is tiring to be in the position where I am expected to initiate the contact so that he can feel "the love". All I can say if that I feel he tries but he has a long way to go. The usual pattern is that I initiate the contac but he decides if and when we see each other. I've told him that I do not want to cancel my dates with people who faithfully keep their appointments when he finds it so easy to cancel at last minute.

 

[candor]

If it were a friend of mine, i would advise the DBT workbook I have as emotional regulation and distress tolerance are two things in that book very specifically helps Borderlines.

From what I have read, BPD is no picnic and some T's find it challenging to build up any trust as their intentions are constantly questioned. I will certainly see if I can get him the book in danish. I have been told that his diagnosis is no one's business and although I think that he may have softened a bit up, I am sure it will be a difficult subject to bring up and the book may offend him.

I recently showed him a bunch of certifications I have in Psychotherapy and my BA in Psych. He took it well but I still fear that it may have opened a lot of fear of my wanting to treat him. He knows the work has to be done by him. I get told all the time that I talk like a T by him and others. I have no idea why it would bug anyone. I just know I don't do chit chat and small talk. I don't take money for sessions. I don't apologize for who I am or think in terms of saving or not saving. I've always been an empat. A T doesn't get personal. I get very personal. I got a bigger social circle than I can manage. I befriend a lot of people who are usually not befriended by anyone. I guess that makes me a suspect. I am truely humbled by how much I have learned by some and helped by some who I thought I was helping. It is always a give and take and safety first experience. People heal themselves but there is no harm in showing what has worked for oneself. I have had my share of disorders and symptoms to qualify myself to an opinion as to what it takes to recover. I have lived 60 years and in three different countries so I know that culture dictates a lot in terms of what behaviours are tolerated and which are not. I have a strong opinion that many T's would become better at what they do if they spent time reading here. It may be an unusual place to create intimacy but we humans crave it or we wouldn't be here.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

If I tell my friend that I met my ex and that he lashed out at me, he will tell me "that is so unacceptable". When I then ask but don't you do that as well? He says "yes". But more often he says "Its just the way I talk. I am not angry." (Here I feel that I fail to point his anger out as I freeze or dissociate.)

I think the biggest difference is gonna be gender, most guys hide their feelings & fears; or try to explain them away.

My explosions as what seemed to others is absolutly nothing, was why I was forced into therapy. My first question is, is he in therapy? If not, you can use that. I'll explain later.

My explosions were/do happen for a reason, it was pure anxiety and it was my past purging itself out of me. They started in the State i lived in where i had my accident, exploding on my neighor but got VERY bad. My dad stated if i was going to stay living with them i must go to therapy.

He may be hiding it, but he may not realize its anger (having BPD i still do a ton of things that im completely unaware of) BUT you have your own issues. If he's not therapy, theres a few ways you can use it. Here, you can state to him it is anger, how its anger this is what it is (name it all off, be specific), and this is what it does to you. You can set that boundry by telling him straight up you arent leaving him but you cant take the anger and (if you're in therapy) you know a great therapist but that if he is yelling or whatever what it does to you, how it effects you and you cant and wont deal with that. For your own emotional protection, health, and journey, you will need to leave, walk away etc. And do so, telling him that he is showing anger by doing XYZ and you cant handle it (nor should you have to) and must leave now but "im not leaving you, im simply getting anyway from the anger because it does XYZ to me and for my own emotional protection, i cant be around when you are like this". Something like that. And i would continue with "if you dont seek out some therapy, i wont be able to contiue spending time with you" and can add what im gonna reply to a bit later.

My parents did, they said "in order to continue living with us, you will need to seek therapy." I had no control over it, had no clue why i did it, and felt so bad afterwards to id go in the bathroom and cut (i suspect thats the gender difference though).

Having BPD, I do a ton of things a have no clue im doing it or that its anger. I can see that, but you have your own emotion protection so you need to set a clear boundry there in my opinion. And it wasnt until someone said "in order to stay here you need to seek out therapy" calmly to me in a time i wasnt exploding and then my step mom went with me to her MD whom refered me to my psychristist is how it all started.

If he has a therapist, tell him he needs to work on it in therapy but the boundry stull applies; im not leaving you but i cant be around because this is what it does to me.

What Is also happening without a doubt is that as soon as he feels in anyway criticized (Ex. if I say "My friends are better at controlling their anger and I feel you still need to learn this skill."), he will either "kick me out" or "rush for the door" and leave. At times, he seems very aware and at times he is dissociating. And sometimes if feels as if he has altered egos but I know that this is rare. Its just that he is inconsistent but seem very sincere at the time he states things. We both are very intolerant to even the smallest white lie.

That i think is likely a 'leave them before they leave me' thing. One of my 2 triggers ive identified is when i feel someone is telling me why im a bad or horrible person, in my mind. I can take construtive cristisim all day long but if it has a hint of being not constructive then it triggers me.

Like for instance, using him, if someone sits down and calmly says 'when you say this or do this, this is how that makes me feel', im cool with that; however if someone, especially if already anxiety being high 'you do this and you do that' that sets me off.

So thats why i feel that while in a calm moment set the boundry by trying to think 'be as gentle as possible'; not to bow down to his behavior but keep in mind he may not realize what he is even dlong. Very gentle in a calm moment, 'you do XYZ (being sure to be specific) and it makes me feel this way when you do, it scares me etc, and i cant be around when you do that for that reason. Im probably repeating myself, sorry if i am. Just want to let you know, try not to blame, try to be as gentle and constructive as possible. Also stay away from dramtic type of words. Try to think to yourself, gentle words. And he probably is inconsistant because he's unaware at times and sincere because he really wants to stop doing it. Its very not fun for him either, i know its not for me.

So how can I set a boundary "Be on time or dont cancel" if it is his way of testing whether I think that he is worth the effort and won't abandon him?

By telling him, gentle words, how it effects you. Be specific, in non-shirnk term (i sneak peeked at your other reply ;) i'll get to that), what he does and what it does to do, you are out the money for tickets, you have to change your entire evening when you had already gotten ready etc. Tell him, im not putting you down but this effects me too and you need to let me know more in advance or if you feel you wont me able to go then let me know you dont think you can do this activity.


In respect of time im gonna answer without quoting. Intamacy may end in anger due to his past? His fear and aelf protection comes out in anger. He hides it well because he's male. Make sure to set boundries by using non-dramatic, non-shrink words and state his specific behaviors without blaming, say what it does to you, and set that boundry that if he's angery, yell etc, then you will have to leave due to what it does to you. If he continues to cancel last min because of how it effects you, you're gonna stop making plans with him due to what it does to you or how you feel. Remind him that friendship is a give and take on both ends, make him aware that he may not know he does things but he does.

I dont know if its avoidance person disorder as BPD avoids intamacy due to fear, anxiety etc from a past abuse.

Being in public likely is his way of "they cant hurt me in public"; not sure but it sounds like he was sexually abused as a child and as a guy he does things different then i as a female does but boundries do need to me set, just will work better by using non-blaming gentle words and state how it effects you and then set your boundry "i will leave or walk away" and "i will stop making plans with you but i want to be with you, be your friend, i like you, do things with you" etc.

Getting better is on him and if he's not in therapy USE IT; its the only reason im in therapy.

BPD is not a picnic, its a roller coaster of emotions and then doing things and having obsolutly not clue you are doing them. I can give you the link of my book but its an English verison. You can see on amazon if it comes in different langauages. Let me know if you want the link.

Bring it up "hey another friend of mine has BPD and she found that this book really helped her. I thought maybe it could help you feel better" something like that.

Sorry, i tend to talk too much and i am trying to hurry to get in the shower for work

Shirk talk is ANNOYING, dont shrink talk.

He likely has no friends, but you, do to his issues and his fears and anxiety. I also have no friends.

Just remember, no dramtic words, i can be specific if you want specifics, no shrink talk (not saying dont be yourself, just dont sound so clinical) and set the boundry in a calm moment, when you do this (non blaming, non dramtic, gentle wording) then this is how it makes me feel and i have to protect my emtional well being and my healing so if you do this, and i feel this, im going to leave, walk away, not make plans with you etc. Wrap it up with i know a great therapist, or i really want to remain friends with you because of a list of great qualities and im not leaving you, im setting my own boundries. And state that word boundries and state that all relationships have healthy boundries.

I hope that helps and makes sense. Sorry for the rushed reply at the end.